Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

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exchanger1
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Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#76 » Post by exchanger1 » 09 Mar 2020 04:08

Justicelight wrote:
11 Feb 2020 15:01
Crown wrote:
30 Nov 2014 19:56

2.2 Rune Grace Period priority

Once you have used all your runic abilities (Obliterate, Blood Strike..) as soon as they come off, use this priority system without going past the Rune Grace Period (2.5s) which translates to one global cooldown which is either
Full Runic Power Frost Strike or Killing Machine Frost Strike
Howling Blast with Rime
Frost Strike
Horn of Winter
Hey Crown, could you explain a bit why I shouldn`t go past 2.5 seconds? Would this place my rune cd back to 10 seconds, if time spent after rune became ready and when I used it passes 2.5 seconds?
It would place it back to 10s iirc
Crown aka Poslednji

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alinbanciu
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Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#77 » Post by alinbanciu » 08 May 2021 02:49

Crown wrote:
30 Nov 2014 19:56

3.7 Professions

Engineering (With the release of Ruby Sanctum, Frost can get Sharpened Twilight Scale and easily cap ArPen, without a Blacksmithing profession and still have benefits of an Engineer. Also, an excellent profession if you have a strength build.)
Jewelcrafting (+34 bonus ArPen/Strength)
Blacksmithing comes next (additional sockets to cap ArPen or simply gem strength).
Even with arp cap as engineering/JC, wouldnt BS/JC ensure a better stats cap and dps?

With Icy talons buff, wep speed goes from 1.92 to 1.6. When using haste cooldown, this goes down even more, to 1.42 speed. You then keep this 1.42 speed for 12 seconds, which is around 0.2 speed gain per each attack. In 12 seconds you manage to do 12 / 1.6 = 7.5 attacks. Then if you calculate the diff gain with 0.2 speed x 7.5 = you end up with 1.5 seconds active gain.

So TL DR you manage to gain an extra auto attack (or lets say two, since dual wield) every 1 minute, cause thats the cd of engi hands.

Now if you compare it to BS....what you gain is 2 extra sockets + hands enchant. IF you go full dps enchant/gems, the gain will be around 20 str (44 ap enchant) + 40 from sockets = 60 str = 132 ap.....or gem some hit, which will give better KM ppm proc flows + extra whites.

So to repeat the question, BS can be better than Engi?

Hopefully you're still checking forums to give an answer.

Thanks!

~Justicelight

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exchanger1
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Joined: 13 Mar 2014 19:38

Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#78 » Post by exchanger1 » 11 May 2021 23:24

alinbanciu wrote:
08 May 2021 02:49
Crown wrote:
30 Nov 2014 19:56

3.7 Professions

Engineering (With the release of Ruby Sanctum, Frost can get Sharpened Twilight Scale and easily cap ArPen, without a Blacksmithing profession and still have benefits of an Engineer. Also, an excellent profession if you have a strength build.)
Jewelcrafting (+34 bonus ArPen/Strength)
Blacksmithing comes next (additional sockets to cap ArPen or simply gem strength).
Even with arp cap as engineering/JC, wouldnt BS/JC ensure a better stats cap and dps?

With Icy talons buff, wep speed goes from 1.92 to 1.6. When using haste cooldown, this goes down even more, to 1.42 speed. You then keep this 1.42 speed for 12 seconds, which is around 0.2 speed gain per each attack. In 12 seconds you manage to do 12 / 1.6 = 7.5 attacks. Then if you calculate the diff gain with 0.2 speed x 7.5 = you end up with 1.5 seconds active gain.

So TL DR you manage to gain an extra auto attack (or lets say two, since dual wield) every 1 minute, cause thats the cd of engi hands.

Now if you compare it to BS....what you gain is 2 extra sockets + hands enchant. IF you go full dps enchant/gems, the gain will be around 20 str (44 ap enchant) + 40 from sockets = 60 str = 132 ap.....or gem some hit, which will give better KM ppm proc flows + extra whites.

So to repeat the question, BS can be better than Engi?

Hopefully you're still checking forums to give an answer.

Thanks!

~Justicelight
Don't really remember my sims well regarding that, but I can tell you that the dps difference is noticable (if you also do saronite bombs every minute)

i assume the dps difference is 15ish without saronite bombs in favor of engineering (could be wrong tho it could be more)

it is important to note that Engi gloves active is paired with unbreakable armor, and potentially more DPS stacking buffs like trinket buffs, sigil buff, runeforging buff (specially at the beginning of the fight) so it's even more impactful than isolating haste alone

I haven't explained this in the guide, the cd stacking thing, but tldr is

ideally you want all your cds to proc at the same time, than having one after another, because the effect on dps is multiplicative

this is why it's useful to have an addon that tracks cds of trinkets (like dbw/sts or even runeforging buff)

this can be controlled to a degree of course, such as using the same macro for activating both engi gloves and unbreakable armor, using ams when you think you can get the most buffs (if its a high rp output fight), erw when you are about to have obliterates lined up and when you get many cds active (second erw of course), etc
Crown aka Poslednji

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alinbanciu
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Re: Frost DK 3.3.5a DPS PvE Guide

#79 » Post by alinbanciu » 12 May 2021 00:05

exchanger1 wrote:
11 May 2021 23:24

it is important to note that Engi gloves active is paired with unbreakable armor, and potentially more DPS stacking buffs like trinket buffs, sigil buff, runeforging buff (specially at the beginning of the fight) so it's even more impactful than isolating haste alone

I haven't explained this in the guide, the cd stacking thing, but tldr is

ideally you want all your cds to proc at the same time, than having one after another, because the effect on dps is multiplicative
Thanks for the fast answer. I get what you mean with the multiplicative effect, but that kinda get most benefit in % strength/damage increase buffs. If you look at haste, with our already fast attack speed, the haste DR on engi hands is huge and we get smaller benefit from it, that's why I was asking you about this.
The value of hit until spell hit cap is higher than haste and critical, therefore, you should prioritize Etched over Fierce/Inscribed Ametrine.
Is this the case mainly because of the pestilence miss chance? Or it takes into account the reduction of white misses which can increase dps better than haste gems?

I am currently having 249 hit rating, and with BS I could reach with hands enchant + one gem the pestilence cap (289) + get extra whites and smoother KM procs. If I`ll ultimately get BS, maybe it`s better. to reach the hit cap..idk. Overall I get it, I think if you manage to do tap+ua+engi hands in the execution phase (>35% hp) this can greatly increase the use of engi, but its somewhat random, especially in PP/LoD fights + other fights duration time.

Another question, regarding rotation:

Since my opener is: IT PS Obli BS Tap+UA Pesti...the following rotation goes into Obli Obli Obli ..... Obli Obli BS Pesti. Ideally is to do BS Pesti. Here is the question now: I find myself usually locked out when Tap UA comes ready and at that point i get into this rotation: Obli Obli.... <1 sec left on TAP UA> .... BS or Pesti? Everytime I get Tap Ua ready should I just straightforward use Pesti first then do Tap UA? This desyncs my runes a lot. Another workaround I have found, which seems smoother in rotation as well, is to do Tap+UA after 3rd Obli, like.....Obli Obli BS Pesti....Obli Obli Obli <Tap UA> <cancel Tap>....Obli Obli BS Pesti...repeat. I`d like your insight on how to handle Tap UA in mid fight, giving the fact I have my blood runes ready 1 or 2 sec before Tap UA is ready.

Thanks and sry for wall text! <3

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