PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

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skyx
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PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#1 » Post by skyx » 17 Jun 2017 16:41

PvP on Primal Wow is non existent at the moment.

The population needs some incentive to start queuing BGs

maybe consider one/some of the following:

1) Release Season 1 lv 70 accessories early (Marshall's/General's) Currently, only lv 70 rare pvp main slot armour and lv 70 rare weapons are available and not accessories. Releasing said items early would allow PvPers to obtain full PvP gear without doing any PvE. I am not sure if these accessories would become pre-raid BiS but everyone would get these items eventually and they will only be relevant for one season/patch only.

2) Make Call to arms to BGs occur more frequently (From my time playing during TBC pre-patch, the community is willing to queue for even Alterac Valley when Call to Arms is available for it.

3) Slightly increase honour gains from world PvP kills for those who flagged themselves for PvP first

Since world PvP is an Opt-in feature on PW....absolutely no one is doing so because people can be ganked without warning. Risk taking should be (slightly) rewarded in my opinion.

also

I know it is a while off but will Isle of Quel'danas be a PvP zone? It would be a shame if it wasn't because

i) It is a lv 70 zone (so no lowbie ganking)

ii) Would make daily questing fun and chaotic.

iii) It is a no fly zone

iv) The graveyard isn't too far away from your corpse if you die from a gank.


I guarantee even casual PvErs would find daily questing in Isle of Queldanas fun if it was "contested territory".

Here are some comments from WoWhead.

http://www.wowhead.com/zone=4080/isle-o ... s#comments
By snipre (1,220 – 5·9) on 2009/09/20 (Patch 3.2.0)

One thing is for sure though; the mix of gold farming, incredibly fun spontaneous world PvP, an epic 5-man dungeon that provided some great loot and challenges, and one of the best raids ever put in game make the Island of Quel'Danas one of Blizzard's great legacies. Certainly a place to remember going into the future, and a model for Blizzard to build upon in future expansions.

By MrFreeze059 (3,629 – 8·37) on 2009/07/27 (Patch 3.1.3)
This was such an awesome place. The Gank Trains, the awesome dailies, even a RAID on it!

By Cyphonner (1,698 – 4·20) on 2010/11/16 (Patch 4.0.1)
I learned how to pvp here.

Quel'danas > Wintergrasp
Last edited by skyx on 17 Jun 2017 19:46, edited 4 times in total.

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Eronox
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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#2 » Post by Eronox » 17 Jun 2017 18:25

I can see the proficient side of a few ideas given, more or less..
Could you describe why you wish these changes to be done?
id est, how could it be working as a resolve to the experience described
.

There's things that never will be right I know, and things need changin' everywhere you go.
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

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skyx
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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#3 » Post by skyx » 17 Jun 2017 19:25

Also another suggestion:

4) Maybe make some uncut gems available for honour? (Rare gems at most until s3/s4). I know this wasn't the case in TBC but it was in the WOTLK. There will come a point where PvPers will be honor capped and have nothing else to buy. Allowing them to dump excess honour into gems would keep them playing on and FARMING AND RESETTING BLACK TEMPLE TRASH FOR EPIC GEMS IS SOMETHING I REALLY HATE FROM TBC :evil:

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VanillaPVE
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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#4 » Post by VanillaPVE » 17 Jun 2017 20:57

skyx wrote:
17 Jun 2017 16:41
I know it is a while off but will Isle of Quel'danas be a PvP zone? It would be a shame if it wasn't because

i) It is a lv 70 zone (so no lowbie ganking)

ii) Would make daily questing fun and chaotic.

iii) It is a no fly zone

iv) The graveyard isn't too far away from your corpse if you die from a gank.


I guarantee even casual PvErs would find daily questing in Isle of Queldanas fun if it was "contested territory".

Here are some comments from WoWhead.
Suggestions 1, 2, 3 and 4 from your posts (that I didn't quote above) I don't care about as it is PVP stuff for people who like to PVP. Good on them.

However, this bit quoted above about the Isle of Quel'danas is horrible. If you want non-consensual PVP in a world zone there are plenty of PVP servers out there.

Going point by point.

i) Ganking is not just a lvl 70 toon hitting low lvl toons. It is also hard core, geared out PVPers, attacking without warning people who don't know how to, aren't geared out for, and are not expecting PVP.

ii) Maybe in your opinion. It would make my daily questing non existent because I won't go into a PVP zone. Getting ganked by someone when all I won't to do is quest is not fun. It is a pain in my back side at best. At worst, a frustrating experience not worth having.

iii)So gankers can't fly over my head and wait until I am engaged with other mobs before attacking me? So I can't fly away to avoid getting ganked? I don't see how this is a good thing from my perspective of trying to avoid non-consensual PVP and getting ganked.

iv) "if you die from a gank" So you admit that ganks would happen. I don't care if the graveyard is close. What, you can gank me again that much sooner? Go back to my previous point. That is not fun to me.

You cannot guarantee that this would be fun for me. I've been on PVP servers before and experienced exactly what happens in these kind of circumstances. This is, in my opinion, a wretched idea.

This is wholly speculation on my part. But maybe world PVP and BGs in general are not a big thing on this server because it is a PVE server. If people wanted world PVP, there were plenty of servers before Primal even came about as well as a lot of other servers currently online that could fill that want. A lot of people are here for the PVE aspect of this server and would like it to stay that way.

With my speculation over, I want it to stay PVE. You can run around flagged as much as you want. Just leave me out of it.

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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#5 » Post by Floss » 17 Jun 2017 23:06

Just make primal Wow a PVP server.
You got all these hard raiders who will keep doing raids anyway.
Why not gank people that are questing? It's actually really fun.

Anyway on a serious note , PW is going through a "phase" right now , it's like your gf having a period.
Just be patient till everyone get their chars to 70 and reps and whatnot and they'll back to PVP once they realize that wow is super boring without it.

I have faith in the players cause at the previous patch they did a normal amount of PVP , no reason to not do it at 70 aswell.

The only question is how long will it take them ?

As for your suggestions , i strongly support the second one, It can't do much harm and it will add some diversity in BGs.

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skyx
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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#6 » Post by skyx » 18 Jun 2017 03:14

VanillaPVE wrote:
17 Jun 2017 20:57
...
Lol, you are making it sound like it is rape.

Of course ganks will happen; it is like putting a shark into a fish tank.

People were forced to quest in groups to avoids ganks which made daily questing a bit more fun since you needed a group (much more than solo questing).

But yeah, I guess turning the island into a contested area won't work because of cross factions (very blizz-like :) )

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Antreon
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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#7 » Post by Antreon » 18 Jun 2017 14:14

Copy exactly the cata system just with rating requirement on a few items

more or less:

-Lock shoulders and weapon, maybe helmet too, behind rating or high arena points cost
-Very low honor rates gain, something like 1 HK = 1 honor point
-Every bg win would give 50 HP and 25 AP, daily bg quest giving 100 HP and 50 AP
-For gear cost take the values used in cata, (2200 HP/AP for chest)

the system allows ppl to gear almost fully through bgs and some arena elitists may not like it but the truth is that arenas are not anywhere near as popular as bgs, not just on this server, on pretty much all pservers arenas are usually dead

you'd still gear faster through arenas so i think there's still a good incentive to do them


as for world PvP i think there should be 1 zone dedicated entirely to world pvp with actual objectives and meaningfull rewards
i think world pvp should be more about large groups fighting for control over a zone rather than "here, go gank yourselves" and end it there, we need a sort of "wintergrasp" basically

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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#8 » Post by Deim » 18 Jun 2017 15:29

meh the idea of lowering honor costs will make even less ppl q bgs.
Tho big plus for one pvp zone, maybe Nagrand and Hlaala ?
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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#9 » Post by Antreon » 18 Jun 2017 16:18

Deim wrote:
18 Jun 2017 15:29
meh the idea of lowering honor costs will make even less ppl q bgs.
Tho big plus for one pvp zone, maybe Nagrand and Hlaala ?
you probably didnt read all my post ? yes cost is low but so are the honor rates, i'd be fine even with 2 times the cost, but it's not that the point, the point is to not lock all the gear behind rating, that is unless they implement rated bgs XDDDDDDD

Nagrand is a pretty good choice, could mean a lot of pvp for the elemental plateau

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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#10 » Post by Gehere » 19 Jun 2017 10:35

This is a PvE server. Why are you even having this discussion?

My guess is you won't exactly gain population, if you start removing the PvE environment of the server.

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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#11 » Post by Antreon » 19 Jun 2017 11:15

Gehere wrote:
19 Jun 2017 10:35
This is a PvE server. Why are you even having this discussion?

My guess is you won't exactly gain population, if you start removing the PvE environment of the server.
they wanted to improve pvp activity and asked for suggestions, here they are


catering to PvEers only surely wont, your guess is wrong, calm your tits they arent removing the pve environment, even if they were to turn 1 single zone pvp (which i dnt think they will) you sill have 6 others to level farm etc

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skyx
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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#12 » Post by skyx » 19 Jun 2017 12:08

Antreon wrote:
18 Jun 2017 14:14
Copy exactly the cata system just with rating requirement on a few items

more or less:

-Lock shoulders and weapon, maybe helmet too, behind rating or high arena points cost
-Very low honor rates gain, something like 1 HK = 1 honor point
-Every bg win would give 50 HP and 25 AP, daily bg quest giving 100 HP and 50 AP
-For gear cost take the values used in cata, (2200 HP/AP for chest)

the system allows ppl to gear almost fully through bgs and some arena elitists may not like it but the truth is that arenas are not anywhere near as popular as bgs, not just on this server, on pretty much all pservers arenas are usually dead

you'd still gear faster through arenas so i think there's still a good incentive to do them


as for world PvP i think there should be 1 zone dedicated entirely to world pvp with actual objectives and meaningfull rewards
i think world pvp should be more about large groups fighting for control over a zone rather than "here, go gank yourselves" and end it there, we need a sort of "wintergrasp" basically
I haven't played cata/mop/wod so I don't know how it works.

But all I know is that arena PvP should be prioritised over BG PvP so current season PvP gear should be gated by arena rating.

If I had to pick one dedicated zone for "world pvp", it would be Isle of Quel'danas by making it a contested territory.
Gehere wrote:
19 Jun 2017 10:35
This is a PvE server. Why are you even having this discussion?

My guess is you won't exactly gain population, if you start removing the PvE environment of the server.
PW may be a PvE server but the PvP aspect should not be neglected at all. There is no other private server out there that has TBC with Woltk mechanics. It would be great if PW utilise this potential unique selling point to attract more players, particularly PvP orientated players.If there exists another like PW (TBC with Wotlk mechanics), please PM me the name and I might check it out.

OFF TOPIC:

http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/29831 ... ced/page-2

If you read the opinions of US arena gladiator players, they more or less agree that s7 and early s8 were the closest it was for "balanced" arenas UNTIL PVE gear RUINED IT.

TBC with wotlk mechanics is like wotlk s6/s7/s8 without the bullcrap PvE gear (TOCR25/ICC/RS) encroaching on PvP balance.

Even with warglaives, BT and sunwell gear, I think PvE gear won't affect the PvP aspect as badly as it does on WOTLK servers since Warglaives and Thoridal aren't easily as "farmed" as Shadowmourne, PvE TBC trinkets aren't that overpowered in a PvP setting compared to ToCR25/ICC/RS trinkets and most importantly, PvP gear isn't "out-budgeted" by PvE gear (ilvl 270 vs ilvl 277/284). In fact, sunwell gear and s4 gear are both ilvl 159.

Also some TBC classes/mechanics were flat out dumb (mace stuns, resto druids, etc)

and finally,

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/com ... _to_wotlk/
[–]schaka 3 points 10 months ago
PvP only players are usually the ones at the top. They dominate the ladder, unless their classes BiS gear requires them to PvE.
That being said, I don't think servers like that (pure arena/bg) are a sustainable concept anymore. It creates a toxic enviroment and there's really nothing new for people to learn anymore.
When Kisha and I founded AT in 2009, it was fresh and people really didn't know how to play TBC yet. The private server scene in general was full of people who had never touched WoW and had an actual chance to learn how to against players their skill level - because of the abundance of players, no MMR required.
Today you'd need an interactive, progression based concept that keeps the player always busy. But I still think, years later, that no PvE hero will ever have the deep understanding of game mechanics required to be good at PvP, understand 8-10 other classes to their fullest etc.

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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#13 » Post by Gehere » 19 Jun 2017 12:21

Antreon wrote:
19 Jun 2017 11:15
Gehere wrote:
19 Jun 2017 10:35
This is a PvE server. Why are you even having this discussion?

My guess is you won't exactly gain population, if you start removing the PvE environment of the server.
they wanted to improve pvp activity and asked for suggestions, here they are


catering to PvEers only surely wont, your guess is wrong, calm your tits they arent removing the pve environment, even if they were to turn 1 single zone pvp (which i dnt think they will) you sill have 6 others to level farm etc
Calm my tits? Woah - you are such a great personality.

Catering the PvE players, on a PvE server? What a misconception, huh? I get there has to be room for both player_types - but turning this into more of a custom server, than it already is - is not the way forward for PrimalWoW. Some/Most of us, came here, because we read about a Blizzlike experience in the PvE concept. We're already struggling with this statement, by all the changes being made.

You knew what kind of server this was - when you created your account.

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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#14 » Post by Mizzeeh » 19 Jun 2017 13:37

Gehere wrote:
19 Jun 2017 12:21
Antreon wrote:
19 Jun 2017 11:15
Gehere wrote:
19 Jun 2017 10:35
This is a PvE server. Why are you even having this discussion?

My guess is you won't exactly gain population, if you start removing the PvE environment of the server.
they wanted to improve pvp activity and asked for suggestions, here they are


catering to PvEers only surely wont, your guess is wrong, calm your tits they arent removing the pve environment, even if they were to turn 1 single zone pvp (which i dnt think they will) you sill have 6 others to level farm etc
Calm my tits? Woah - you are such a great personality.

Catering the PvE players, on a PvE server? What a misconception, huh? I get there has to be room for both player_types - but turning this into more of a custom server, than it already is - is not the way forward for PrimalWoW. Some/Most of us, came here, because we read about a Blizzlike experience in the PvE concept. We're already struggling with this statement, by all the changes being made.

You knew what kind of server this was - when you created your account.

Asking you to calm your tits a little when you come into a thread which is simply about trying to improve an aspect of this server and shitting on it is a perfectly reasonable response.

If you'd read through the thread you'd realize that the majority of suggestions here are tailored towards BGs and arenas with only 2 smaller and more radical ones towards world PvP. If your issue is with world PvP, which it seems to be, then maybe, rather than telling people here that trying to give feedback about things they care about isn't worth it, you should give feedback about why you have issues with the suggestions they've brought forward about world PvP. That shouldn't be too difficult given that this is, as you've pointed out, a PvE server.


I think your greatest misunderstanding though, is in believing that this being a PvE server is its greatest attraction and that because it is a PvE server nobody on it cares about PvP.

There is definitely a strong core of PvPers on this server who very much enjoy it and would definitely leave if that aspect totally died, many of those PvPers are also very much into PvE and the server would be less without them in many aspects other than PvP.

Also if you have ever seen an advertisement post for this server or read any discussion about people wanting to roll here, its greatest attraction is always that it's a Vanilla/TBC server with all the QoL changes from WotLK and better overall class balance. The part about it being PvE is always secondary, I know there are definitely people who play here largely because it's one of the best PvE servers out there, but it's not such a huge draw as you seem to indicate.

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Floss
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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#15 » Post by Floss » 19 Jun 2017 15:29

Gehere wrote:
19 Jun 2017 10:35
This is a PvE server. Why are you even having this discussion?

My guess is you won't exactly gain population, if you start removing the PvE environment of the server.
Someone is afraid of getting slaped in world PVP ^_^ .
Like Mizzeeh said , most of the changes suggested affect only PVP grounds so calm down and go back to your raiding.

As you can see , alot of players (maybe not the majority) care more about PVP than PVE, so if we completely neglect it , we're doing a big mistake.

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