Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

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KohiiKaiju
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Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#1 » Post by KohiiKaiju » 07 Nov 2017 03:21

This thread will be moderated.

The following is a list of current PVE class tweaks. New additions or changes will be in red. In the past, discussion and testing of changes like these were done in closed channels, but this will be an attempt to democratize the process. Please take that into consideration as you reply, as poor responses will inform if the staff does the same with future changes. Responses should be as objective as possible. Tests, with full-screen screenshots would be preferable.

The changes are currently live on PTR, with the possible exception of Savage Defense. Considering these are PVE changes, you will be able to test the differences by doing so inside and outside an instance. You can spawn a level 70 test dummy, such as the ones you find in capital cities, through the command
.npc add temp 31144
A full list of PTR commands can be found here.

Overall Tweaks:
  • PVE healing: -40% to base heal
  • PVP damage: -25%
Changes to classes in PVE situations:
Druid:
  • Rejuvenation: -15% healing done
  • Healing Touch removed from nerfed status.
  • Mangle (Cat): +15% damage
  • Mangle (Bear): +15% damage
  • Lacerate: +15% damage
  • Shred: +25% damage
  • Rip: +50% damage
  • Rake: +42% damage on DoT, +75% damage on initial damage
  • Ferocious Bite: +25% damage
  • Savage Defense: +20% absorbed
Hunter:
  • Multishot: +30% damage (down from 85%)
  • Steady Shot: +60% damage (down from 85%)
  • Serpent Sting: +60% damage (down from 85%)
  • Black Arrow: +65% damage
  • Arcane Shot: +30% damage (down from 65%)
  • Aimed Shot: +30% damage (down from 65%)
  • These buffs were applied for multiple reasons, one of which being that pets were not working as intended originally in the new core. Those reasons no longer apply, so Hunters needed reassessing. While the intention is not to debilitate Hunters, certainly their ability to do incredible damage in every single circumstance is something no other DPSer can boast. Keep in mind that Steady Shot has not been affected as much as the instant shots and that Autoshots and Volley were never touched to begin with. Testing on these changes is particularly desired.
Paladin:
  • Righteous Fury: +20% threat (up to 100%)
  • Avenger's Shield: -40% mana cost
  • Consecrate: -25% mana cost
Priest:
  • Mind Flay: -20% mana cost
  • Shadow Word: Pain: -20% mana cost
  • Mind Blast: -20% mana cost
  • Vampiric Touch: -20% mana cost
  • Devouring Plague: -20% mana cost
  • Inner Fire: -25% mana cost
Shaman
  • Lightning Bolt: -40% mana cost
  • Chain Lightning: -20% mana cost
Warlock
  • Mana Drain: -20% mana cost
  • Felguard's Cleave ability: +50% damage
Warrior
  • Revenge: -25% damage
Looking forward to hearing your views. Please remember that we do not want opinions, but data. Happy testing. PVP changes will be coming soon, for those interested.

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natnat123
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#2 » Post by natnat123 » 07 Nov 2017 04:28

i still think ele shaman could do with a little damage buff. mana seems pretty good for them atm, but damage can still be lacking. also i think fury warrior could do with a buff, but im going to equip a fury warrior with full T6 or something and see if the damage really will get better later on vs arms. will provide data once i have had time to do it. other classes im not so sure about so others will have to comment on those
Last edited by natnat123 on 07 Nov 2017 04:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Botmaster5
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#3 » Post by Botmaster5 » 07 Nov 2017 04:37

This is a sample from one of our latest SSC boss, which tells a fairly standard tale among most single target fights with no AoE adds

Image

Dps comparison between mage, moonkin, and ele sham.
All similar geared, all with approximately equal dps up time.

The moonkin and mage are heads and shoulders above the ele shaman.

Would like to see the numbers for lightning bolt or chain lightning bumped up a little to be inline with other casters.
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natnat123
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#4 » Post by natnat123 » 07 Nov 2017 04:41

^ +1

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.Watson1988
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#5 » Post by .Watson1988 » 07 Nov 2017 12:40

Another option to buff feral dps and make its playstyle actually enjoyable would be to decrease energy costs of Shred and Rake by let's say 20% to 40%. That way players would spend less time doing nothing (i.e., waiting for energy) and generate more combo points and thus be able to use ferocious bite more often.

So in short:
lower energy cost for rake and shred -> using more shred (more player activity) -> get more combo points -> more ferocious bite -> more damage (and more fun)

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Nyeriah
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#6 » Post by Nyeriah » 07 Nov 2017 12:49

If anyone needs help testing those class changes on the PTR they can message me and I will load an exact copy of their live server characters on the PTR. That should help getting accross more accurate results with ease.

Just make sure to include the character name in the message, and the account must be linked to your messaging account.
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Anesthesia
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#7 » Post by Anesthesia » 07 Nov 2017 13:59

.Watson1988 wrote:
07 Nov 2017 12:40
lower energy cost for rake and shred -> using more shred (more player activity) -> get more combo points -> more ferocious bite -> more damage (and more fun)
Incorrect, Shred dmg per energy would be greater than FB dmg per energy consumed.
Even Rip would most likely be a garbage compared to Shred.
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.Watson1988
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#8 » Post by .Watson1988 » 07 Nov 2017 18:00

Anesthesia wrote:
07 Nov 2017 13:59
.Watson1988 wrote:
07 Nov 2017 12:40
lower energy cost for rake and shred -> using more shred (more player activity) -> get more combo points -> more ferocious bite -> more damage (and more fun)
Incorrect, Shred dmg per energy would be greater than FB dmg per energy consumed.
Even Rip would most likely be a garbage compared to Shred.
I assume we would have to remove the damage buffs from shred, reduce its energy cost, and still buff finishers like Rip and FB by a lot to bring those above the break even point in regard to shred's damage per energy ratio.

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flosr1
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#9 » Post by flosr1 » 09 Nov 2017 00:03

well cat dps'ing is a bit stupid now, because Primal Fury doesn't work. so like .Watson1988 said, it is a lot of waiting for combo points

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KohiiKaiju
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#10 » Post by KohiiKaiju » 09 Nov 2017 04:25

Botmaster5 wrote:
07 Nov 2017 04:37
Would like to see the numbers for lightning bolt or chain lightning bumped up a little to be inline with other casters.
It seems to me that Shaman scale quite well. This might just be a gear issue that will get sorted as we move along. Elemental seems to scale very well with haste especially, compared to say a Warlock.

Anyway...
Testing single target DPS at Heroic/Kara gear:
Image
At T5 level:
Image
At T6 level:
Image
All of those were done with a Flask of Supreme Power and Curse of Elements but no other outside buffs.

These are not to point out that Elemental shaman are going to be topping charts like mad in T6, but just to point out that it will get better with gear - maybe more so than other classes.

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Nyeriah
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#11 » Post by Nyeriah » 09 Nov 2017 22:10

The Savage Defense requested change has been applied to the PTR. A 20% bonus will be applied to the absorption value. So the final value is 25% of the druid's attack power, plus an extra 20% of that amount.
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#12 » Post by carpalo » 10 Nov 2017 11:13

Considering Elemental shamans I would like to point out that other dps classes are already doing over 2500dps in SSC at the moment.

If we compare other casters to elemental they all have talent which scales their spelldamage up to certain % and ele gets that important talent in Wotlk = Shamanism. Tier 6 will give nice boost to Elemental but dps cap will remain almost same.

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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#13 » Post by Relina » 10 Nov 2017 11:27

carpalo wrote:
10 Nov 2017 11:13
Considering Elemental shamans I would like to point out that other dps classes are already doing over 2500dps in SSC at the moment.

If we compare other casters to elemental they all have talent which scales their spelldamage up to certain % and ele gets that important talent in Wotlk = Shamanism. Tier 6 will give nice boost to Elemental but dps cap will remain almost same.
Elemental shaman gearing priority: Wait for wrath >>> hit to spell cap > sp > crit/haste!
We will just have to deal with it :(
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natnat123
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#14 » Post by natnat123 » 10 Nov 2017 11:32

the goal is to balance the classes in tbc phase. wrath is a very long time away and its not tbc :) alot of classes are unbalanced because of certain very important talents/spells missing. most because of that anyway. because its wrath client. cant just give everyone the missing talents/spells. so balance needs doing in other ways

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doom2099
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Re: Tier 5 PVE Class Tweaks

#15 » Post by doom2099 » 10 Nov 2017 19:21

Skye wrote:
07 Nov 2017 12:49
If anyone needs help testing those class changes on the PTR they can message me and I will load an exact copy of their live server characters on the PTR. That should help getting accross more accurate results with ease.

Just make sure to include the character name in the message, and the account must be linked to your messaging account.
Just sent you a PM. Thank you! :D

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