Every Man for Himself

#1 » Post by **Arturo** » 16 Jul 2015 14:01

Removing this racial is the first dumb decision I've seen from this server. I can understand professions but racials its b*******. The whole idea is vanilla content with wrath of the lich king mechanics and updates. If pvp was already rare then now its going to be non existent because that is the main race for pvp for alliance. News flash everyone, everything is unbalanced without the talents going past the 31 tier point and hunters are excessively overpowered along with warriors should we also nerf them to by taking the pet away from the hunter? or removing charge and revenge from a warrior because it hits too hard? or should we also remove shadowmeld from night elf warrs because they can use charge twice in a fight? Keep listening to all the QQers and soon you'll have yourself a mess of custom nerfs to races and classes and other BS just because people wont try hard enough to get good with their classes and races of choice to counter something as stupid as a racial. I guess people never heard of double fear for warlocks or using quick rank 1 frostbolts after frost nova for mages, or hamstring followed by shield bash to keep targets slowed. All of that was used to get people to waste the trink. But i guess its easier to QQ and get everything handed to you then to actually learn to pvp. Good job keep it up.

.Abcess · #2 » Post by **.Abcess** » 16 Jul 2015 14:10

If you want vanilla content, humans don't have EMFH. They have Perception.

#3 » Post by **Roel** » 16 Jul 2015 14:11

Like said, the racial wasn't available in Vanilla. In WotLK, the PvP trinkets have a 2 minute CD. Not only that but they provide a lot of resilience (which makes double DPS/heal trinket less OP) so the intended advantage of the racial was much lower than what we had before it got disabled. Also if you care about doing BGs, this way you will actually be able to get BGs started because hordes will join the queue.

Constructive feedback is welcome but I am afraid your post doesn't help much and is the definition of the "QQ" that you mentioned.

#4 » Post by **Clevanisty** » 16 Jul 2015 14:26

It is true that the racial was not within the Vanilla version of wow, but the same with some of the talents and spells that classes get. So you replace the WOTLK racial for the vanilla racial but not replace the talents. Even if we are talking about racial traits, night elves (for example) still has access to the racial trait of Elusiveness which was adding in WOTLK, so why is the other races with any kind of racial benefit that was added in WOTLK not had it removed, whereas humans have?

#5 » Post by **Arturo** » 16 Jul 2015 14:27

Abcess wrote:If you want vanilla content, humans don't have EMFH. They have Perception.

This isnt a vanilla server. Meaning we arent running vanilla clients for exclusively vanilla content. Its Wrath clients for vanilla content. And waiting 6 years to get the racial back is also going to be excessive. And besides "Perception: Dramatically increases stealth detection for 20 seconds. 3 min cooldown" is how it was in vanilla. That is hilariously useless even now. And its probably why it EMFH was added to wrath in the first place. Even at passive all a rogue has to do is put points in master of deception to counter that racial. Honestly humans now don't have a useful pvp racial while most races do.

#6 » Post by **Roel** » 16 Jul 2015 14:41

The races are now better balanced then they were, some other races have pretty useless racials.
Also: www.primalwow.org/statistics

#7 » Post by **Arturo** » 16 Jul 2015 14:43

Prime wrote: Also if you care about doing BGs, this way you will actually be able to get BGs started because hordes will join the queue.

Sorry if it sounded rude but that is just a very questionable call. And well now the only good alliance class for pvp are nightelves if you play a warrior but every other class will be useless. And even then going up against taurens that can interrupt a critical cast, Orcs that can have an attack power buff and trolls that can cast spells very quickly for a short time is going to be pretty unbalanced since those are all very offensive style abilities where as EMFH was defensive. That human racial added balance to pvp whether we like it or not.

#8 » Post by **Urdead** » 16 Jul 2015 16:52

My opinion, as an alliance player, is that the human racial is too OP at this time. And that's why i didn't choose that race in the first place.
And they don't have to wait for WotLK to add it, since the pvp trinket (2 min cd) was added in TBC if i'm not wrong.

#9 » Post by **iamadp** » 16 Jul 2015 17:03

This may balance out the factions as well. I know most of our guild went human for this trinket.

As much as i enjoyed escaping any movement impairing effect I felt it was too OP.

.doctorwho · #10 » Post by **.doctorwho** » 16 Jul 2015 18:06

I have to agree that EMFH is OP. However, I think a case could be made for keeping it so long as it had a very long CD, say anywhere from 20-30 min. That would basically give it one use per BG.

#11 » Post by **Lanfeare** » 16 Jul 2015 18:11

I agree that something needed to be done, but I don't think that the complete removal of this racial was it. Humans are now by far the weakest PvP race without a single useful PvP racial, whereas every other class gets a useful PvP racial (blood fury/hardiness, hp/war stomp, berserking, WOTF, escape artist, stoneform, and shadowmeld). Those all represent the kind of abilities that you would have to equip a trinket for. That's why humans were given a free trinket racial in the first place. They have nothing else of worth. The imbalance with the racial was due to the racial having a lower cooldown in this vanilla content than the trinket. A reduction in cost and cooldown for the PvP trinket or an increase in the cooldown of the racial would have brought class balance in line. This change is a classic knee-jerk over-nerfing of something that was too powerful. Humans had several of their racial abilities nerfed to make room for that trinket racial (perception, the spirit buff, and the weapon skills were all far stronger in vanilla), and now we're stuck with the worst of both worlds, so much so that humans are going to be at the very bottom of every optimizer's list for every single class. I hope that this gets fixed and a properly balanced fix replaces it.

#12 » Post by **trapchristian** » 16 Jul 2015 18:37

Maybe you should add the old vanilla human racial that increases stealth detection give a racial that is useful for PvP for humans, as Lan pointed out there is currently none.

#13 » Post by **Roel** » 16 Jul 2015 18:44

The only other thing I can think of is making the blue TBC trinket available at level 60. It gives 20 resilience which would balance it better with other trinkets although resilience isn't available for any other items at level 60.

#14 » Post by **murbarron** » 16 Jul 2015 18:47

Yeah but we don't play here cause we want true vanilla experience. We want WOTLk experience in Vanilla environment.

#15 » Post by **Lanfeare** » 16 Jul 2015 18:54

They would likely have to do more than that to get anybody in their right mind to play a human without every man for himself. The weapon skills racial was 4x better in vanilla, the spirit racial was twice as good, and perception was nearly infinitely better (since now it only has a minor impact on stealth vs stealth battles of the same magnitude as the NE racial while it used to be extremely potent if you knew a stealth was around regardless of if you were in stealth yourself). I don't see any way to prevent humans from being the dunce race without re-implementing EMFH in a more balanced fashion or buffing the other racials immensely.

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