Drop on an item on TW

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Gadoschi
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Drop on an item on TW

#1 » Post by Gadoschi » 16 Dec 2017 14:08

Hey.

So, I was told that the drop chances on the Armory are pulled directly from the server database.

But, how can that be correct?

I just looted Sunroc Gloves (ilvl 96, requires lvl 62 to equip) from a Sawtooth Snapper in Swamp of Sorrows (lvl 41-42 mob), which isn't even listed as one of the mobs with a drop chance.

Can someone with real inside access to the database post mobs and drop chances for Lunar Belt? I'm asking because after MONTHS of farming Dire Maul West (where the mobs are supposed to have the highest drop chance of all), I decided to check the Armory, and was stunned by the fact that mobs listed as the ones with drop chance are completely different mobs from what they should be.
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Errorista
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Re: Drop on an item on TW

#2 » Post by Errorista » 16 Dec 2017 15:27

Sunroc Gloves - afaik world drops or insane low drop chances arent listed in armoury but looks like bug either way

Lunar Belt - always check armoury before you farm anything, saved me a lot of time already, TC have many mistakes in loot tables, report them on bugtracker so some dev can look into it when available

also moved to bug discussion forum

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Gadoschi
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Re: Drop on an item on TW

#3 » Post by Gadoschi » 16 Dec 2017 17:30

Does that mean that Armory drop information is correct (as in, representing database drop table)?
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Almsivi
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Re: Drop on an item on TW

#4 » Post by Almsivi » 16 Dec 2017 17:32

Yes, drop chances are pulled directly from db to armory .
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Gadoschi
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Re: Drop on an item on TW

#5 » Post by Gadoschi » 16 Dec 2017 18:24

Almsivi wrote:
16 Dec 2017 17:32
Yes, drop chances are pulled directly from db to armory .
I don't think this is true at all. Either something is wrong with the database or there is something wrong with database>armory process.

Because, so far I've had only 3 random green drops from around 300 killed Sawtooth Snappers, and all three items were Sunroc Gloves (which is not even listed, because it's a a drop that's supposed to be a TBC drop).
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Re: Drop on an item on TW

#6 » Post by Nyeriah » 16 Dec 2017 19:00

The loot in Swamp of Sorrows might be crossed with the loot in Black Morass because TrinityCore.

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Gadoschi
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Re: Drop on an item on TW

#7 » Post by Gadoschi » 16 Dec 2017 19:42

Can you elaborate? ^^

Does that mean I need to go to BM to farm Swamp of Sorrows random drops? ^^
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Re: Drop on an item on TW

#8 » Post by Vaen » 17 Dec 2017 17:20

The drops that you see in armory are completely correct. The reason you don't see those gloves in the Sawtooth snapper loot table is probably because the armory HTML page that your browser consults for an NPC has a certain limit to how many items it will display, and some <0.01% items might not be displayed because of this.
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Gadoschi
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Re: Drop on an item on TW

#9 » Post by Gadoschi » 17 Dec 2017 17:30

The NPC in question has at least about 100 random green world drops listed with at least 0,02% chance. If only one item dropped, and three times in a row, and it's not even listed (meaning, it's a 0,01% chance drop or lower at best), do you have any idea how almost impossible that is to happen? Especially considering no other random world green item dropped at all. The information does not reflect real-time drops, I can stake my head on it.
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Re: Drop on an item on TW

#10 » Post by Nuko » 07 Jul 2018 21:10

Hello! I created the armory, so let me tell you a bit about how loot works.

The armory definitely does use the server DBs for nearly everything including loot tables. However, that being said, determining the chance of something dropping is not as simple as just reading it from the DB.

When loot is generated by the server, it uses the information in the loot tables to perform a series of, essentially, dice rolls to decide which items to add to the loot. Depending on the complexity of the loot template for a given creature/object/whatever this can involve any number of dice rolls thus complicating matters from an analytical stand-point. The loot tables are designed to feed information into this process as a result, not for analytically calculating a percentage probability of something dropping.

The only way of completely accurately determining the drop chance of something is to run the process used by the core several thousand times and count how many times out of that the item did drop (if you look closely at something like wowhead you will see that they have collated user data over time to provide their drop chances).

Doing this automatically every time someone loads an armory page is obviously not ideal so instead it uses an approximate analytical solution. This typically works well, giving spot-on probabilities for simple loot tables and only being 1 or 2 percentage points out for more complex ones.
Vaen wrote: armory HTML page that your browser consults for an NPC has a certain limit to how many items it will display
This is true for pretty much everything on the armory, there is a limit on the number of items the page will display, this could be why you're not seeing an item in a loot list or an NPC in a "looted from" list. (The limit on the number of "looted from" NPCs is lower than the other way around because reverse loot look-ups are more resource intensive).
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Re: Drop on an item on TW

#11 » Post by Nuko » 07 Jul 2018 21:21

Okay so long story short, for your summarising pleasure:
  • It's working as intended.
  • The data does come directly from the server database but there is also a lot of processing involved.
  • You can't see the NPC because the armory only shows up to 40 NPCs (I just looked it up) in the "looted from" list.
  • Some probabilities may be slightly off (although I don't think that's the problem here).
  • BONUS POINT: It also uses an even more approximate method for determining which are the "top 40" to show, so it is possible that is has a chance that is greater than 0.01% but it gets left out because of this.
Good-o.
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Dunkelstein
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Re: Drop on an item on TW

#12 » Post by Dunkelstein » 13 Jul 2018 11:10

Fact:
-Every drop listed on the armory is accurate
Also a fact:
-Not everything that drops is listed on the armory

Like when you get a level 52 item from a level 12 mob:
https://i.imgur.com/XCBWe0O.jpg
Granted, Gamon is be an easter egg.
EDIT: It actually is listed on the armory :oops:

But Gadoschi is talking about a legit bug. I remember killing Raptors in the Wetlands and getting the same rare item 3-4 times in a row.

I don't think it's a problem with the armory but with shared loot tables or some other variables that are affecting the raw chances from the DB. It's honestly been a while since this happened to me. I haven't leveled a fresh toon in a while but when it did happen it was very frequent.
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