Battleground Rebalancing, Another Look

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Ashiel
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Battleground Rebalancing, Another Look

#1 » Post by Ashiel » 10 Dec 2012 08:42

Continued From: http://www.truewow.org/forum/viewtopic. ... =32#p91453
Ashiel wrote:There is quite literally no downside to improving the balance and quality of battlegrounds. There is only gain to be had from it, and it can lure fresh new players to the server. The fact that this server has BGs from 10-79 is already a huge mark in its favor compared to others. Going the extra mile would only make TrueWoW stand out more prominently.
Perhaps a stacking invisible buff similar to the Paladin buff Blessing of Kings. I'm not sure how difficult it would be to code (I'm good at gameplay-theory but my coding skills are poor), but if you could make a +10% non-dispellable stats buff, apply the buffs on arrival in the BGs, make them last until death, and re-apply the buffs when they revive, and make the buffs vanish upon leaving the BG, you could make it fairly invisible.
The buff would be applied based on the second number in the character's level range.
X0 = 9 buffs (+90% statistics)
X1 = 8 buffs (+80% statistics)
X2 = 7 buffs (+70% statistics)
X3 = 6 buffs (+60% statistics)
X4 = 5 buffs (+50% statistics)
X5 = 4 buffs (+40% statistics)
X6 = 3 buffs (+30% statistics)
X7 = 2 buffs (+20% statistics)
X8 = 1 buffs (+10% statistics)
X9 = 0 buffs (+00% statistics)
Now higher level characters would have a little more of an advantage (they likely have slightly better gear, and their spells/skills are more advanced), but this would be a huge leap in the effectiveness of a lower level character in the BGs in a given bracket. At the very least it would allow you to not be one-shot and actually contribute tactically (the increase in statistics would cause an increase in things like evasion %s, damage reduction, and crit %, offsetting some of the handicap).
As an example, here are some statistics from my own characters with the hypothetical +% mods.
12th Level Paladin
Str 36 || +70% = 61
Agi 24 || +70% = 40
Sta 35 (33+2) || +70% = 59
Int 29 (28+1) || +70% = 49
Spi 31 || +70% = 52
HP 286 || +Increased Stamina = 526

16th Level Warrior
Str 49 (45+4) || +30% = 63
Agi 31 (31+1) || +30% = 40
Sta 44 (40+4) || +30% = 57
Int 22 || +30% = 28
Spi 27 || +30% = 35
Hp 411 || +Increased Stamina = 541

Level 19 Warrior
Str 56 (49+7) || +0%
Agi 33 || +0%
Sta 70 (44+26) || +0%
Int 23 || +0%
Spi 28 || +0%
Hp 703 || +0%

Comparing the 19th Level Warrior to the 12th Level Paladin
Hit Points: Warrior 703 || Paladin 526 (natural 286)
Str: Warrior 57 || Paladin 63 (natural 36)
Agi: Warrior 33 || Paladin 40 (natural 24)
Sta: Warrior 70 || Paladin 59 (natural 35)
Int: Warrior 23 || Paladin 49 (natural 29) (low stat for warriors)
Spi: Warrior 28 || Paladin 52 (natural 31) (low stat for warriors)

The net result is a good matchup. The warrior has a clear advantage on the Paladin, but in this case the warrior is wearing better gear appropriate to his level (a few blue items, and a cloak from the RDF), while the Paladin is going to get a little more bang for his buck in returns for higher statistics, offsetting the fact the warrior's weapons and skills are simply superior.

The result is a 19th level warrior and a 12th level Paladin who can both have fun and function in a BG spread across levels 10-19. The Paladin could match the warrior if he also got geared up (possibly through items acquired with Blacksmithing).

Keep in mind the Paladin's natural stats (in parenthesis) in the above numbers. The Paladin clearly won't be one-shot by the 19th level warrior due to these changes, but in a standard game, even with the warrior being a non-twink the Paladin has no prayer against the warrior no matter how skilled he is. The Paladins meager HP (less than 300) will fall to the warrior in very short order, as the warrior has more HP, more stats, more gear (I don't just mean in the twink sense of gear but her gear is a higher level requirement and has better stats), and better skills.

If we can implement this method, it wouldn't matter so much who had what levels on each side. BGs would be way more fun. Even if you had a 10 vs 10 with all 10s on 1 side and all 19s on the other, you could still have a fun and awesome BG.

NOTICE AND CONSIDER
There are many benefits that are born from this if it can be implemented. For one, it would make every battleground far more exciting. Poor matchups would more rarely be responsible for losses and it would allow players to begin engaging in PvP almost immediately, creating attachment to the server. It allows gear to be an important aspect (being in the best gear for your level will still be ideal, but that gear might include stuff like crafted items like http://www.wowhead.com/item=6214).

It can greatly increase the activity in BGs in all pre-80 BGs and would encourage people to que up immediately at 10th+ level. It also increases the balance and thus fun factor of BGs. Nobody likes getting camped, and some who are low level don't want to hold their team back by just being the useless character. With these changes, everyone can play and have fun. It can increase the size of the BGs as well (by encouraging players of X0-X4 to que up you can double the number of contributing players). More balanced BGs means more excitement, more fun, and thus more ques.

It can increase server popularity because good BGs are a rare thing in the private server community!
Last edited by Ashiel on 10 Dec 2012 15:18, edited 1 time in total.
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A Look At Gear

#2 » Post by Ashiel » 10 Dec 2012 08:43

A Look At Gear
In my initial post I detailed how classes in BGs under this system would be more balanced. I showed an example of a 12th level Paladin (my Paladin in fact) and my 19th level better geared warrior (not super geared but she's got some blues). Now I'm going to demonstrate how this would influence gear choices and encourage more activity and greater value of early craft skills.

A Reasonably Geared 12th Level Paladin
Our Paladin has the following base stats.
Hp: 266
Mana: 364
Str: 36
Agi: 24
Sta: 35
Int: 29
Spi: 31
Armor: 48 (from Agility)

Now let's arm our Paladin with some equipment that should be reasonably attainable around this level assuming professions and the Auction House. Our gear set will include:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=3471
http://www.wowhead.com/item=3472
http://www.wowhead.com/item=3473
http://www.wowhead.com/item=6214
http://www.wowhead.com/item=2308
http://www.wowhead.com/item=4246
http://www.wowhead.com/item=2309
http://www.wowhead.com/item=7281

Total Stat Modification: Str +7, Agi +4, Sta +10, 10.8 DPS, 376 Armor plus 160 from aura (about 26% damage reduction)

Now we plug this gear onto our naked 12th level Paladin, apply the % BG buff, and see what pops out!

Well Geared 12th Level Paladin
Hp: 366 (266+100) || 676 (+31 Sta)
Mana: 364 || 666 (+20 Int)
Str: 43 (36+7) || +70% = 73
Agi: 28 (24+4) || +70% = 47
Sta: 45 (35+10) || +70% = 76
Int: 29 || +70% = 49
Spi: 31|| +70% = 52
Armor: 630 (about 30% reduction)
DPS: 16.9 || 22.2 (+30 Str)

Once Again with the Warrior

19th Level Warrior
Level 19 Warrior
Hp: 703
Str: 56 (49+7) || +0%
Age: 33 || +0%
Sta: 70 (44+26) || +0%
Int: 23 || +0%
Spi: 28 || +0%
Armor: 1161 (36.56% reduction)
DPS: 24.1

The Warrior's gear includes:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=51994 of Stamina (+12 Sta)
http://www.wowhead.com/item=935 (13.5 DPS, +4 Sta)
http://www.wowhead.com/item=6447 (+513 Armor)
http://www.wowhead.com/item=15489 of Stamina (+3 Sta)
http://www.wowhead.com/item=9789 of the Bear (+3 Str, +3 Sta)
http://www.wowhead.com/item=26040 (+1 Sta)
http://www.wowhead.com/item=26031 (+1 Str, +1 Sta)
http://www.wowhead.com/item=6547 of the Bear (+2 Str, +3 Sta)

CONCLUSION
The Warrior still has room for improvement (some of her gear sucks, but she also has some blues that are quite strong) but is still powerful compared to the Paladin. However, the Paladin has a much better chance against the warrior compared to the baseline Paladin. The two could actually engage in combat and contribute at a similar level. If the Paladin had support (such as from druid or priest's heals, or from a warlock dotting the warrior) the Paladin stands a fair chance of defeating the warrior. In the current BG format, victory is essentially impossible unless the warrior is outnumbered by a truly silly degree (like 10 12th level Paladins vs the lone non-twink warrior).

Other Considerations
While doing the math and gearing our Paladin for this examination, I noticed that the appreciation of low-level trade goods is much greater with this in mind. The Paladin is geared out exclusively in crafted gear (blacksmithing + leatherworking items), which could be crafted by himself or purchased off the AH. This has a side effect of increasing the likelihood that certain low-level greens from professions will be purchased off the AH by more than people leveling enchanting, which could have the side effect of further stimulating the server's economy and thus playerbase.
Last edited by Ashiel on 10 Dec 2012 09:43, edited 2 times in total.
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A Breakdown of Mechanics

#3 » Post by Ashiel » 10 Dec 2012 08:44

Breaking Down the Mechanics of Balance
If you've been paying attention to the math on the previous posts, you'll notice that lower leveled individuals in BGs will receive considerable statistical buffs. This is a good thing because they have lower base statistics and potential for gear and need the higher abilities to offset gear and spell handicaps. So let's look at some of the primary effects the stat buffs have.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Attributes has a breakdown of most effects of the stats. Some of it is cataclysm+ specific, but the core mechanics are still present (Str x2 = Atk Power, for example).

Lower level characters get more benefit from additional armor values gained from Agility (it's not a lot but it helps), and naturally buffs to attack power, hit points, and mana go a long way to making a character more useful in a BG. In the case of casters such as mages, priests, warlocks, etc, they don't get much benefit out of attack power, but the +% increase in their mana means that they can keep their casting up more ferociously, and combined with bonuses to HP from Stamina can allow them to sustain DPS or Healing more readily despite their level handicap.

In the last post I demonstrated the difference that a 12th level Paladin receives to his offense due to higher attack power from Strength. Now I'd like to show how these rules would benefit a spellcaster, such as a priest in BGs. For this I'm going to use my main character, a 14th level priest.

14th Level Priest Base Stats
Hp: 247
Mana: 580
Str: 22
Agi: 23
Sta: 25
Int: 54
Spi: 47
Armor: 46 (from Agi)

Now let's add some gear that's reasonable.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=5542
http://www.wowhead.com/item=2583
http://www.wowhead.com/item=4310
http://www.wowhead.com/item=2582
http://www.wowhead.com/item=10047
http://www.wowhead.com/item=4566 of Intellect (+3 Int)
Total Stats: Sta +7, Int +10, Spi +4, Armor +188.

So let's plug them in, add the level modification (+60% for X4) and see where we stand.

Reasonably Geared Priest
Hp: 317 (247+70) || 505 (245+260)
Mana: 1,210 (580+660) || 1,810 (580+1230)
Str: 22 || +60% = 35
Agi: 23 || +60% = 36
Sta: 32 || +60% = 51
Int: 64 || +60% = 102
Spi: 51 || +60% = 81
Armor: 234 (188+46) || 260 (188+72)

Our priest has increased in durability significantly, and can now cast and cast and cast. This is offset by the fact she has lower level spells. Her best heal only heals about 140 damage, but has a mana cost of 70, and with the Int buff she has a crit chance around 10%, which means that she gets some fairly decent heals during the course of the battle. She also has enough mana to drop some DoTs like PW: Pain, or support with smite during the battle without going OOM too quickly. Finally the spirit boost helps with mana recovery, allowing the lower level priest to be consistently useful as long as she survives.

For offensive classes, the Int buff will increase critical hit % by about 5%, which offsets the fact their spells are lower in level. The extra crit % also sort of increases their effective hit % (I think), which may help mitigate the level differences. While the spell will do less damage that the most recent level, the extra crit % will help to keep your DPS up to practical.
Last edited by Ashiel on 10 Dec 2012 10:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Red Herring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exdK7Lirngg
Ad Hominem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GzXVqwYHVE
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Balanced is Fun, Modifications Aren't Always Bad

#4 » Post by Ashiel » 10 Dec 2012 09:44

Balance is Fun
Anyone who has played in BGs for very long knows that the most exciting BGs are the ones with lots of players, that are neck and neck in the race to win. Nobody likes getting farmed, and gross overpowering leads to people dropping from BGs. Dropped players must then wait 15 minutes before re-queing. A sour BG can shut down BGs in a bracket for a good quarter-hour as people aren't interested in getting overpowered and you're only drawing from the upper-end of each bracket for potential players.

This solution fixes every problem mentioned above. It effectively doubles the pool of players (everyone in that 10 level range can join and have fun), which means more BGs. Since fewer people are going to quit because being totally overpowered isn't fun, you are going to have better, more fun BGs which will make people want to que up more, which means more BGs. Since fewer people will quit, fewer people will have to wait 15 minutes to re-que for another BG, which means more BGs. The end result is pure +fun and +BGs!

Balance Helps the Server
TrueWoW has pretty active BGs currently. It's a huge mark in its favor, for many other servers do not, and it's almost unheard of to have BGs active from 10-79. On Blizzlike rates, that is a HUGE impact on the quality and attraction value of the server. Now to keep it revving up and going, one must expand. That means new players. BGs that are both active and welcoming are a good way to net new players for keeps. I would bet money that if you could make this happen and let people know about it, it would be very popular in practice. As new people come to the server, they can que up as soon as they hit 10th level, and unlike on most servers, it will be far more fair and entertaining for them. They'll tell their friend, and keep playing. And play they will! And then they will quest and run dungeons to get better gear.

In essence, it stimulates the server, creates a nice attraction, and most of all makes TrueWoW stand out more prominently in the sea of private servers. It is a win/win. Now some would argue that it's not "Blizzlike", but I've got a few things to say in that regard as well.

"Blizzlike" Should Not Be Shackles
The term Blizzlike is pretty simple. It is a server that has Blizzard-like rates, quests, and gameplay. Notice that Blizzlike does not mean identical. The idea is to provide an experience that is similar to Blizzard and fun. There are many steps that TrueWoW has already taken in this direction. Vote points help the server but aren't identical to Blizzard. The quest completer helps alleviate bug woes, but is not identical to Blizzard. BGs beginning with lower teams is helpful with the low population, but is not identical to Blizzard. :|

It's important to remember that with a good Blizzlike, the idea is to give players a Blizzard-like experience of fun and satisfaction. Yet you are also not Blizzard, and are your own entity. In that sense, you have the potential to improve your version of the game over what is standard. There is a certain freedom in having a private server that you can develop and improve, because you can explore new opportunities and possibilities while maintaining the Blizz-like feel.

For example, which is more important to the "Blizz-like" feel of the game? Blizzard-like limitations, or Blizzard-like fun? At some point someone had to say "Okay, we don't have the population for BGs to have Blizzard-identical team limits, let us make a change" for the BGs to exist as they are now. Now BGs are more active. We can see sometimes deviation from Blizzard is not inherently bad, nor is it destructive to the Blizzard-like feel for the game.

If the opportunity for improving the game exists, it is important to not be blinded by the idea that the server must be an exact replica of a Blizzard retail server. As a private server, there will never be a time where that is practical (it's incredibly difficult to build a population required for such things for one), and one does not compare to bigger MMOs by trying to be identical to them. You have to make yourself stand out for your virtues. By having unique and interesting features, you give people incentives to play on TrueWoW instead of Random-Private-Server#353. In doing so, people WILL get attached to those features and be attracted by those features, and will be less likely to leave the server for "greener pastures".
Last edited by Ashiel on 10 Dec 2012 11:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Example of Play

#5 » Post by Ashiel » 10 Dec 2012 09:45

Example of Similar Systems in Play
Star Wars the Old Republic does something very similar to this. When you que for BGs in that game, it doesn't matter much what your level is. Everyone gets pseudo-levels so they are on a more even footing during PvP competitions, which means there is very little waiting involved, and matches are face paced with everyone contributing regardless of level difference. I experienced this since SW:TOR went free to play (but with very, very heavy restrictions). On that, non-paying players are limited to 3 matches / week. It's a good incentive actually, because in all cases I was left thirsty for more. BG matches gave honor and lots of experience in that game as well (which could be described as a wow-clone with lightsabers :P).

And that thirst for more was a good thing. Not once, ever, did I feel like I couldn't contribute to a team when I joined a BG. Players could que up the moment they hit 10, and booya, the play was on. It allowed a very, very smooth transition of questing, dungeon-delving, and PvPing. So in practice, this sort of thing works really, really well.

For a small private server, it has all the aforementioned benefits.
1) Encourages a larger number of participants.
2) Makes each BG more fun, and thus encourages MORE ques and repeat players.

Battlegrounds Improve Servers for Non-PvP Players Too!

As was noted a bit earlier, when BGs are popular throughout all levels, then farming and trade become far more worthwhile. People who want to PvP in BGs are going to want to keep upgrading their gear constantly to attain the competitive edge. When that also includes people on the lower end of a BG bracket (the X0-X4 ends), it creates opportunities to gear-up with both professions and dungeons. This is an important thing to consider. Let me give two very simple and basic scenarios. So obvious that they should probably go without saying but...

1) As with the Paladin example from before, our Paladin was geared up in stuff from Blacksmithing and Leatherworking, because those items were great gears for her level. My 19th level warrior was running BGs and tanking to earn the blues that she was wearing. Keeping relevant gear from 10-79 is a big deal for those who love PvP, and that encourages them to buy, sell, trade, and raid to get it.

2) For those who enjoy using the RDF, it means that those playing in BGs will que up and help run dungeons to get those sweet dungeon drops. Often running gearing up for their current or even next bracket.

3) From an economic perspective, Battleground activity helps more than may be immediately noticeable. BG fans are always on the lookout for stuff to gear up or use tactically in BGs. Battlegrounds can use a lot of consumables. Food, potions, scrolls, and elixirs are all excellent examples of consumables. BG players like to keep up to date gear, which means buying greens and blues off the AH. Battlegrounds players who craft their own gears will often need components from other professions as well.

Battlegrounds players often need to fund their habits, so they will in turn auction goods. Many BG players will have professions such as herbalism, mining, or skinning, and will in turn put stuff up on the AH to sell to buy more consumables and gear. This stuff can then be purchased by other BG players to craft their own stuff, or purchased by other players to help them in their own purposes (even if those other players have no care for BGs).

Because of the usefulness of crafted gears in a situation where BGs are more balanced and low-levels can contribute, you will find a greater desire for items such as:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=5542
http://www.wowhead.com/item=4320
http://www.wowhead.com/item=45626
http://www.wowhead.com/item=4317

These items are often useful for those who want to engage in BGs, but require some pretty significant farming. Some will consider buying them off the AH, or at least purchase things like pearls from the AH to craft them with. So even if you're not actively participating in BGs, more active BGs can lead to a more active server overall as supply and demand kicks in.

Invites Casual Players
Let's face it. Balanced BGs are fun! Yet not everyone is a hardcore PvPer, but some would like to dabble a bit, or would like to try getting their feet wet. This would allow players to become more comfortable with battlegrounds, even if they've never experienced lots of PvP before or lament getting owned when an experienced enemy finds them in the wilds.

By creating more balanced PvP, you encourage players to join in even if they normally wouldn't, develop a taste for it, and perhaps learn a few more skills (it's hard to learn what you should have pushed when you're dead in 2 hits either way :P). Players who are interested in trying to get achievements may join in to try and get some PvP achievements (like Warsong Gulch Victory), and their participation will lead to more active and larger BGs. With larger BGs, theaters like Arathi Basin become more practical.

In Closing
This is my case for trying to implement Roel's idea of rebalancing Battlegrounds, as well as my suggestions for how to go about doing it mechanically. I've taken the time to hammer out the math, examples, and arguments for it. I've laid down examples as to why it would improve the server's BGs, playerbase, economy, fun-factor, reputation, and even PvE activity. Thank you.
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing, Another Look

#6 » Post by Roel » 10 Dec 2012 14:06

This is really awesome and it obviously took some effort to write this so you received the MVP forum rank.

It''s hard to get more readers for such a huge block of text so I made a global sticky of it. If someone still disagrees after all of this, I hope you can give some good arguments.

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Re: Battleground Rebalancing, Another Look

#7 » Post by Ashiel » 10 Dec 2012 14:18

Roel wrote:This is really awesome and it obviously took some effort to write this so you received the MVP forum rank.

It''s hard to get more readers for such a huge block of text so I made a global sticky of it. If someone still disagrees after all of this, I hope you can give some good arguments.
Wow, thank you Roel! I appreciate it!

Phew, I must admit, I'm quite tired after all that typing. Been up most of the night just working on it, except for the odd BG. Took a while to check out my sources, compare statistics, go over stuff at WoWhead and WoWWiki to double check game mechanics and try to come up with a simple formula that would work well. After all of this I really hope it needs no further argument. However, I'm willing to go the extra mile of need be; because I see a lot of people trying to join BGs and then drop out, not to be seen again.

Seriously. A lot of them. :(

I'm most curious as to if anyone can provide a strong counter argument. So far the extend of the arguments I've seen against such things could be summed up as:

"Who cares if it is fair, fun, or drives away new players. Maintain the status quo!" :mrgreen:

The worst argument I saw in one of the threads was something like:

"Our population is high now because of the merge, we don't need to do anything, if the population falls we'll merge again." or something like that. I facepalmed. I really did. :lol:
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Ad Hominem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GzXVqwYHVE
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing, Another Look

#8 » Post by Roel » 11 Dec 2012 04:21

I am able to code something like this and it's actually quite simple. Just need an approval from the community... If nobody is going to read this then I can also enable it for testing so we will now for sure how much fun it would be. Not much time would be wasted if it has to be disabled.

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Re: Battleground Rebalancing, Another Look

#9 » Post by Ragnorak » 11 Dec 2012 05:08

Please explain how this is remotely blizzlike... until you do i am against this

And one thing i wanted to point out, as a shaman twink most of my twink gear is available to me at lvl 16 therefore the smarter thing to do would be to make another shaman, lvl him to 16, stop xp, loom him up, get all my off set gears, and Boom i end up getting buffed by this new change, and i have the majority of my gears at my disposal... therefore this suggestion can be easily abused
Last edited by Ragnorak on 11 Dec 2012 05:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing, Another Look

#10 » Post by Ashiel » 11 Dec 2012 05:16

Ragnorak wrote:Please explain how this is remotely blizzlike... until you do i am against this
Because it creates a Blizzlike competition on a lower serverbase. Blizzlike in feel, fun factor, etc. It is an improvement to the server and playability. Making BGs more frequent and more balanced is in itself Blizzlike, even if you have to use methods that are not Blizzlike to achieve that feel.
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Etro
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing, Another Look

#11 » Post by Etro » 11 Dec 2012 05:19

Ashiel adressed this "blizzlike" dilemma: http://www.truewow.org/forum/viewtopic. ... =32#p91306
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing, Another Look

#12 » Post by Ragnorak » 11 Dec 2012 05:21

Ashiel wrote:
Ragnorak wrote:Please explain how this is remotely blizzlike... until you do i am against this
Because it creates a Blizzlike competition on a lower serverbase. Blizzlike in feel, fun factor, etc. It is an improvement to the server and playability. Making BGs more frequent and more balanced is in itself Blizzlike, even if you have to use methods that are not Blizzlike to achieve that feel.
You talk like even on retail low levels never feel the pain of getting farmed by twinks... twinking has been going on way longer since u first started playing. Until u can script the separate BGs, any changes you make will be completely unblizzlike and completely abuse-able. Watch me flag 24/7 in WSG, sure i wont be able to kill you low levels when u pick up the flag but you sure as hell can't kill me... Low levels have never been on my radar before just like they are not on most twinks radars, all ur doing is agitating the twinks into finding ways to abuse these changes to make ur BG life a living hell because you took away something which shouldn't have been taken away.
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Etro
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing, Another Look

#13 » Post by Etro » 11 Dec 2012 05:24

On retail it stopped from happening with the arrive of the patch 3.2.0. And just because twinking has been going on for a long time doesn't excuse it of being harmful to the majority of players in those brackets, which are new players and fresh characters, not twinks.
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Twinks Aren't Blizzlike Either...

#14 » Post by Ashiel » 11 Dec 2012 05:31

Ragnorak wrote:Please explain how this is remotely blizzlike... until you do i am against this

And one thing i wanted to point out, as a shaman twink most of my twink gear is available to me at lvl 16 therefore the smarter thing to do would be to make another shaman, lvl him to 16, stop xp, loom him up, get all my off set gears, and Boom i end up getting buffed by this new change, and i have the majority of my gears at my disposal... therefore this suggestion can be easily abused
Also, I would rebuke your opposition on the grounds of hypocrisy. You oppose this because it is not Blizzlike, yet in another thread you say:
You cannot remove this from the game at all it is unfair for the twinks... i worked for over 6 months to get the gear i have now... this is the part where people say "its unfair for twinks to be 1 shotting low levels either! herp" Newsflash... XP rates are bumped up, and RAF is coming soon, leveling has never been easier u will be in the 10-19 bracket for less than a week before u move onto 20-29, while us twinks stay in 10-19 forever... talk about being selfish... ur removing a tradition that has been going on in TrueWoW since the very beginning.
When Twinks are not Blizzlike. They nipped that in the bud when WotLK was released, banning twinks from normal BGs because Blizzard understood that twinks are harmful to the majority of players and are only used by hobbyists who want an uber low-level. They made twink-only BG, but that's bugged here and could be worked on as it was available.

So you want something that is by no means Blizzlike because it suits you. We want something that is not mechanically Blizzlike to improve the community. There is nothing preventing someone with a twink to make a legit character and play normal BGs, but there is a lot preventing legit characters from playing alongside twinks. So again, hypocritical to call others selfish in this case, or to oppose rebalanced BGs on grounds of it being Blizzlike when Twinks vs Non-Twinks isn't Blizzlike either. :roll:
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing, Another Look

#15 » Post by Roel » 11 Dec 2012 05:33

Ragnorak wrote:Please explain how this is remotely blizzlike... until you do i am against this
It's quite simple, we don't have blizzlike 10v10 matches. Most are actually under 5v5 and that's not blizzlike at all. Level differences would roughly get balanced in a 10v10 match. But because we don't have 10v10 matches, we regularly have highly unbalanced BGs to the point where all players of one faction leave because they can't even get a kill, that is NOT blizzlike. Just like we have done many times before, we should look for ways to adapt to our population causing the end result to be a blizzlike playing experience.

No, regular players won't meet twinks in BGs at retail so it's not blizzlike here. Yes at retail they will get farmed by higher levels that are skilled and have good gear but in no way compared to how twinks can do that here. And at retail you have full randomness in matches, here you have no other choice than losing until that twink leaves the BG or you get some serious help. You see we are in no way close to being blizzlike if you look at it like that.

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