Thanks for your response Jetteroo.
First up, I know how lrctgl tanked during Moroes as I am in fact the raid leader of the group he was tanking in. and while the tanking might not be a big problem in groups that are among the top of progression like mine, do consider that if changes are made to tweak tanking in heroics rdf it might also impact and trivialize tanking in the raiding enviroment. Unless those 2 can be treated as independent instances.
Secondly, I don't really believe that dps classes having access to different talents poses as an argument to threat management, idk if you can try to expand on what you mean with this.
Thirdly, I'd argue for that the server is trying to emulate a tbc experience on a wotlk platform, just as it beforehand was trying to emulate a vanilla experience on a wotlk platform, one thing that comes to mind is the four horsemen, which had their mechanics changed to vanilla style rather than wotlk to require 8 tanks.
Prot pally single target threat
Re: Prot pally single target threat
hi theBomb, thankr you to replying so quick.
1) Re moroes fight i have tanked with both druid and warrior tanks and the experience is - if i dun tank moroes 1st very difficult to maintain second threat after. this means that both druids and warriors can generate more threat than prot paladins without getting hit by that boss/add. prot paladins atm generate a lotof threat from being attacked rather than attacking, not sure if thats the intent?
2) what i meant is was to your response about tbc/vanilla different from wotlk. even dps spec trees in general have changed so thats what i meant so its difficult to compare threat vs tbc/vanilla
3) while the emulation is fine, then we also need to consider the different mechanics and talent trees that make it different from a pure vanilla/tbc. Which is what i m stressing on. We should not just simply compare to tbc/vanilla and say tbc/vanilla was like that. I m not arguing on that fact that the content is tbc i m saying we need to remember that the mechanics(haste etc) and talent trees are not - they are wotlk
1) Re moroes fight i have tanked with both druid and warrior tanks and the experience is - if i dun tank moroes 1st very difficult to maintain second threat after. this means that both druids and warriors can generate more threat than prot paladins without getting hit by that boss/add. prot paladins atm generate a lotof threat from being attacked rather than attacking, not sure if thats the intent?
2) what i meant is was to your response about tbc/vanilla different from wotlk. even dps spec trees in general have changed so thats what i meant so its difficult to compare threat vs tbc/vanilla
3) while the emulation is fine, then we also need to consider the different mechanics and talent trees that make it different from a pure vanilla/tbc. Which is what i m stressing on. We should not just simply compare to tbc/vanilla and say tbc/vanilla was like that. I m not arguing on that fact that the content is tbc i m saying we need to remember that the mechanics(haste etc) and talent trees are not - they are wotlk
Re: Prot pally single target threat
exactly, just keep one thing in mind:
why did you guys choose to play on a wotlk client with a emulated vanilla and tbc environment (and later move on to northrend)? i don't think the only reason was progressing through all 3 expansion..
i can tell you what my reason to join this server was. i liked the idea to play TBC with wotlk mechanics. why? not because i wanted it easier. because vanilla content is cool and TBC content is great. but vanilla and tbc mechanics sucked. TBC mechanics improved a lot compared to vanilla, a lot of specs and playstyles that were impossible could now be played more or less properly. but there were still weaknesses. some specs were only reduced to being played as a buffbitch or supportbitch. disc priest was pretty much only a pvp spec. so now we have unfinished talent trees, missing glyphs, missing spells (that should balance the classes in a lvl 80 environment) in a lvl 70 environment and it fucks up a lot of the balancing and leaves a lot of classes and specs a lot weaker than they should be and some other classes and specs a lot stronger than they should be. i agree with you blomb, that not everything can be made equally good and it is actually not easy to balance stuff like this on a server like primal wow. what i am trying to do here is write from my experiences and to give feedback.
if not all classes and specs should be equally strong, then i have to ask, why feral dps and hunter have been buffed? because obviously some1 thought it was too weak. and because "we don't want to make the same mistake again and we want to make sure people enjoy playing all specs and classes".
so if you prefer the real vanilla and tbc experience then i need to ask, why dont we have change the talents and mechanics to TBC? or just play on a TBC server? XD
i agree one one thing tho, aggro management is also responsibilty of dps and there are even some nice colorful addons for it.
why did you guys choose to play on a wotlk client with a emulated vanilla and tbc environment (and later move on to northrend)? i don't think the only reason was progressing through all 3 expansion..
i can tell you what my reason to join this server was. i liked the idea to play TBC with wotlk mechanics. why? not because i wanted it easier. because vanilla content is cool and TBC content is great. but vanilla and tbc mechanics sucked. TBC mechanics improved a lot compared to vanilla, a lot of specs and playstyles that were impossible could now be played more or less properly. but there were still weaknesses. some specs were only reduced to being played as a buffbitch or supportbitch. disc priest was pretty much only a pvp spec. so now we have unfinished talent trees, missing glyphs, missing spells (that should balance the classes in a lvl 80 environment) in a lvl 70 environment and it fucks up a lot of the balancing and leaves a lot of classes and specs a lot weaker than they should be and some other classes and specs a lot stronger than they should be. i agree with you blomb, that not everything can be made equally good and it is actually not easy to balance stuff like this on a server like primal wow. what i am trying to do here is write from my experiences and to give feedback.
if not all classes and specs should be equally strong, then i have to ask, why feral dps and hunter have been buffed? because obviously some1 thought it was too weak. and because "we don't want to make the same mistake again and we want to make sure people enjoy playing all specs and classes".
so if you prefer the real vanilla and tbc experience then i need to ask, why dont we have change the talents and mechanics to TBC? or just play on a TBC server? XD
i agree one one thing tho, aggro management is also responsibilty of dps and there are even some nice colorful addons for it.
Re: Prot pally single target threat
I think that we can all agree that primal is not a "true tbc experience", I play on the server, because it has progression that I can commit myself to for years, with rdf and wotlk talents which I liked a lot, along with a wonderful community to back it up 
.
But as the topic at hand is the viability of prot paladins, I'd say that they are, currently, fine where they are threatwise. I say this because I have seen a pre bis only off spec prot paladin (lrctgl) stay second on threat while not being attacked by the boss. This is even while competing against me, a fully T4 bis equipped rogue more or less.
While this perspective only contains my experience in Karazhan (10-man) I can not yet argue for its functionallity within a 25-man raid, but I doubt the results would differ too much.
.But as the topic at hand is the viability of prot paladins, I'd say that they are, currently, fine where they are threatwise. I say this because I have seen a pre bis only off spec prot paladin (lrctgl) stay second on threat while not being attacked by the boss. This is even while competing against me, a fully T4 bis equipped rogue more or less.
While this perspective only contains my experience in Karazhan (10-man) I can not yet argue for its functionallity within a 25-man raid, but I doubt the results would differ too much.
Re: Prot pally single target threat
Thebomb, I dun really struggle against rogues for threat because they have skills that reduce threat.
It's some other classes and healers that are unable to reduce threat that we have issues. (Shaman, warriors, Ret paladins, mages etc)
And if prot paladins are indeed as fine as you say, why dun we see more prot paladins main tanking heroic instances and end game raids?
I have asked other prot paladins about their experiences in heroic instances. And they mostly agree that the stronger the gear of the Dps and heals, the harder it is for them.
We can poll the audience by checking the server to see how many main tank paladins there are vs warrior and Druid tanks to support what I say.
If what I say is false then there would be a decent percentage of prot paladins tanking instances because everyone wants to play a easier role. Who wants to play a class/role so difficult that you are either being screamed at for underperforming vs other tanks all the time or dropped in preference to another raider?
The numbers speak for themselves. If you were the raid leader, and u have given a choice to choose whoever u wanted to bring to a raid, assuming they all similarly geared, the classes /roles which you would rather bring over another class/role says it all.
Again I want to emphasise that i do not expect all classes/roles to be equal. But when u start seeing very few people playing a certain class/role for pve there must be some issues with that class.
I have not pushed for any tweaking plans because it's so difficult to tweak without unbalancing the entire game situation. I just hope by bringing these issues up to get more attention, we can have a more thorough review of the situation.
I will leave it to the Developers and GMs to exercise good judgement on what should be done. I can only give my suggestions and recommendations.
It's some other classes and healers that are unable to reduce threat that we have issues. (Shaman, warriors, Ret paladins, mages etc)
And if prot paladins are indeed as fine as you say, why dun we see more prot paladins main tanking heroic instances and end game raids?
I have asked other prot paladins about their experiences in heroic instances. And they mostly agree that the stronger the gear of the Dps and heals, the harder it is for them.
We can poll the audience by checking the server to see how many main tank paladins there are vs warrior and Druid tanks to support what I say.
If what I say is false then there would be a decent percentage of prot paladins tanking instances because everyone wants to play a easier role. Who wants to play a class/role so difficult that you are either being screamed at for underperforming vs other tanks all the time or dropped in preference to another raider?
The numbers speak for themselves. If you were the raid leader, and u have given a choice to choose whoever u wanted to bring to a raid, assuming they all similarly geared, the classes /roles which you would rather bring over another class/role says it all.
Again I want to emphasise that i do not expect all classes/roles to be equal. But when u start seeing very few people playing a certain class/role for pve there must be some issues with that class.
I have not pushed for any tweaking plans because it's so difficult to tweak without unbalancing the entire game situation. I just hope by bringing these issues up to get more attention, we can have a more thorough review of the situation.
I will leave it to the Developers and GMs to exercise good judgement on what should be done. I can only give my suggestions and recommendations.
Re: Prot pally single target threat
To pre-fix the below, while i know this is "Wrath of the Burning Crusade" there will always be strengths and weaknesses to each class. For example Paladins have never really been good offtank threat chasers, that is more of a Druid niche. Druids have never been super AoE Tanks etc etc etc.
In terms of Paladin, with regards to being ok maintanks but not great offtanks, this is almost another catch-22. If main tanking is ok (threat isnt in danger of being lost during the duration of a boss fight) but off tanking isnt then in buffing one you are also buffing the other. This comes back to my previous point, Paladins just arent great when not being hit.
In testing prior to TBC, SotR was added to try and aid paladins, this resulted in them pushing 3K TPS in preraid gear which is a little crazy.
Could i ask what gear your tank is using Jetteroo?
Is he running an SP weapon, which seal is he using?
In terms of pulling mobs and getting 'snap' threat. Try Taunt>Exo into normal rotation, the initial holy damage from taunt + exo while the mob runs to you gives a pretty nice threat lead.
Storm/Itburns
In terms of Paladin, with regards to being ok maintanks but not great offtanks, this is almost another catch-22. If main tanking is ok (threat isnt in danger of being lost during the duration of a boss fight) but off tanking isnt then in buffing one you are also buffing the other. This comes back to my previous point, Paladins just arent great when not being hit.
In testing prior to TBC, SotR was added to try and aid paladins, this resulted in them pushing 3K TPS in preraid gear which is a little crazy.
Could i ask what gear your tank is using Jetteroo?
Is he running an SP weapon, which seal is he using?
In terms of pulling mobs and getting 'snap' threat. Try Taunt>Exo into normal rotation, the initial holy damage from taunt + exo while the mob runs to you gives a pretty nice threat lead.
Storm/Itburns
Re: Prot pally single target threat
My main is Noellee - you can check out my gear on armory
Re gear
I have both blade of continuum, archmage and sun eater - i try to swap (AS+consec using continuum/archmage) then swapping back to sun eater during Cds for increased mitigation+more hit damage from normal attacks. but the increased damage from consecretion from sp weapons are not much
I have been resorting to getting more +hit gear to increase my threat by making sure i dun miss, so i have 2 sets of gear per se, one for more hit and one pure mitigation. now going for the expertise ring from LC rep to reduce chance of miss...
it feels pretty complicated to gear/manage paladins at the moment compared to other classes to be honest...
the irony is that in wotlk paladins supposed to use Touched by the Light (30% str = sp) and use strength gear and yet here end up having to use SP weapons and maybe even righteous set to increase their threat... at the risk of losing mitigation and ap (strength) from direct attacks as well as from reckoning talent
Re rotation
Yes i m using AS+consecration to get threat or taunt+exo. seal of vengeance for bosses and SOC for multiple.
Once i get the mob to attack me, and if i m using SOV, even if i dun use exorcism no problem to hold threat at all
The issue is with non tauntable mobs that is the problem, along with those that i aint directly attacking sometimes. Just cannot get enough aggro on them...
As it was discussed - the better geared the party, the harder it is for the prot pally to hold threat....
Re gear
I have both blade of continuum, archmage and sun eater - i try to swap (AS+consec using continuum/archmage) then swapping back to sun eater during Cds for increased mitigation+more hit damage from normal attacks. but the increased damage from consecretion from sp weapons are not much
I have been resorting to getting more +hit gear to increase my threat by making sure i dun miss, so i have 2 sets of gear per se, one for more hit and one pure mitigation. now going for the expertise ring from LC rep to reduce chance of miss...
it feels pretty complicated to gear/manage paladins at the moment compared to other classes to be honest...
the irony is that in wotlk paladins supposed to use Touched by the Light (30% str = sp) and use strength gear and yet here end up having to use SP weapons and maybe even righteous set to increase their threat... at the risk of losing mitigation and ap (strength) from direct attacks as well as from reckoning talent
Re rotation
Yes i m using AS+consecration to get threat or taunt+exo. seal of vengeance for bosses and SOC for multiple.
Once i get the mob to attack me, and if i m using SOV, even if i dun use exorcism no problem to hold threat at all
The issue is with non tauntable mobs that is the problem, along with those that i aint directly attacking sometimes. Just cannot get enough aggro on them...
As it was discussed - the better geared the party, the harder it is for the prot pally to hold threat....
Last edited by jetteroo on 21 Aug 2017 12:40, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Prot pally single target threat
Storm - another way that I can think of in order not to increase off tank and main tank threat is tweak around with avengers shield - somehow increase the threat and decrease the CD while not increasing the damage.
I believe consecration was supposed to help hold aoe threat, and yet thunderclap and to certain extent swipe works way better than consecration...
I believe consecration was supposed to help hold aoe threat, and yet thunderclap and to certain extent swipe works way better than consecration...
Re: Prot pally single target threat
Jetteroo - Potentially shield could be a target to be buffed, although im not sure how easy it is to add a threat modifier to a single spell and im not sure how much difference it would make. Even with a 50% modifier it isnt going to increase sustained AoE TPS.
Consecration always felt ok for me, it was more an issue of ticks being inconsistant. Like a mob could run through Consec and not take a damage tick. For AoE tanking i still feel an SP weapon makes a pretty big difference, for around 100 ish spellpower it can be a nice buff per tick. As we also dont have Hammer, base weapon damage also matters alot less making the case for SP weapons earlier stronger.
Blomb - Could you take a look next raid at the TPS difference between main tank and offtank and see how much of a difference there is? Preferably not on an undead mob
I feel there is maybe a case to tweak RF upwards a tiny bit (maybe 100>120%), its more a case of good evidence.
Other option is a MINOR tweak to STR>SP scaling, but this is a pretty dangerous path later on.
I would guess a 'good' offtank threat TPS would be around the 1.6-2.2k mark? How far is paladin off that currently? (assuming MT is in the 2.2-3.5k tps mark)
Any threat per second numbers and total threat on bosses would be handy.
Also as a note, im nothing to do with Primal anymore so we have to convince other people about this.
Itburns/Storm
Consecration always felt ok for me, it was more an issue of ticks being inconsistant. Like a mob could run through Consec and not take a damage tick. For AoE tanking i still feel an SP weapon makes a pretty big difference, for around 100 ish spellpower it can be a nice buff per tick. As we also dont have Hammer, base weapon damage also matters alot less making the case for SP weapons earlier stronger.
Blomb - Could you take a look next raid at the TPS difference between main tank and offtank and see how much of a difference there is? Preferably not on an undead mob
I feel there is maybe a case to tweak RF upwards a tiny bit (maybe 100>120%), its more a case of good evidence.
Other option is a MINOR tweak to STR>SP scaling, but this is a pretty dangerous path later on.
I would guess a 'good' offtank threat TPS would be around the 1.6-2.2k mark? How far is paladin off that currently? (assuming MT is in the 2.2-3.5k tps mark)
Any threat per second numbers and total threat on bosses would be handy.
Also as a note, im nothing to do with Primal anymore so we have to convince other people about this.
Itburns/Storm
Re: Prot pally single target threat
Storm - thanks for your constructive comments. I will.check omen threat meters this wkend if I do raid, if not next wkend. As well as other instances.
120 additional sp for consecration is not much if I follow the wotlk.evowow. 4% sp means 120 sp gives u like extra 5 damage per tick.
http://wotlk.evowow.com/?spell=48819
Doesn't seem v sexy enough to hold threat Vs say an aoe damage spell. Plus while sp will buff spells, u do lose normal attack DPS of around 40 Vs suneater , consecration cd is 8 sec so u lose 320 DPS for 1 mob if u use continuum Vs sun eater.
Compare that Vs CD for exorcism (cd 15 sec) (I gain say 320 damage assuming u using 40 sp enchant (120+40) x 2 assuming undead )andget similar results but at least u can swap weapon, cast and swap back.
Also let's remember that Kara is mostly undead, if paladins do not even generate enough threat to at least match other tank classes I shudder to think how they will progress in non undead/demon instances....
And yes I remember I use holy wrath for threat in Kara too, which is rather useless unless undead or demon.
I m grateful to you for making quantitative arguments so I will do more analysis and update in this thread.
120 additional sp for consecration is not much if I follow the wotlk.evowow. 4% sp means 120 sp gives u like extra 5 damage per tick.
http://wotlk.evowow.com/?spell=48819
Doesn't seem v sexy enough to hold threat Vs say an aoe damage spell. Plus while sp will buff spells, u do lose normal attack DPS of around 40 Vs suneater , consecration cd is 8 sec so u lose 320 DPS for 1 mob if u use continuum Vs sun eater.
Compare that Vs CD for exorcism (cd 15 sec) (I gain say 320 damage assuming u using 40 sp enchant (120+40) x 2 assuming undead )andget similar results but at least u can swap weapon, cast and swap back.
Also let's remember that Kara is mostly undead, if paladins do not even generate enough threat to at least match other tank classes I shudder to think how they will progress in non undead/demon instances....
And yes I remember I use holy wrath for threat in Kara too, which is rather useless unless undead or demon.
I m grateful to you for making quantitative arguments so I will do more analysis and update in this thread.
Re: Prot pally single target threat
abit if extra info yes i was tanking adds on moroes from the start and didnt start attacking moroes till after they were dead
https://truewow.org/armory/character-ol ... nd&realm=p
is my paladin 3 raid items but rest is from hcs and such i use https://wowgaming.altervista.org/aowow/?item=32660 for aoe tanking and https://wowgaming.altervista.org/aowow/?item=28749 for single target tanking
our single target threat might not be great but our aoe threat is massive wich is kinda the niche a paladin tank has
ultimately i think paladins are fine as is and doesnt need any more buffs than the ones we already got
https://truewow.org/armory/character-ol ... nd&realm=p
is my paladin 3 raid items but rest is from hcs and such i use https://wowgaming.altervista.org/aowow/?item=32660 for aoe tanking and https://wowgaming.altervista.org/aowow/?item=28749 for single target tanking
our single target threat might not be great but our aoe threat is massive wich is kinda the niche a paladin tank has
ultimately i think paladins are fine as is and doesnt need any more buffs than the ones we already got
Re: Prot pally single target threat
have 2 questions for you Irctgl -
1) do you think u can still be 2nd threat on Moroes if he wasnt undead/demon?
2)while you agree that re single threat prot pallies aint as good, you do think that AOE threat for paladins are better than warriors AND feral bears at the moment in primal wow?
If prot paladins threat were working fine then in karazhan they should be top threat in my opinion, as holy wrath, exorcism doing double damage. If you were in an instance without undead and demons then you would see your threat per sec struggling.
The issue also is mana as well. For protection paladins you depend on sov to get more threat, but if you dun get hit (via blessing of sanctuary) then mana issues can be a big issue because you then depend on only judgement of wisdom for mana.
Now if you switch to wisdom seal, then obviously you lose some threat while gaining more mana, which doesn't help you with threat.
This is why consecration and avengers shield mana been reduced pre fix despite righteous set having a consecration cost reduction right? Because everyone knows the mana struggles.
I m not saying prot paladins are totally crap or whatnot, but let's all recognise that they are suffering relatively speaking to other tanking classes. Threat and DPS etc etc are all relative. It's not just about wat just what prot paladins are do by themselves, it's relative.
This is why you are see few prot paladins relative to warrior and even druid tanks. It's making it so difficult to tank heroics then many people give up on playing prot paladins to tank karazhan and beyond.
Just do a mental count of how many tanks that you meet in heroics - prot paladins as well geared as you or to a lesser extent me. I enjoy a challenge of playing a tougher class, (and I could very well play my other spec retribution which is very effective), but when a similar or less geared/skilled druid or warrior tank can make tanking a much better experience to the entire group it doesn't help promote prot paladins as a viable class.
meanwhile i will wait for my next raid to get the TPS from omen....and from instances...
1) do you think u can still be 2nd threat on Moroes if he wasnt undead/demon?
2)while you agree that re single threat prot pallies aint as good, you do think that AOE threat for paladins are better than warriors AND feral bears at the moment in primal wow?
If prot paladins threat were working fine then in karazhan they should be top threat in my opinion, as holy wrath, exorcism doing double damage. If you were in an instance without undead and demons then you would see your threat per sec struggling.
The issue also is mana as well. For protection paladins you depend on sov to get more threat, but if you dun get hit (via blessing of sanctuary) then mana issues can be a big issue because you then depend on only judgement of wisdom for mana.
Now if you switch to wisdom seal, then obviously you lose some threat while gaining more mana, which doesn't help you with threat.
This is why consecration and avengers shield mana been reduced pre fix despite righteous set having a consecration cost reduction right? Because everyone knows the mana struggles.
I m not saying prot paladins are totally crap or whatnot, but let's all recognise that they are suffering relatively speaking to other tanking classes. Threat and DPS etc etc are all relative. It's not just about wat just what prot paladins are do by themselves, it's relative.
This is why you are see few prot paladins relative to warrior and even druid tanks. It's making it so difficult to tank heroics then many people give up on playing prot paladins to tank karazhan and beyond.
Just do a mental count of how many tanks that you meet in heroics - prot paladins as well geared as you or to a lesser extent me. I enjoy a challenge of playing a tougher class, (and I could very well play my other spec retribution which is very effective), but when a similar or less geared/skilled druid or warrior tank can make tanking a much better experience to the entire group it doesn't help promote prot paladins as a viable class.
meanwhile i will wait for my next raid to get the TPS from omen....and from instances...
Re: Prot pally single target threat
What would be the go-to solution for helping Paladin with mana and threat, boosting threat multipliers and reducing mana costs?
Would Divine Plea help with mana, and would Shield of Righteousness fix the threat?
The primary method of establishing consistent mitigation in single-target situations and higher mitigation in AOE situations is getting Lacerate crits, requiring Primal Gore.
Would Divine Plea help with mana, and would Shield of Righteousness fix the threat?
Am I missing something? It doesn't seem like Glaive of the Pit (besides not an easy item for most players on the server to acquire) procs enough or steals enough life per proc for that to be the case. I tested it attacking 8 or so demon hunters on BT roof and it healed about as much as a healing potion, which is definitely a cool use of the item but not much of a game changer (plus it has no other stats except 3 gem slots, so is a major loss to stamina/agi/armor).Anesthesia wrote: ↑18 Aug 2017 14:54the game offers a perfect solution for aoe situations --> https://truewow.org/armory/item.php?item=28774&realm=p
This means that even if the damage taken is slightly higher, healing required will be about the same, or even lower for druids in AoE.
The primary method of establishing consistent mitigation in single-target situations and higher mitigation in AOE situations is getting Lacerate crits, requiring Primal Gore.
Re: Prot pally single target threat
Good point, i've not played in a while so totally forgot about %SP scaling on Consec. Ill see if i can double check the % scaling is the same on Primal, but i'd imagine it will be.jetteroo wrote: ↑21 Aug 2017 14:40120 additional sp for consecration is not much if I follow the wotlk.evowow. 4% sp means 120 sp gives u like extra 5 damage per tick.
http://wotlk.evowow.com/?spell=48819
I think mana may be a issue to keep an eye on, is it still bad even after changes to mana costs (assuming JoW is active only)?
So Divine Plea is an interesting spell with the current setup, it could help solve some mana issues as a short innervate like CD but equally i'd worry it makes paladins feel forced to take 2/2 in Guarded by the Light (which personally i skip) to keep it active. Also, i'd not be sure how easy it would be to tie down to just prot which could prove an issue for holy/ret but i know it was previously considered, so maybe?
In testing prior to TBC release Shield was way too strong as a threat spell. So it would need a lot of thought/tweaking to make it the right fix for this problem. It also maybe sets the wrong standard for issues with other classes (in adding additional spells)
Just my two cents, any data you guys can provide (threat,mana etc) would be helpful to make a case.
Thanks again for your input guys, tankadins will reign supreme!
Itburns/Storm
-
Anesthesia
- Former Staff
- Posts: 180
- Joined: 04 Mar 2016 07:30
Re: Prot pally single target threat
I did a small T4 tank test, aggro and damage taken comparison. Based on this I would say that tanks are near perfect,
All 3 tanks had 2000000 HP, Paladin had 10000 mana
I have disabled all self healing effects (ILotP, JoL, SoL...) <-- with huge health pool percentage healing would be crazy and threat gained would be unrealistic.
Talent Judgements of the Just is currently not available, but I used it anyway because it is the same effect as TC/IW.
I used Vindication in bear form (usually dps warrior would shout, or a shiny paladin would apply Vindication for you <-- druid roar is not as good).
all available damage mitigation defensive abilities and trinkets were used on CD, there was no need to save them for expected burst, I did not use any of those effects at the same time, and I did not try to time them during Sunder Armor debuffs. They were used for maximum uptime while not overlapping. Ironshield potion was used only once at the start of the fight, as soon as the boss started hitting me after I used .damage 2777774 to force him into Phase 2. This was only tested during P2 for 10 minutes!
Notes:
- Paladin was never under 35% HP, Argent Defender 20% mitigation was not active.
- Druid was the only one to have 5 stacks of Sunder Armor (only once, few more times it had 3-4 stacks) .
- Boss is dualwielding with extra attacks from Trash ability, and sunder armor can be blocked, this is certainly not a fight for a druid tank (Damage taken by druid was less than I expected it to be) .
- I am not sure full T4 is the best choice for a warrior tank, I used it anyway.
- I am not sure all of the items used are BiS for T4 content.
I could do something similar on a different fight in the future, but for now, this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
All 3 tanks had 2000000 HP, Paladin had 10000 mana
I have disabled all self healing effects (ILotP, JoL, SoL...) <-- with huge health pool percentage healing would be crazy and threat gained would be unrealistic.
Talent Judgements of the Just is currently not available, but I used it anyway because it is the same effect as TC/IW.
I used Vindication in bear form (usually dps warrior would shout, or a shiny paladin would apply Vindication for you <-- druid roar is not as good).
all available damage mitigation defensive abilities and trinkets were used on CD, there was no need to save them for expected burst, I did not use any of those effects at the same time, and I did not try to time them during Sunder Armor debuffs. They were used for maximum uptime while not overlapping. Ironshield potion was used only once at the start of the fight, as soon as the boss started hitting me after I used .damage 2777774 to force him into Phase 2. This was only tested during P2 for 10 minutes!
Notes:
- Paladin was never under 35% HP, Argent Defender 20% mitigation was not active.
- Druid was the only one to have 5 stacks of Sunder Armor (only once, few more times it had 3-4 stacks) .
- Boss is dualwielding with extra attacks from Trash ability, and sunder armor can be blocked, this is certainly not a fight for a druid tank (Damage taken by druid was less than I expected it to be) .
- I am not sure full T4 is the best choice for a warrior tank, I used it anyway.
- I am not sure all of the items used are BiS for T4 content.
I could do something similar on a different fight in the future, but for now, this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
No one can see what's in my pocket.
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