Same thing happens in democracy....but lets not turn this into a form of government argument! (I do like socialism but the amount of taxation just isn't for me. Help the poor, tax the rich)Roel wrote:More like 1/100...Cover25 wrote:and seeing how there's such a limited amount of responses (probably 1/10 of the server came here to vote)
Well according to the statics we have 17k active accounts of which some are from the same person. 63 forum accounts voted here of which some are from the same person. So according to that it's something like 1/250... Whatever you call democracy.
[Accepted] Multiboxing
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Cover25
Re: Multiboxing
Re: Multiboxing
Quiet honestly there is not 1 thing that anyone can abuse more with multi-boxing software than anyone can abuse right now at this moment without using it. Multi-boxing is already allowed going by the server rules. The only change this topic and poll are really about is allowing the use of Blizzard approved software. This topic is more so setting the fine line of what is deemed legal to do or bannable.Kindzadza wrote:I already said pages earlier that people will abuse this.And this is a ROLE playing game,not ROLES.
If you do try multi-boxing, and you give it a chance and not get aggravated with it, you will never want to return to single player mode on World of Warcraft other than farming. It is a whole new type of gameplay with plenty of obstacles for you to try and overcome; a really good learning experience. WotlK has been around a few years now, and there is very limited new content to look forward to. Multi-boxing can be a new challenge for you and can make WotlK way more interesting for you.
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Cover25
Re: Multiboxing
Will be closing this pull a week from friday. Two weeks is a good enough time. Torie, please ask BC players to come vote on this.
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Dragonmaster
Re: Multiboxing
I voted yes, i have not seen many multiboxers on BC that used it outside of a trading situation, similiar to the mentioned above, the only one i heard. The only situations i know of are torie, and occasional guildie useing it to fill spots in raids that we can't already fill, thus nabbing extra EOF for an alt that would ordinarily miss out that week. I don't personally forsee much trouble with this.
Re: Multiboxing
Made a post on Bloodcraft redirecting them to here.Cover25 wrote:Will be closing this pull a week from friday. Two weeks is a good enough time. Torie, please ask BC players to come vote on this.
@Dragonmaster- Thank you for your vote sir!
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Cover25
Re: Multiboxing
And as I said before, if the players here vote no, or yes, that will be the final verdict until someone else requests it some time from now. I feel this could help, but if X feels it can't, and X's voice is greater than Y's, I'll listen.
Re: Multiboxing
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." - Winston Churchill. - http://debatewise.org/debates/2154-demo ... overnment/ .
Both Democracy and America have great faults. Ill leave America s faults for now because I dont want to start a political war here. And by saying that America has faults I dont mean that other countries dont. But Ill comment on the Democracy one because it does concern us at the moment.
This comment says it very clearly : " Simply put: two wolves and a sheep vote what they will have for dinner. That is the other face of democracy. The sheep has all the freedom to vote, right? Democracy is all about the majority. The minority has very little to say." - This comment isnt mine. Both comments of Churchill and John Smith Jr s imply the same thing . - Democracy is the best form of government created until now. But Democracy isnt perfect , it is far from perfect. In it the majority always has the upper hand over the minority even if the majority is wrong.
The other problem with the so called ''majority'' is that it can be easily fooled or even bought. - How ? - Ill give you a personal example - in my country ( Bulgaria) there are 3 types of people - rich , normal and poor. (If you are wondering from which one am I - I am from the normal ones - and that is with great effort from my mother.) And the country is majorly consisted from ethnic bulgarians and gypsies. All people born in Bulgaria are called ''bulgarians''. So people from other countries think that ethnic bulgarians are the gypsies too but that is not right. - The gypsies have come like nomads from other countries - no one knows where from - and when those idiotic politicians of ours didnt drive them away they started having children and because those children are born in Bulgaria they are bulgarians - e.g. can stay here. So what is the problem with the gypsies ? - It is that the majority of them (of course not ALL of them but a good 90% of them) are dirty,stupid and lazy.They have a LOT of children (and by a lot I mean at least 10 every family) - usually that isnt a bad thing but they dont take care of them - rather sending them to school they send them to beg for money - and by the way they are really impudent. All could have been well if they wanted to get educated and start making money and etc. but they only take money from the government which for every child gives them around 100-150 leva which is probably around 70 - 100 $. And if you are wondering that isnt that much but still it is a lot especially with so much children. And also they steal and rob a lot. The reason I wrote this is because I want you to get the general idea. So let me continue : To be honest our government is known to be one of the most corrupt ones. That is why almost all of our politicians are rich. And now here s the deal : When they are in power they steal and get more money and then when they have to be re-elected they simply go and buy the gypsies votes and this is how the cycle closes. I dont say that we bulgarians are a lot better - there are a lot of stupid and poor (because of laziness) bulgarians too , but even they are better than the gypsies because they at least have normal homes like apartments and are smarter too. Also our government cant find money because when communism fell there was a person who gave a few people a lot of government money with the deal that when they set their business they will return even more money , but those people killed that person and stole the money. And since then things have been getting worse for us. To be honest from the things I heard from my parents they said that when communism reigned it was better in some ways - there were little things to buy in the shops BUT you could afford them. And now there are a lot of things but you cant afford much more than the major things. And this plus the fact that we were under slavery for around 5 centuries which stopped our economic development.
- I wrote all of this for you guys to get the general idea - and it is that a poor and stupid majority is easily controllable. It isnt that different in other countries like America too - it is just a bit more complicated and on a grander scale. But to be honest guys there is one thing I am almost 100% sure and proud of - the average bulgarian is much smarter than the average american - that is because we do not put so much blind trust in our government like the americans do and that can be seen not only from us but other nationalities too. By that I dont say that americans are stupid but that their majority is also like ours but a bit better maybe.
I wrote all of this above for you to see that a decision must be taken on right choices and right choices are made with thinking. If you always listen to the majority it may not bring good things but exactly the opposite and that is because the voice of the majority may not be that of the majority at all - but that of a few people who have bought the majority.
By the way guys I have been thinking about an add in Democracy - before someone is given the right to vote he first has to take a test with questions from different subjects - majourly from History,Ethics and Law and Logics. That is to prove that he can think for himself and wont be bought by someone. And if he fails that test to not be given the right to vote until he passes that test.
Both Democracy and America have great faults. Ill leave America s faults for now because I dont want to start a political war here. And by saying that America has faults I dont mean that other countries dont. But Ill comment on the Democracy one because it does concern us at the moment.
This comment says it very clearly : " Simply put: two wolves and a sheep vote what they will have for dinner. That is the other face of democracy. The sheep has all the freedom to vote, right? Democracy is all about the majority. The minority has very little to say." - This comment isnt mine. Both comments of Churchill and John Smith Jr s imply the same thing . - Democracy is the best form of government created until now. But Democracy isnt perfect , it is far from perfect. In it the majority always has the upper hand over the minority even if the majority is wrong.
The other problem with the so called ''majority'' is that it can be easily fooled or even bought. - How ? - Ill give you a personal example - in my country ( Bulgaria) there are 3 types of people - rich , normal and poor. (If you are wondering from which one am I - I am from the normal ones - and that is with great effort from my mother.) And the country is majorly consisted from ethnic bulgarians and gypsies. All people born in Bulgaria are called ''bulgarians''. So people from other countries think that ethnic bulgarians are the gypsies too but that is not right. - The gypsies have come like nomads from other countries - no one knows where from - and when those idiotic politicians of ours didnt drive them away they started having children and because those children are born in Bulgaria they are bulgarians - e.g. can stay here. So what is the problem with the gypsies ? - It is that the majority of them (of course not ALL of them but a good 90% of them) are dirty,stupid and lazy.They have a LOT of children (and by a lot I mean at least 10 every family) - usually that isnt a bad thing but they dont take care of them - rather sending them to school they send them to beg for money - and by the way they are really impudent. All could have been well if they wanted to get educated and start making money and etc. but they only take money from the government which for every child gives them around 100-150 leva which is probably around 70 - 100 $. And if you are wondering that isnt that much but still it is a lot especially with so much children. And also they steal and rob a lot. The reason I wrote this is because I want you to get the general idea. So let me continue : To be honest our government is known to be one of the most corrupt ones. That is why almost all of our politicians are rich. And now here s the deal : When they are in power they steal and get more money and then when they have to be re-elected they simply go and buy the gypsies votes and this is how the cycle closes. I dont say that we bulgarians are a lot better - there are a lot of stupid and poor (because of laziness) bulgarians too , but even they are better than the gypsies because they at least have normal homes like apartments and are smarter too. Also our government cant find money because when communism fell there was a person who gave a few people a lot of government money with the deal that when they set their business they will return even more money , but those people killed that person and stole the money. And since then things have been getting worse for us. To be honest from the things I heard from my parents they said that when communism reigned it was better in some ways - there were little things to buy in the shops BUT you could afford them. And now there are a lot of things but you cant afford much more than the major things. And this plus the fact that we were under slavery for around 5 centuries which stopped our economic development.
- I wrote all of this for you guys to get the general idea - and it is that a poor and stupid majority is easily controllable. It isnt that different in other countries like America too - it is just a bit more complicated and on a grander scale. But to be honest guys there is one thing I am almost 100% sure and proud of - the average bulgarian is much smarter than the average american - that is because we do not put so much blind trust in our government like the americans do and that can be seen not only from us but other nationalities too. By that I dont say that americans are stupid but that their majority is also like ours but a bit better maybe.
I wrote all of this above for you to see that a decision must be taken on right choices and right choices are made with thinking. If you always listen to the majority it may not bring good things but exactly the opposite and that is because the voice of the majority may not be that of the majority at all - but that of a few people who have bought the majority.
By the way guys I have been thinking about an add in Democracy - before someone is given the right to vote he first has to take a test with questions from different subjects - majourly from History,Ethics and Law and Logics. That is to prove that he can think for himself and wont be bought by someone. And if he fails that test to not be given the right to vote until he passes that test.
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Re: Multiboxing
This poll is about multi-boxing. Anything about Democracy is not really necessary. Just vote yes or no and be done with it.
Biscuit - Level 80 Arms/Fury Warrior (Horde)
Bisquick - Level 80 Feral Druid (Formerly Narcissa's) (Horde)
Bisquit - Level 80 Elemental/Resto Shaman (Horde)
Biscadin - Level 80 Retribution/Holy Paladin (Horde)
Bisclock - Level 80 Affliction Warlock (Ally)
Bisc - Level 80 Shadow Priest (Ally)
Biscation - Level 80 Retribution/Holy Paladin (Ally)
Formerly known as Patregis - Undead Rogue
Bisquick - Level 80 Feral Druid (Formerly Narcissa's) (Horde)
Bisquit - Level 80 Elemental/Resto Shaman (Horde)
Biscadin - Level 80 Retribution/Holy Paladin (Horde)
Bisclock - Level 80 Affliction Warlock (Ally)
Bisc - Level 80 Shadow Priest (Ally)
Biscation - Level 80 Retribution/Holy Paladin (Ally)
Formerly known as Patregis - Undead Rogue
Roel wrote:What's wrong with your brains?
Re: Multiboxing
Really? Are you sure if it isnt necessary ? After all the way the decisions are made are based on some kind of philosophy - and as far as I can see this philosophy is the Democratic one so it is necessary to point out what are the weak points in it so it can be changed for the better.It is a pity that people dont want to make a change for the better. I wonder why is that ? - From fear, laziness or stupidity?
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Re: Multiboxing
As I said I am not discussing politic, I am discussing the way of thinking - the above is just an example of wrong thinking - I am talking about my post. You yourself started talking about politics when you said ''Democratic'' so I am stating what is wrong with that kind of philosophy and - with that kind of politics so I can give a good example. After all our philosophy dictates all of our decisions and that isnt politics. But politics are dictated by our major philosophy and if that major philosophy has faults those faults should be fixed not only because of the so called politics but because our everyday life and that is simply is to improve our and others existence.
And by that all I simply want to say why shouldnt this topic be decided on a pool that may be fraudulent but on solid reasons which should be processed by the GMs and then they should take the decision.
And by that all I simply want to say why shouldnt this topic be decided on a pool that may be fraudulent but on solid reasons which should be processed by the GMs and then they should take the decision.
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Cover25
Re: Multiboxing
Cover25 wrote:
Same thing happens in democracy....but lets not turn this into a form of government argument! (I do like socialism but the amount of taxation just isn't for me. Help the poor, tax the rich)
Re: Multiboxing
Yes, I see but as I said I am NOT trying to turn this in a government argument - I am simply pointing out what is wrong with this type of vote/decision system , and what I wrote was simply an example, to be honest you may have a point - as I look back it seems that I have really wrote a lot about politics , I may have carried myself away a bit... but I just wanted to say/this is what it is all about in a collective manner :
You GMs shouldnt decide simply on the votes of this or other pools - why? Well Roel himself and even you agreed that this poll hasnt been voted by the majority of Truewow and as I said you should put some kind of message with an appeal to the players to come read, state their opinion and vote. Also Roel said that a lot of these so called votes come from 1 person who has made multiple accounts - and that is what I meant on corrupt votes.It is hard to come up with a decision when you cant see or you are not sure if this is the ''vote of the people'' but isnt taking a decision solely because of the votes in polls a bit like washing your hands with them ? I mean we all agree that a person should first explain himself and then vote right? So why dont we just make people simply comment their decision and then vote so there is simply no way of cheating on this. And also by posting their arguments other people can counter them and convince the person that that may not be the right decision - and simply this way we can get to a common decision with which we all agree. As far as I saw the arguments in this post for against multiboxing (forgot the exact name of it - key-clones?) have been countered and can be easily solved with adding more rules for multiboxing with which we all agree. So as far as I remmeber in the above posts that Roel wrote his decision with a full list of where and what will be allowed for multiboxing - ( "
I say we remake the poll with the choices:
Yes, except in BGs.
No
People assume that it should either be disallowed or allowed completely but we can keep it forbidden to some extend.
Battlegrounds:
I really think it shouldn't be allowed here as you're hurting your team and they have no option to kick you.
Arena:
You're only hurting yourself here except that you don't need to wait for an arena partner to come online. Other teams will be happy if they face you so why not allow it here for those very few people that would consider doing this.
Dungeons:
You're hurting nobody if you go alone. If you have less than 5 clients and queue RDF then the other players could also just leave if it doesn't work out. But dungeons are not that hard so there is a good chance of success and especially at low levels it will give shorter queues.
Raids:
It will always be the raid leader that decides who can join the raid, multiboxing won't be viable in endgame raids and will not happen there whether we allow it or not. However it can make pre-WotLK raids more active and maybe a relative easy raid like Naxx.
World:
It's really mostly leveling here, there is barely any PvP. You just need to be a few levels higher to gank a multiboxer just like when you would try to gank a party of different players. More kills for you if you succeed. " )
but then Intervention wrote : "
If the poll says no. Then it's a no. :/"
- and also before that Kindzadza: "I don't want to go in details man,I just posted today because I was surprised by the results. :/"
- for Intervention and the others that think that way I was pointing out why it is wrong to do so , and for Kindzadza I wrote why a person should explain himself and not just vote.
In the end you GMs decide and that cannot be countered - for now I am just a player stating his opinion , I am just writing to you what is the best way to decide so you can make the right decision.
You GMs shouldnt decide simply on the votes of this or other pools - why? Well Roel himself and even you agreed that this poll hasnt been voted by the majority of Truewow and as I said you should put some kind of message with an appeal to the players to come read, state their opinion and vote. Also Roel said that a lot of these so called votes come from 1 person who has made multiple accounts - and that is what I meant on corrupt votes.It is hard to come up with a decision when you cant see or you are not sure if this is the ''vote of the people'' but isnt taking a decision solely because of the votes in polls a bit like washing your hands with them ? I mean we all agree that a person should first explain himself and then vote right? So why dont we just make people simply comment their decision and then vote so there is simply no way of cheating on this. And also by posting their arguments other people can counter them and convince the person that that may not be the right decision - and simply this way we can get to a common decision with which we all agree. As far as I saw the arguments in this post for against multiboxing (forgot the exact name of it - key-clones?) have been countered and can be easily solved with adding more rules for multiboxing with which we all agree. So as far as I remmeber in the above posts that Roel wrote his decision with a full list of where and what will be allowed for multiboxing - ( "
I say we remake the poll with the choices:
Yes, except in BGs.
No
People assume that it should either be disallowed or allowed completely but we can keep it forbidden to some extend.
Battlegrounds:
I really think it shouldn't be allowed here as you're hurting your team and they have no option to kick you.
Arena:
You're only hurting yourself here except that you don't need to wait for an arena partner to come online. Other teams will be happy if they face you so why not allow it here for those very few people that would consider doing this.
Dungeons:
You're hurting nobody if you go alone. If you have less than 5 clients and queue RDF then the other players could also just leave if it doesn't work out. But dungeons are not that hard so there is a good chance of success and especially at low levels it will give shorter queues.
Raids:
It will always be the raid leader that decides who can join the raid, multiboxing won't be viable in endgame raids and will not happen there whether we allow it or not. However it can make pre-WotLK raids more active and maybe a relative easy raid like Naxx.
World:
It's really mostly leveling here, there is barely any PvP. You just need to be a few levels higher to gank a multiboxer just like when you would try to gank a party of different players. More kills for you if you succeed. " )
but then Intervention wrote : "
If the poll says no. Then it's a no. :/"
- and also before that Kindzadza: "I don't want to go in details man,I just posted today because I was surprised by the results. :/"
- for Intervention and the others that think that way I was pointing out why it is wrong to do so , and for Kindzadza I wrote why a person should explain himself and not just vote.
In the end you GMs decide and that cannot be countered - for now I am just a player stating his opinion , I am just writing to you what is the best way to decide so you can make the right decision.
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Cover25
Re: Multiboxing
1. BGs won;t be an issue as you start your own bg. They should be allowed in BGS.
2. try multiboxing in naxx and you'll be roflstomped faster than you can blink. Naxx takes tactics.
3. There's constant world PVP going on.
2. try multiboxing in naxx and you'll be roflstomped faster than you can blink. Naxx takes tactics.
3. There's constant world PVP going on.
Re: Multiboxing
1. Could you please explain that in detail because I cant get the idea?
2.Exactly my point. But in a Raid with other people that may be a problem if they dont know you are a multiboxer.
3.I know and agree.
2.Exactly my point. But in a Raid with other people that may be a problem if they dont know you are a multiboxer.
3.I know and agree.
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