About last post concerning Primal

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oonagh
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About last post concerning Primal

#1 » Post by oonagh » 18 Aug 2020 14:01

Hello everyone,

Well im surprised how all suggestions we can make about Primal are rejected and closed sometimes so rudely.

The last one concerning skipping trash to Mother was a suggestion that has foundations as it was done for SSC/TK. Why not BT as trash damage as not been nerfed.

The blizzlike thing is not an argument also as most of it is not. But yes we prefer too when its blizzlike, especially fights.

May be one of you should come play with us on a regular basis (tanking would be a good point of view) and see how things are. We know our server as some of us have been playing it for years and are not trying to exloit because its no fun.

But more generally i just dont understand why when we players suggest something that could improve our life is just simply answered the way it was or sometimes just ignored, as it was for me on crossrealm chat. You guys said that it was to have a better community. But to get a better community we need to be able to discuss.

By the way the Primal world chat now is almost dead now, you can just have look at the discord channels. It prolly makes your life easier as staff and i can understand it and go with it. But we could have implemented few things that could help Primal and not changing your life. As im working for many years in digital projects, the end user perspective has to be taken into account, its a motto. If you need any help on the subject, im ready to discuss about it.

You are saying you are a small staff and need help we can understand that too as we are a small player base too, and we need help too.

We like this server and all the job done around it. But we are concerned about it. That explains probably why sometimes we can have some reactions as noone seems to take time to listen to waht we have to say.

Im deeply sorry to see how things go between the active players base and staff. Thats clearly not helping Primal. But is it your concern really, i wonder sometimes.

By this post, im not trying to flame anyone, im just hoping you take time to understand our position and open discussion.

Thx

Kaya

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andriuspel
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Re: About last post concerning Primal

#2 » Post by andriuspel » 18 Aug 2020 15:44

i really not trying to be rude but such suggestion least by me looks mostly as attempt to manipulate content features with case of "low pop" and etc, simply i like blizzlike mechanics and personally i do not like some existing stuff which is added for desperate pop issues, I personally expect suggestions which doesn't break or which doesn't effect original content too far. Me and axis in last suggestion gave right answers and to stop further "flame wars", i was forced to lock topic. I really do not want people to skip content on which we were working.

We do not add exceptions for TW realm either (many people for example asked to revert ICC trash fixes to make npcs simply killed by aoe) but actually for TW realm there was less suggestions. Also people still are thinking that we focus on tw more... thing is bit simple... Look to bug tracker and TW realm in this case has most of reports reported, I log time to time in PW to actually sometimes ask for issues byself but usually getting silent or sometimes gathering issues byself by doing content in PW with my normal chars (thankfully PW community doesn't know which chars are mine) and within months i gathered data that most players are using abuses or exploits without reporting it (prolly not by knowing that its exploit), not saying that TW doesn;t do it too but there was really lesser attempts). Overally when i did wotlk dungeon rewrites, i would say some dungeons became similar "hard level" for ungeared people as current tbc dungeons.

Overally I ask to least provide suggestions which wouldn't include skippable content, it mostly sounds as abuse, i would suggest to better take details about BT bosses, its highly possible that they do encounter with incorrect events or maybe they lacks something (not sure, not calling it as perfect). Previously people abused black temple with invisible potions or similar spell effects, once we found that demons (as rest Legion based demons) had to have invisibility detection, i gues that made people to rage since skippable content is gone

Also its absurd that players spreaded false information in PW realm that TW realm is funrealm, while all 3 realms (TW, PW, PTR) shares same codebase, where actually PW has more modifications to make it fit for TBC progression
A son asked his father (a programmer) why the sun rises in the east, and sets in the west. His response? It works, don’t touch!

Everyone says it's difficult to work with a person while they have a negative attitude or constantly exhibit uncooperative behavior.

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Bradonja
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Re: About last post concerning Primal

#3 » Post by Bradonja » 18 Aug 2020 16:25

What bothered me the most was locking the topic and then staff proceeding to type up essays about how people supporting the suggestion were wrong... if you lock the topic it should be to end the discussion not enable 1 side to have monologues.

As for the argument about this change not being blizzlike - the way I see it, the options to go straight to vashj/KT in ssc/tk were added after the next raid tier has been out long enough that the loot from other bosses became irrelevant. Which is exactly the case in BT now for bosses before mother. I'm confident that if WOTLK hadn't come out and the game stayed in TBC they would have enabled the same thing for BT.

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andriuspel
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Re: About last post concerning Primal

#4 » Post by andriuspel » 18 Aug 2020 16:33

byself i didnt knew about this change in SSC, i wouldn;t support that skipping either if it wasn't added in retail till 3.3.5a
A son asked his father (a programmer) why the sun rises in the east, and sets in the west. His response? It works, don’t touch!

Everyone says it's difficult to work with a person while they have a negative attitude or constantly exhibit uncooperative behavior.

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Axis
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Re: About last post concerning Primal

#5 » Post by Axis » 18 Aug 2020 16:38

Bradonja wrote:
18 Aug 2020 16:25
What bothered me the most was locking the topic and then staff proceeding to type up essays about how people supporting the suggestion were wrong... if you lock the topic it should be to end the discussion not enable 1 side to have monologues.

As for the argument about this change not being blizzlike - the way I see it, the options to go straight to vashj/KT in ssc/tk were added after the next raid tier has been out long enough that the loot from other bosses became irrelevant. Which is exactly the case in BT now for bosses before mother. I'm confident that if WOTLK hadn't come out and the game stayed in TBC they would have enabled the same thing for BT.
The skip option in TK and SSC is a patch 2.4.0 change and was live on PW much earlier than it should have been, because of an oversight by a different dev long ago. It shouldn't have gone live until SWP was released on PW.
The current team that handles day-to-day decisions wasn't in charge at the time. So we can't change what's already done.

As for the topic, I'm not the one who locked it. Andrius did.
He won't support that suggestion (and I fully agree with him). So his word is final.
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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.” - Edmund Burke.

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Nyeriah
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Re: About last post concerning Primal

#6 » Post by Nyeriah » 18 Aug 2020 17:48

Two-cents: Primal was never intended to be blizzlike. The selling point was “progression through expansions with quality of life changes”. We had custom rdf rewards, custom events, custom items and such just to enable players a more enjoyable experience (and those were all good things majorly approved by the community). Basically it was the place to get the most of the game as long as the core aspects of the game were preserved.

I understand that it’s undesirable to make content skippable once you’ve spent a fair share of time working on it, but there are better ways to say you don’t favor a suggestion without antagonizing your community.
“All your life, you will be faced with a choice. You can choose love or hate…I choose love.”
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:heart:

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oonagh
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Re: About last post concerning Primal

#7 » Post by oonagh » 20 Aug 2020 12:18

So i can understand that you will nerf damage trash if not make content skippable.

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natnat123
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Re: About last post concerning Primal

#8 » Post by natnat123 » 20 Aug 2020 13:59

Currently, the HP is at Wotlk +40%, I will change this to Wotlk + 20% and I will also nerf the damage by 20%.
This is for trash mobs only.

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oonagh
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Re: About last post concerning Primal

#9 » Post by oonagh » 20 Aug 2020 16:28

Thank you so much Natnat for your understanding.

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