Something everyone needs to watch.

[Roel]

I don't know where you got that from, but, AFAIK, there is not much debate of how healthy a complete vegan diet is, except for 1 vitamin; B12.

I will try not to go into much detail here, there is plenty to Google for those who wish but I can see that you already have some knowledge about it. Indeed a big problem is a lack of education in the nutrition area but that's exactly why someone with their own health as goal shouldn't use such a limiting diet as the vegan. Simply put, our organs were designed as omnivores and a diverse diet has always been the key as grandma's wisdom goes. That includes a small portion of both fish and meat, you really don't need much but the most organic form would be best for everyone. Meat in itself is not unhealthy, antibiotics and other modern practices are a different story. Vegetables aren't really any different with genetic modification and pesticides (which actually also kill animals).

As a vegan you can really end up with more deficiencies than just B12 in the long term: A, D, K2, Iron, some supporting substances which you never even heard about and things that have yet to be discovered. Not everything can be solved with artificial vitamins especially with the lack of an absorbable medium like saturated fats. And don't even let me get started on the dangers of soy, a vegan avoiding any form of that will have even fewer options. Especially male vegans would be scared to death if they knew the state of their hormonal balance.

Anyway it hardly matters for the 99% of people that don't care enough. A way more important and simple step for both health and environment would be to stop eating heavily processed food and don't eat more than you need. I will leave it at that as I already said more than I wanted, there are more suitable forums to discuss this and it's understandable that not everyone takes it seriously here.

P.S. That voluntary movement surely is interesting, I don't think I heard about it yet.

[Etro]

its not about humanity. You wont be a better person if you stop eating meat, you will just miss some vitamins B12, B6, D, amimal proteins, omega-3 fatty acids, calcium, iodine and some amino-acids and so on, but who cares why to get these things from animals when you can get it from synthetic food supplements

The only thing you would need to get from suplements is B12. Every other can be found aplenty in vegetals. For example:

- There's more calcium in brocoli, seeds, nuts and beans than in cow's milk.
- There's more B6 in sunflower seeds and pistacho nuts than in Tuna, and more B6 in prunes than in lean beef.
- There's more omega-3 in flaxseeds than in salmon, and there's chia and common spices like oregano that also contains a fair amount.
- Sea vegetables, cranberries, strawberries contain more iodin than any natural diary product, potatoes also contain a good amount of iodine.

There's 0 essential aminoacids missing from a proper vegan diet.

"Populations should consume nutritionally adequate and varied diets, based primarily on foods of plant origin with small amounts of added flesh foods. Households should select predominantly plant-based diets rich in a variety of vegetables and fruits, pulses or legumes, and minimally processed starchy staple foods. The evidence that such diets will prevent or delay a significant proportion of non-communicable chronic diseases is consistent. A predominantly plant-based diet has a low energy density, which may protect against obesity."

"Although two-thirds of the world's population depends on cereal or tuber-based diets, the other one-third consumes significant amounts of animal food products. The latter group places an undue demand on land, water, and other resources required for intensive food production, which makes the typical Western diet not only undesirable from the standpoint of health but also environmentally unsustainable. If we balance energy intake with the expenditure required for basal metabolism, physical activity, growth, and repair, we will find that the dietary quality required for health is essentially the same across population groups."

[Roel]

I am afraid it's really more complicated than that. Most vitamins have different variants with different bindings which can act completely different in the body especially when it comes to synthetic bindings from supplements. Different foods may contain different variants which makes it so hard to do extended research on the matter. A simple and properly researched example is omega-3 which consists of EPA, DHA and ALA in short. Any plant sources including flax seeds will only include ALA which the body can convert to EPA and DHA but not enough to prevent a deficiency if you don't get any fish fats. Besides such conversions go at the cost of other vitamins which in turn lead to a chain reaction of other deficiencies. I really know too much about this although I also believed for a long time that flax seeds would cover all omega-3 needs.

[Dr. Who]

should we go tell to the lions and tigers to go vegan as well?

[Etro]

I don't know where you got that from, but, AFAIK, there is not much debate of how healthy a complete vegan diet is, except for 1 vitamin; B12.

I will try not to go into much detail here, there is plenty to Google for those who wish but I can see that you already have some knowledge about it. Indeed a big problem is a lack of education in the nutrition area but that's exactly why someone with their own health as goal shouldn't use such a limiting diet as the vegan

I would disagree that a diet that forces you to diversify what you eat is limiting, at least not in the strict sense of the word. I would consider the regular western diet more limiting, as it is based its majority on animal products, primarily milk, eggs and meat, from which derives most of its products (yogur, icecream, cheese, creams, etc). Not saying that you can't do the same with vegan products (there is yogur, milk, "meat", etc made of soy, almond and wheat for example).

Also, about Google: For research and academic kind of things, it is best to actually read the study the article refers to, make sure it is the most updated, that it was done correctly and that its conclusion is represented in justice. There's generally a lot of bias in this subject and I would say it is wise to not trust just anything that comes up in the search results. I know that can be very exhausting (I only did it because my job required me to) but it is the only way to make sure one is receiving the proper information.

Simply put, our organs were designed as omnivores and a diverse diet has always been the key as grandma's wisdom goes. That includes a small portion of both fish and meat, you really don't need much but the most organic form would be best for everyone. Meat in itself is not unhealthy, antibiotics and other modern practices are a different story. Vegetables aren't really any different with genetic modification and pesticides (which actually also kill animals).

Precisely because we are omnivores, we can choose. And if a thing is natural then it doesn't make it automatically inevitable, justified, valid, ideal, or good.

Also, it should be noted that most people (from 40 to 60% http://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/a ... bi.1000491) are lactose intolerant after the 5 years of age, and many doctors (including WHO) recommend a plant-based diet for optimal health. When you add to this that taking a sentient life is by definition an ethical issue (especially when there is no actual reason to do so) then the argument that eating animal products is natural falls apart on both physiological and ethical grounds.

As a vegan you can really end up with more deficiencies than just B12 in the long term: A, D, K2, Iron, some supporting substances which you never even heard about and things that have yet to be discovered. Not everything can be solved with artificial vitamins especially with the lack of an absorbable medium like saturated fats. And don't even let me get started on the dangers of soy, a vegan avoiding any form of that will have even fewer options. Especially male vegans would be scared to death if they knew the state of their hormonal balance.

Yes, you can end up with deficiencies, but as previously stated, that is only a risk if the diet is not carefully planned. The vegetal kingdom has most if not all (B12 source is still debated until this day, it is not a fact. Suplements for this vitamin are only encouraged as a precaution) needed vitamins, aminoacids to form proteins and minerals that the human body requires to be in optimal health. It has been demonstrated through Health and agriculture studies over and over and it has even been demonstrated practically via sports performance in professional athletes (https://www.vegansociety.com/whats-new/ ... d-athletes).

About Soy, AFAIK, that is a myth that was debunked once these supposed "estrogens" were actuallyisoflavones and were found to not be responsible of any "manopause". However, that study was in 2010. If you have a more recent study, I'd like to read it. if I ever become vegan, I would not eat soy if that myth is actually not a myth.

Anyway it hardly matters for the 99% of people that don't care enough. A way more important and simple step for both health and environment would be to stop eating heavily processed food and don't eat more than you need. I will leave it at that as I already said more than I wanted, there are more suitable forums to discuss this and it's understandable that not everyone takes it seriously here.

I agree. "don't eat more than you need" and "eat natural" seems a very constant in health advice.

I am afraid it's really more complicated than that. Most vitamins have different variants with different bindings which can act completely different in the body especially when it comes to synthetic bindings from supplements. Different foods may contain different variants which makes it so hard to do extended research on the matter. A simple and properly researched example is omega-3 which consists of EPA, DHA and ALA in short. Any plant sources including flax seeds will only include ALA which the body can convert to EPA and DHA but not enough to prevent a deficiency if you don't get any fish fats. Besides such conversions go at the cost of other vitamins which in turn lead to a chain reaction of other deficiencies. I really know too much about this although I also believed for a long time that flax seeds would cover all omega-3 needs.

Oh, it is more complicated than that, of course, but I don't think going overly technical in here (besides direct study links) might be contraproducent if we want other people to engage seriously. There are more vegetal sources of omega-3 than just flaxseeds, like soy, quinoa, nuts and wheat, and while these in standalone might not be as rich in omega-3 compared to some fish, but in combination or in sufficient portion during a week should provide enough. Altho, I must say that I'm not that knowledgable in this particular section of nutrition (suplement variants), so I should probably investigate more before arguing this further. I like to think I know a great amount about nutrition, but I'm definitely no expert.

[Longi]

The only thing you would need to get from suplements is B12. Every other can be found aplenty in vegetals. For example:

- There's more calcium in brocoli, seeds, nuts and beans than in cow's milk.
- There's more B6 in sunflower seeds and pistacho nuts than in Tuna, and more B6 in prunes than in lean beef.
- There's more omega-3 in flaxseeds than in salmon, and there's chia and common spices like oregano that also contains a fair amount.
- Sea vegetables, cranberries, strawberries contain more iodin than any natural diary product, potatoes also contain a good amount of iodine.

There's 0 essential aminoacids missing from a proper vegan diet.

"Populations should consume nutritionally adequate and varied diets, based primarily on foods of plant origin with small amounts of added flesh foods. Households should select predominantly plant-based diets rich in a variety of vegetables and fruits, pulses or legumes, and minimally processed starchy staple foods. The evidence that such diets will prevent or delay a significant proportion of non-communicable chronic diseases is consistent. A predominantly plant-based diet has a low energy density, which may protect against obesity."

"Although two-thirds of the world's population depends on cereal or tuber-based diets, the other one-third consumes significant amounts of animal food products. The latter group places an undue demand on land, water, and other resources required for intensive food production, which makes the typical Western diet not only undesirable from the standpoint of health but also environmentally unsustainable. If we balance energy intake with the expenditure required for basal metabolism, physical activity, growth, and repair, we will find that the dietary quality required for health is essentially the same across population groups."

- there is more calcium in cheese, yougurt, sardines, dark leafy greens than in brocoli, seeds, nuts and beans
- with B6 agree, but if i have to choose between fish / chicken and sunflower seeds/ pistacho nuts, look at it more global what all you will get from fish and what you re getting from same porcion of sunflower seeds
- there is more omega-3 in flaxseed oil (cold pressed) than in flaxseed, more omega-3 have walnuts / walnut Oil than common spices like oregano ..about chia, agree its omega-3 bomb, but try to eait a lot at once, your stomach will tell his opinion. you will need to drink plenty of water
- there is more iodin in a cod than in cranberries, strawberries contain, with dried seaweed agree ( try to get it in some countries )

- There is no native human vegan in the world, all vegans became from people eating meat, because they didnt like killing animals ( not because some vegelats have better stats )

[Wilcox]

yo what about the sharks and lions and crocodiles that are eating humans

its payback yo

[Etro]

The only thing you would need to get from suplements is B12. Every other can be found aplenty in vegetals. For example:

- There's more calcium in brocoli, seeds, nuts and beans than in cow's milk.
- There's more B6 in sunflower seeds and pistacho nuts than in Tuna, and more B6 in prunes than in lean beef.
- There's more omega-3 in flaxseeds than in salmon, and there's chia and common spices like oregano that also contains a fair amount.
- Sea vegetables, cranberries, strawberries contain more iodin than any natural diary product, potatoes also contain a good amount of iodine.

There's 0 essential aminoacids missing from a proper vegan diet.

"Populations should consume nutritionally adequate and varied diets, based primarily on foods of plant origin with small amounts of added flesh foods. Households should select predominantly plant-based diets rich in a variety of vegetables and fruits, pulses or legumes, and minimally processed starchy staple foods. The evidence that such diets will prevent or delay a significant proportion of non-communicable chronic diseases is consistent. A predominantly plant-based diet has a low energy density, which may protect against obesity."

"Although two-thirds of the world's population depends on cereal or tuber-based diets, the other one-third consumes significant amounts of animal food products. The latter group places an undue demand on land, water, and other resources required for intensive food production, which makes the typical Western diet not only undesirable from the standpoint of health but also environmentally unsustainable. If we balance energy intake with the expenditure required for basal metabolism, physical activity, growth, and repair, we will find that the dietary quality required for health is essentially the same across population groups."

- there is more calcium in cheese, yougurt, sardines, dark leafy greens than in brocoli, seeds, nuts and beans
- with B6 agree, but if i have to choose between fish / chicken and sunflower seeds/ pistacho nuts, look at it more global what all you will get from fish and what you re getting from same porcion of sunflower seeds
- there is more omega-3 in flaxseed oil (cold pressed) than in flaxseed, more omega-3 have walnuts / walnut Oil than common spices like oregano ..about chia, agree its omega-3 bomb, but try to eait a lot at once, your stomach will tell his opinion. you will need to drink plenty of water
- there is more iodin in a cod than in cranberries, strawberries contain, with dried seaweed agree ( try to get it in some countries )

- There is no native human vegan in the world, all vegans became from people eating meat, because they didnt like killing animals ( not because some vegelats have better stats )

Where are you getting your data from? Because, at least, according to the USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, your data is wrong: http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/r ... easureby=g

[mcheka]

[Wilcox]

[chickenbutt]

Thanks Etro for responding and taking the time and effort into making a difference and seeing the world the way it is.

Thanks to everyone who responded with dumb comments because you just proved your ignorance by revealing that you didn't even watch the video (or you didn't understand it, in which case you should have asked what it was about or not commented at all). Try watching the video again...

[Torcano]

K then, let's say you eliminated this "carnism" bollocks from the world and everyone has to live on a plant diet. But then you realize that the world is barely able to produce enough food for the humongous human population without the use of radical genetic manipulation of strains of crops we already have now. And as we know the same first world "oh the humanatee" crowd that spearheads the vegan movement also overlaps with the organic/no genetically modified crops bandwagon. As Norman Borlaug (look him up if you have no clue who he is, because you should know who he is as without him you'd prolly be starving right about now and eating meat instead of crops) once said "There will come a day when you have to decide which bunch of millions upon millions of people you should give up to famine and starvation because there are not enough crops to go around". So what are your views on that matter of how to manage the crops because we solved the problem of horrific and inhuman meat eaters making us look like the spear chuckers we descended from and now we have a bigger issue on our hands of not being able to sustain ourselves.

And this was not said recently either where this problem is much more dominant, this was way back in the 80s when my country (India) for example was on the verge of a horrific famine and his implementation of green revolution and genetically modified crops saved over 200 mil+ people from just dying in the streets and as you probably know India does not consume as much meat on a per-capita level as let's say the USA. Just think about this, in a country where meat is not part of a primary diet and industrial level meat farming is not practiced on a large scale, a huge chunk of the population was gonna starve to death in the world's biggest and most fertile rice bowl simply because there was no alternative. Now on a bigger and much more varied scale, what do you think would happen when you eliminate the source of food that fuels more almost half of the human population and put even more pressure on the already overloaded crop farming industry while pushing the organic agenda over them be it for good or for worse? Are you willing to sacrifice let's say Africa and just ask them politely to die off in a corner because they live primarily on bush meat since growing crops is a hassle over there and eating meat of bunnies and monkeys is inhumane. Or worse, would you sacrifice a more developed sect of the world like say the US because they were heavily dependent on meat and now keeping their population that stopped eating meat from dying off is being a huge burden for the rest of the world's agriculture sector because the US can't grow anything but corn on a large scale and the world can't be bothered with it because they are busy feeding their own countries with their ever depleting plant resources.

The solution according to scientists to solve world hunger is not to stop eating meat but eating insects, are you okay with eating insects? Because they can be farmed too, they are proven to be a great source of nutrients that we need to survive just as much as any plant or animal based life form. And they feel pain too, I guess... like did you ever smack the wing off a fly and see it squirm, so I guess eating them is out of the question, yes. What the woman is doing in that film is literally not even one half of one side of the coin, and the way she portrays meat eaters as fat and retarded slobs while showing vegetarians as fit wearing "vegan power" shirts is borderline propaganda 101 material all the while saying they are not a propaganda machine in that last few scenes where people are protesting is hilarious. I mean I'm an Indian, I see no difference in eating a chicken to a cow, I don't discriminate, I even ate a peacock and a squid once kek. Neither do most other people in this day and age, the old restrictions that she showed were religious restrictions at best and nobody cares about them anymore... and sticking to my Indian theme, the sect of people called Brahmins that are militant about being vegans made special loopholes in their rules so they can eat fish, LOL. I mean I know a bunch of jews that eat pork, oh how they fear that they shall go to jewish hell amirite? Jeez. I get that the first world social justice fighters are self centered to the nth degree but this just shows that they have not a friggin' clue about anything other than what their own view of the world is, tunnel vision like the dumdums that keep running into shadow traps because they don't wanna lose on the DPS and ending up diddling themselves superhard.

[Longi]

Where are you getting your data from? Because, at least, according to the USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, your data is wrong: http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/nutrients/r ... easureby=g

I was using data from healthaliciousness.com

[chickenbutt]

The whole point of me sharing this video is to help people stop the abuse and exploitation of animals (breeding and slaughtering animals and presenting them as products instead of sentient beings) and live a healthier lifestyle (without heart disease and other diseases linked to eating meat) while also preventing mass emissions of greenhouse gases and deforesting and erosion.
Just think about the amount of grains that are produced just to feed animals that end up getting slaughtered. Use that land to produce grains for humans. World hunger solved.

Wtf are you even talking about, Torcano

[Torcano]

Talking about the repercussions of eliminating meat from human diet is all. It's a worthy cause I agree but comes with a cost. I'm all for eating healthy and stuff, the thing here is you should be fighting against the shitty practices in the slaughtering industry, asking people to stop eating meat is not the solution is what I'm getting at. And that video seems to be more towards... don't eat meat = happy animals and happy humans. That's not the case, not even a bit.

Edit - LOL, you'd have to deforest a lot more land to produce enough grain to sustain a lifetime of a human than a few years for say a cow that was bred to be eaten. So it is not exactly a simple equivalent exchange, saying every bit of land is cultivatable is ignorant and shows a lack of understanding of how basic agriculture works, because if that was the case then there wouldn't be world hunger in the first place. But, I do agree with you on the reduction of greenhouse gases part.

And then you have the whole issue of how even in the current state of supply and demand, farmers are being fucked over and over by big companies with their ever growing pressure to meet the demand and how they have one of the highest suicide rates universally. And that in itself would grow tenfold if there was no alternative and the entire burden of it fell upon one industry.