ZG- first and last impression

Archive of discussions that have went stale. Lots o' dust over here!
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Nyeriah

Re: ZG- first and last impression

#31 » Post by Nyeriah » 04 Sep 2015 08:44

Analya wrote:Well, although his post is a bit overdramatic overall, he is right on some points. ZG is an entry lvl raid and it really shouldn't be Naxx difficulty raid. I mean, people were in ZG told me that Venoxis hits that for 20-50k which is something that tank can survive with ICC 25man gear only (we did the calculations last night). One thing that is so obvious to me is that this content haven't been tested which i find absolutely absurd. There is a couple of guilds that should be able to help out and i think that the input that people would give in that period would lead to better and logical tuning. Fights are supposed to be challenging, I love challenge and i am one of the people that spent 15+ hours in Black Temple when my guild competed for first kills. Challenge is a good thing, but buffing stuff to oblivion and making it unkillable with the current gear is nothing but total fail
High Priest Venoxis's melee swing hits Nova for 2303 Physical.(3894 Overkill)
Nova suffers 2303 Nature damage from Razzashi Cobra's Poison.(307 Overkill)
High Priest Venoxis's attack misses Nova.
High Priest Venoxis gains 0 Health from High Priest Venoxis's Renew.(2000 Overhealed)
High Priest Venoxis's Renew fades from High Priest Venoxis.
Nova suffers 2303 Nature damage from Razzashi Cobra's Poison.(307 Overkill)
High Priest Venoxis's melee swing hits Nova for 2303 Physical.(5358 Overkill)
High Priest Venoxis's melee swing hits Nova for 2303 Physical.(5426 Overkill)
Nova suffers 2303 Nature damage from Razzashi Cobra's Poison.(307 Overkill)
High Priest Venoxis's gains 2 extra attacks through Thrash.
High Priest Venoxis's melee swing hits Nova for 2303 Physical.(13347 Overkill) (Critical)
High Priest Venoxis's attack was dodged by Nova.
High Priest Venoxis's melee swing hits Nova for 2303 Physical.(4952 Overkill)
Nova suffers 2303 Nature damage from Razzashi Cobra's Poison.(307 Overkill)
High Priest Venoxis's melee swing hits Nova for 2303 Physical.(11539 Overkill) (Critical)
High Priest Venoxis's melee swing hits Nova for 2303 Physical.(3860 Overkill)
I am not sure what are you talking about...

That's on a rogue with 353 armor...

These people whom have told you things must be seeing things.

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Analya
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Re: ZG- first and last impression

#32 » Post by Analya » 04 Sep 2015 09:21

That's what i was told by people from guilds that either downed or tried her. I think someone from them are planning on giving a better feedback

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Sacre12
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Re: ZG- first and last impression

#33 » Post by Sacre12 » 04 Sep 2015 09:28

The Thrashes CAN crit for upwards 45-50k in total, provided all three melee attacks crit (There was, for example, a melee crit over 15k in the log you just posted). That's on 0 armor. Put that on a tank, and say that one'll be lucky and none of them crit, and we're down to maybe 10k. Then there's always a chance to avoid one of them, likely causing the tank (If he has full health) to survive with a couple hundred left, maximum. The thrashes more or less require you to be lucky and avoid at least two of the hits if one is supposed to survive with any somewhat reasonable amount of health.

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Analya
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Re: ZG- first and last impression

#34 » Post by Analya » 04 Sep 2015 09:30

There is also a nice insight from Kurthos on this post http://www.primalwow.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=16601
Problem is that these reports are scattered all around the forums atm.

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.kurthos

Re: ZG- first and last impression

#35 » Post by .kurthos » 04 Sep 2015 10:34

I've been making reports on the bug tracker, but there are some things that should be visible. I think that applying increased spell costs to caster dps/hunters is really debilitating while increased damage/health is acceptable. I have shadow priests in my guild who feel like they are needing to reroll to a more useful class for progression. Its not really fair to our community to have the debuff implemented in this way.

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DGProbe99
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Re: ZG- first and last impression

#36 » Post by DGProbe99 » 04 Sep 2015 10:43

kurthos wrote:I've been making reports on the bug tracker, but there are some things that should be visible. I think that applying increased spell costs to caster dps/hunters is really debilitating while increased damage/health is acceptable. I have shadow priests in my guild who feel like they are needing to reroll to a more useful class for progression. Its not really fair to our community to have the debuff implemented in this way.
We have had our shadow priests mention re-rolling as well.
There are also some major issues with stuff like High Priestess Mar'li not being tauntable (can see very easy in this video, that she should be able to)

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.landgin

Re: ZG- first and last impression

#37 » Post by .landgin » 04 Sep 2015 14:40

Migthymace wrote:Dear dev's ,


What's with the bast**ds farming mc boe's from trash and abusing the s**t out of the Domo chest? #doublestandards
But i guess u also have a policy for that.


Anyway im done with this server,

yours Zoddo
Dont let the door hit you on the way out.


PS: domo loot blows.

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Cleofatra

Re: ZG- first and last impression

#38 » Post by Cleofatra » 04 Sep 2015 16:00

+1 to Kurthos.

The Mana debuff is ok for healers since it is making it more challenging. However for DPS classes... what was this hoping to accomplish? Make only Warlocks/Hunters/Melee DPS/Mages viable? Is there some sort of mana conservation skill-game that I am missing out on? Night Elves only viable Shadow Priests/Boomkins for shadowmeld potion?

This change has made dps shaman/paladins, boomkins, and shadow priests no longer viable for ZG or Onyxia. Not a good change if you ask me.

Just change the cost of HEALING SPELLS. Not all Shaman spells. Not all spells. Just the healing ones :)

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ceh789
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Re: ZG- first and last impression

#39 » Post by ceh789 » 04 Sep 2015 22:03

Cleofatra wrote:+1 to Kurthos.

The Mana debuff is ok for healers since it is making it more challenging. However for DPS classes... what was this hoping to accomplish? Make only Warlocks/Hunters/Melee DPS/Mages viable? Is there some sort of mana conservation skill-game that I am missing out on? Night Elves only viable Shadow Priests/Boomkins for shadowmeld potion?

This change has made dps shaman/paladins, boomkins, and shadow priests no longer viable for ZG or Onyxia. Not a good change if you ask me.

Just change the cost of HEALING SPELLS. Not all Shaman spells. Not all spells. Just the healing ones :)
Explain why a "mana conservation skill-game" is challenging for healers and unrealistic for DPS?

I don't disagree that it's problematic due to it affecting DPS classes unevenly, why is the answer not to apply the super fun challenge to everyone?
Fishie, Level 60 Undead Priest

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Cleofatra

Re: ZG- first and last impression

#40 » Post by Cleofatra » 04 Sep 2015 22:12

The challenge with healers is to be mana conservative and mana efficient. The challenge with DPSers is ???.

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BUBBLEBARBIE
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Re: ZG- first and last impression

#41 » Post by BUBBLEBARBIE » 04 Sep 2015 22:12

Migthymace wrote:
Cleofatra wrote:What is bugged about ZG? They increased the mana cost of spells but I have not yet heard of any bugs.
Go in and find out, i've done an extraordinary amount of zg runs in classic+ private server(feenix) and i can tell you it's far from what it should be. Every raid had problems yesterday.
Well you solved your own problem, don't you fell better now?...oh, hold on, you still have not figgered it out?? (here is a clue for you.)
THIS IS NOT CLASSIC WOW AND DAMN SURE IS NOT THAT GHOSTTOWN CALLED FEENIX... ITS NOT "BLIZZLIKE" FOR GODS SAKE (3.3.5 but playing 1.12), STOP BITCHING LIKE IT SUSPOST TO BE..



PS.. sry I dont normaly wright post like this, but dumbass people sometimes deserve it..
Bubblebarbie - Pally
Healplz - Priest
Scyntra - Lock
Frostu - Mage
Frostfroster - Mage

I don't allways eat Syrup but when I do I perfer Maple, stay Sticky my friends...

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ceh789
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Re: ZG- first and last impression

#42 » Post by ceh789 » 04 Sep 2015 22:21

Cleofatra wrote:The challenge with healers is to be mana conservative and mana efficient. The challenge with DPSers is ???.
To be mana conservative and mana efficient?

It seems to me that healers have been shouldering the majority of the debuffs for the server all along; I think it is reasonable that DPS classes should share in the fun. I'm not certain that it should be the same debuff but it should be something - and increased mob health isn't it since longer fights arguably stress healers even more than DPS.
Fishie, Level 60 Undead Priest

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Cleofatra

Re: ZG- first and last impression

#43 » Post by Cleofatra » 04 Sep 2015 22:30

There is no mana conservation gameplay with DPS. With healers at least you can try to prevent overheal or something. With DPS it's.... don't be a class that uses mana?

You're right though healers do seem to get hit with the changes more than others. However the mana debuff on DPSers will..... make the fights longer! The very thing you just complained about :p. Would like to see a better change as well.
Last edited by Guest on 04 Sep 2015 22:31, edited 1 time in total.

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mmarkov1
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Re: ZG- first and last impression

#44 » Post by mmarkov1 » 04 Sep 2015 22:31

Test server please. That is all.

Cheers.
Nephy - Holy Priest - Guild Master of <Mystic>
http://mysticguild.org/

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useronly
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Re: ZG- first and last impression

#45 » Post by useronly » 04 Sep 2015 22:32

ceh789 wrote:
Cleofatra wrote:The challenge with healers is to be mana conservative and mana efficient. The challenge with DPSers is ???.
To be mana conservative and mana efficient?

It seems to me that healers have been shouldering the majority of the debuffs for the server all along; I think it is reasonable that DPS classes should share in the fun. I'm not certain that it should be the same debuff but it should be something - and increased mob health isn't it since longer fights arguably stress healers even more than DPS.
How exactly can you be "mana conservative" as a caster? Can you somehow have better timing at hitting the frostbolt/shadowbolt/mindflay/etc button? Casters don't rly have an option to gauge which spell is worthwhile and on what target. The general goal of the fight is to take X boss down as quickly as possible so the healers don't run OOM. Getting as close to max theoretical dps is the goal. If your idea of mana conservation is to put more burden on the melee and hunters while casters look into the abyss and let spirit do its thing...that's not mana conservation at all. Perhaps you think mp5 gear should now be a staple for casters? That seems like a great trend.
Last edited by Guest on 04 Sep 2015 22:33, edited 1 time in total.

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