[WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

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Regent
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[WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#1 » Post by Regent » 03 Aug 2018 21:01

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Spoiler:
Jaina Proudmoore finally realizes that her father was right all along and thus, decides to follow in his footsteps.
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Spoiler:
Warchief Sylvanas Windrunner commits genocide against the night elves by burning Darkshore and Teldrassil (and Darnassus with it) to the ground (with innocent men, women and children still in the World Tree) .
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Spoiler:
Varok Saurfang, father of Dranosh Saurfang (DBS boss in ICC) questions his own loyalty and begins to lose faith in the Horde. He also tells Sylvanas that there was no honor in what she did.
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EDIT: 3 more clips
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EDIT: 3 more clips
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Fun facts:
Daelin Proudmoore is voiced by Mark Addy (the actor who portrayed Robert Baratheon in Game of Thrones).
Katherine Proudmoore is voiced by Indira Verma (the actress who portrayed Ellaria Sand in Game of Thrones).

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EDIT: 1 more clip
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Enjoy.
Last edited by Regent on 26 Aug 2018 17:08, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#2 » Post by Benedictus » 03 Aug 2018 23:57

Awsome Cinematics! Wish they made movies like these.

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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#3 » Post by Relykia » 04 Aug 2018 06:24

I think they are all very interesting and was very impressed with the amount of detail. It just irks me on how they appear to be releasing the bits of lore. I can understand using: In-Game Content, In-Game Cinematics, but when you add physical media like books that fill in important pieces, it just feels wrong.

I can understand why they might be doing that. They are a business, they want to make money. I just feel that if you are going to tell a story and you are already charging people to play the game and to buy the product to play said game. That story should be covered under that cost.

Was her father right though? Do we hold everyone accountable for the actions of the few? I can understand her father having certain issues, he dealt with an aspect of the Horde. But he let his anger close his mind and he lumped everyone under the same umbrella. I wouldn't hold Baine or Thrall accountable for the recent actions of Sylvannas. Now if I were to listen to Jaina's father, he would be like THEY MUST ALL DIE!! Very single minded way of thinking.

I can understand the concept of, anytime someone tries for peace something comes along and messes it up. Was it Einstein that said that insanity is trying to do the same thing the same way and expecting to get different results. They are ALL INSANE!! They try to talk and something comes up and they don't even bother to deal with the issue, they just say, "The heck with it, time to fight!" Why even bother trying to find peace if the smallest incident is just going to make you throw away all that you already tried to work towards.
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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#4 » Post by bakiss » 04 Aug 2018 07:53

Relykia wrote:
04 Aug 2018 06:24
I think they are all very interesting and was very impressed with the amount of detail. It just irks me on how they appear to be releasing the bits of lore. I can understand using: In-Game Content, In-Game Cinematics, but when you add physical media like books that fill in important pieces, it just feels wrong.

I can understand why they might be doing that. They are a business, they want to make money. I just feel that if you are going to tell a story and you are already charging people to play the game and to buy the product to play said game. That story should be covered under that cost.
Just watch a 10-15 min video on youtube explaining what happened in the book, works for me since I'm not much of a reader :D
Relykia wrote:
04 Aug 2018 06:24
Was her father right though? Do we hold everyone accountable for the actions of the few? I can understand her father having certain issues, he dealt with an aspect of the Horde. But he let his anger close his mind and he lumped everyone under the same umbrella. I wouldn't hold Baine or Thrall accountable for the recent actions of Sylvannas. Now if I were to listen to Jaina's father, he would be like THEY MUST ALL DIE!! Very single minded way of thinking.

I can understand the concept of, anytime someone tries for peace something comes along and messes it up. Was it Einstein that said that insanity is trying to do the same thing the same way and expecting to get different results. They are ALL INSANE!! They try to talk and something comes up and they don't even bother to deal with the issue, they just say, "The heck with it, time to fight!" Why even bother trying to find peace if the smallest incident is just going to make you throw away all that you already tried to work towards.
Her father was in a right in a way, if you consider all the time Jaina tried peace with the horde and she just kept getting slapped back from them, they didn't really give her peace. So if she really wants peace she must destroy the horde first. Which I have no issue with cos KILL ALL THE HORDE!!!! Alliance for LIFE!

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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#5 » Post by Relykia » 04 Aug 2018 12:53

Did the Horde not give her peace, or was it a select few in said Horde? That seems to be the biggest issue that a lot of the characters seem to face. They are unable to distinguish the individual from the collective.

Like one example that comes to mind was the events of WC 3 and the racism that was clearly expressed by Garithos. If I play a Blood Elf (Rping) I suppose that if blanket punishment is way to go, all Humans MUST BE racists. Doesn't matter if I have never met you, since Garithos was a racist, you are a racist if you are human. End of story.

That sounds completly insane, or it might just be me.

I can understand the feeling of, "We keep trying, and something comes up to mess it up." But to continue to blame the collective for the actions of the few is hardly right.
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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#6 » Post by Regent » 04 Aug 2018 14:16

Regarding Jaina, her story now is almost 15 years in the making. I believe her character is what her life experiences have made her.
I see it as a case of her finally coming to terms with the understanding of some historically accurate concepts, such as:
1. "History is written by the victors."
2. "Might makes right."

She's had mud (and more) thrown in her face by not only those she thought she could trust in the Alliance as well as the Kirin-Tor, but also by the Horde. She lost Theramore and so much more. She saw how Dalaran's neutrality was violated to accomplish that. She also saw the Horde betray the Alliance at the Battle of the Broken Shore (we, as the audience, know the Horde's side of it, but look at it from the Alliance's Perspective. They don't know that).
She strove for peace all her life and all she got in return was treachery, violence and the death of those close to her.
She's finally understood that the current powers that be won't listen to ideas of peace nor hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
Oh and let's throw in the fact that guilt can be a very powerful motivator. She feels she's guilty of standing aside as her father died while trying to fight exactly what she herself about to start fighting against now.

If you saw the cinematic at the end of Mists of Pandaria, you can literally see the disgust on her face and hear the hatred in her voice when she tells King Varian to "dismantle" the Horde. Source: https://youtu.be/L4V6hk-_30k?t=50s
And then when she thought that Varian was about to carry out her suggestion, you could see the satisfaction on her face (It even shocked Anduin).

While it may be true that the Horde (under Thrall or Vol'jin) may not have been as violent as Jaina thinks it is now (or was under Garrosh), it doesn't even matter now.
There's something that I learned from watching Battlestar Galactica. That is: "Context matters." Don't just look at the end result of an incident, look at how that incident happened and what were the reasons behind it. Context is something that can easily make something look insanely evil or make it look completely justified as a lesser of two evils.

However, in Jaina's case, she's had it up to her head with context and patience. So she's decided to fight fire with fire.
Now that Jaina is Lord Admiral of Kul-Tiras (and by extension) the Alliance navy itself (especially since she quit from the Kirin-Tor), she's will probably carve out the shape of things as she wants them to be, by force if necessary (because, in her view, peace just doesn't work anymore and nobody listens to her so she'll have to do it herself).

A person can only take so much until it drives them to a certain path.
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."
As Harvey Dent once said, "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."


Edit: Fixed typos.
Last edited by Regent on 05 Aug 2018 01:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#7 » Post by bakiss » 04 Aug 2018 22:21

Yap Regent totally agree. Honestly I'm glad I'll see feisty Jaina! Going full blown death to the horde ^_^

Relykia I understand what you mean and ofc you can't take the collective all the time, but in this case it was the collective, cos it was the horde leaders that consistently gave the orders for war rather than peace and the horde followed, even if some disagreed. In the case you stated, if there was more alliance leaders that are consistently racist wouldn't you at some point just conclude that all of the alliance are racists?

Just look at old man Saurfang he almost gave up on the horde because of what Sylvanas did to the tree, but he still decided to fight by her side. So should the alliance now not kill him because he disagrees with what Sylvanas did, even tho he fights by her side?

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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#8 » Post by Relykia » 04 Aug 2018 22:57

Have people of the Alliance forgotten that there were people in the Horde that rose up against what Garrosh was doing? Just because it happened a few years ago in game time doesn't mean that things like that can't happen again. Especially with what has happened with the burning of the tree, the blighting of ones own soldiers at the storming of Lordaeron, and even when her own people were killed at the family reunion of Humans and Forsaken. SOMEONE, ANYONE from the Alliance side I would think would be like, "Whoa, wait a second. Some people of the Horde might agree with this, but certainly not all of them."

I understand that a war is going on, and not everyone is going to think 100% with a clear head. Sylvannas is using psycological warfare now. Maybe the Alliance needs to start thinning out the Horde troops by offering safe refuge to those that do not agree with what she is doing and are willing to dethrone her for those actions. I honestly don't think that the various Horde Druids in lore would agree with what just happened. Maybe they do, but I would find it unlikely.

I think the issue that also needs to be addressed is that there is two wars going on. You have those people willing to fight. If they are willing to fight, that is one thing. Now if the midset of the attacker is, "You're and Orc and you are just farming and you must die ONLY because you are an orc." That is a different fish than killing someone on the field of battle.

Like in game, there is Cho'Gall. He is a mean and spiteful ogre right? But then there is that Ogre in the Burning Steppes? that totally despises violence and has a blast riding on the spiders. Should I want to put him to death because of the actions of Cho'Gall?
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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#9 » Post by Regent » 05 Aug 2018 02:00

Honestly? I'm expecting Thunder Bluff and Silvermoon to threaten to leave the Horde (or even better, just leave outright) after what Sylvanas did to Teldrassil - any day now.

Nobody's going to tell me that a race of people that worship the Earth Mother (and had good relations with Darnassus) are going to stand by while their Warchief commits genocide.
And how about a race of elves that almost rejoined the Alliance? (Source: Mists of Pandaria - during secret negotiations with King Varian before that idea got ruined by Jaina with the Purge of Dalaran)
Someone want to tell me that the Night Elves' cousins from across the sea are comfortable seeing the mass slaughter of innocent men, women and children by their own warchief after what Arthas did to Quel'Thalas?

As for for the rest of the Horde: Most orcs and trolls already have similar views to Saurfang's.
Goblins? They couldn't care less as long as the money keeps flowing.
And the Forsaken? They're already mere tenants of Orgrimmar now since the Alliance wiped the Undercity off the map.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Warchief's own sisters decide to kill her for what she's done. If not her sisters, then someone within the Horde itself or maybe even someone from the Alliance might just do the deed.
They'd all be perfectly justified in doing so too.

One thing is for sure: Sylvanas signed her own death warrant the moment she decided to burn Teldrassil to the ground.
History repeats itself.

Only time will tell what direction Blizzard will take next with WoW's Lore in the upcoming future.
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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#10 » Post by Relykia » 05 Aug 2018 03:40

It didn't dawn on me until just now. Everything is starting to make sense or at least a possibility that could be where Blizzard may go.

Vol'jin said that the Loa told him that Sylvanas needed to be the next Warchief right? There is a Loa that holds dominion over the dead. What if there is a Loa that holds dominion over life and somehow knew / understood the type of person that Sylvanas was? I don't think it's a far stretch of the imagination to think so.

No one would openly attack her without a reason, there are many in the Horde that do have some form of honor. Let her be Warchief, give her an inch and she WILL take a mile. I think that she was set up to be taken down, the cards just had to be played just right in order to do so.

People can hear stories about certain things happening, but if they are able to see them happen. I think the impact would be greater. Giving people from the Horde even more of a reason to be like, "Nope, you are crazy and only doing what you think is good for you and not the Horde."
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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#11 » Post by bakiss » 05 Aug 2018 16:39

Good theories but I think Sylvanas will have a good reason for burning the tree and the Horde will forgive her, or she'll have a half-assed good reason and people will forgive her for a time of war and betray her by the end of the expansion

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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#12 » Post by Rascall » 05 Aug 2018 19:37

I do not think there is another Garrosh-like ending for an expansion that's why I believe that more of her intentions of burning the tree will be revealed. There is not going to be any faction changes either. In lore ye, blood elves negotiated to join Alliance but it will never happen. There need to be 2 factions and in terms of lore the composition does not always make sense but it was divided like this for the purposes of gameplay.
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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#13 » Post by Wilcox » 07 Aug 2018 05:37

another theory states that due to being undead, sylvanas is immune to being influenced by the old gods (which this expansion is clearly based on) unlike everyone else. therefore, people think that she's doing what needs to be done in order to secure most of the azerite as soon as possible and ensure that the horde survives BFA

i don't know the total truth behind this and i cba looking it up either, but I'm a diehard sylvanas fan since at least 10 years ago so hey... death to treehuggers ;_;

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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#14 » Post by Skidda » 07 Aug 2018 20:21

Rascall wrote:
05 Aug 2018 19:37
There need to be 2 factions and in terms of lore the composition does not always make sense but it was divided like this for the purposes of gameplay.
I still remember people screaming at Blizzard when they announced that the Forsaken was joining the Horde. Some people also said that Night Elves should've been a neutral faction too, given that they have more affinity with Taurens than with Dwarves (and Gnomes, and Humans).

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Re: [WoW: BFA Lore] New Cinematics from Blizzard

#15 » Post by Regent » 07 Aug 2018 22:23

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Added to original post as well.
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