Release New Primal Vanilla realm

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Regent
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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#46 » Post by Regent » 29 Aug 2018 14:04

NO. -1

Why not rename the site to primalwow.org while you're at it?

Speaking as someone who praised the developers recently for finally allowing some fixes to hit TW realm after a year of neglect (and now even that has stopped completely since a month ago with the changelog page sitting unchanged), I'll just go ahead and speak mind now.

You want yet another realm while the main realm (TW) sits rotting most of the time and gets the token fix once a month (or some of Andruispel's fixes if the PW-biased devs even approve them or doesn't arbitrarily revert them) just so the staff can claim that TW "still gets some development" (A certain someone even denounced the TW realm as a discontinued project and then deleted their post for damage control a long while ago - I wish had print-screened it).
Spoiler:
---WG sits unfixed (and disabled) for almost 2 years now while the PvP scene remains unchanged (as in completely dead in both BGs and Arenas).
---players are basically forced to do PvE to farm EOT/EOF if they want to buy any pvp gear to try and dip their toes into a non-existent pvp-scene since there are no BGs or WG battles for honor points + no Stone Keeper Shard farming for honor tokens possible at the moment either.
---Several classes still need fixing with their spells and talents; the pet system is still in a "Lol" condition.
---The RDF system keeps giving IDs on heroics so people can't even spam RHCs (due to lack of raids) without eventually getting completely locked out due to 5man-heroic IDs (which also make them end up in different queues).
---The RDF queue status doesn't even function properly at times, giving incorrect readouts on queue-status.
---CC, RS and Ulduar are still far from perfect in their execution but we keep trying to make it work somehow (and succeed half the time). I'm sure wiping on LK heroic thanks to a spirit that pops out of the ground and 1-shots healers is fun.
---Majority of the hostile NPCs in TW world maps/dungeons/heroics can literally be skipped because the aggro-range is artificially reduced to 66% of normal in the config file (less than retail WOTLK's) - where's the challenge in just skipping around once you hit 80?
---Dungeons like the ones below have sat neglected and unfixed for a year or more now:
1.HOS - Bran event is a complete joke)
2. HOR - bugs out and doesn't restart if you wipe during 10-waves or on 1st/2nd boss)
3. COS - opening dialogue bypass hasn't worked for a year so have fun listening to the 5-10 min dialogue each run)
4. Azjol'Nurub - Hadronox undoable without ruining the achievement because of overheals from boss's poisons due on infinitely spawning adds. Unless you have a full BIS DPS group and heal reduction debuffs on boss, good luck killing the boss. Also, the last boss bugs out and resets to full HP if all 5 party members are not within his range and direct LOS (so if 1 guy goes afk or doesn't enter the combat ring, have fun trying to finish the run without kicking them out.
This is just a tiny fraction of a huge list of things that still need to be sorted out on TW realm ever since the "new" core messed up everything across the board.

PW hasn't even finished progressing yet (it shouldn't even exist but hey, I have a right to an opinion)...
...but sure, let's start a third realm while bearing all the aforementioned in mind. 11/10 for that idea.
I'm sure the entitled World Chat/Facebook/Twitter/Discord/Social media queens and their 1 line-statements make a convincing argument to justify a third realm.

We TW players play regularly in hopes of the developers throwing us a bone while the bug-tracker sits flooded with PW issues (with the majority of TW issues sitting neglected).
We keep dreaming about PW finally reaching RS25hc in their progression (hopefully before we all become grandparents) so the two realms can eventually merge and have a stable population for gameplay.
Here's the server owner's own words, as a reminder: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=15659#p175809
Screenshot in case the original post gets edited or deleted: https://i.imgur.com/dW3OvHX.png

I don't know why we (TW players) even bother trying to rebuild the community and raiding scene when nonsense like this is on the foreground.
I can promise you that the last remaining raiding guild here on TW realm, Hellraisers, that is keeping PvE somewhat alive will probably give up and leave if you go through with this 3rd-realm nonsense.
Sort out your priorities. Finish progressing PW to 3.3.5a and merge it with TW.
Meanwhile, keep TW alive with regular, weekly fixes so that we can keep doing what we can to keep things alive until that happens.
Either that or have the staff tell us (loyal TW players) to leave with our characters and go elsewhere like the vast majority of players have already done.

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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#47 » Post by Eronox » 29 Aug 2018 14:48

Regent wrote:
29 Aug 2018 14:04
NO. -1

Why not rename the site to primalwow.org while you're at it?

Speaking as someone who praised the developers recently for finally allowing some fixes to hit TW realm after a year of neglect (and now even that has stopped completely since a month ago with the changelog page sitting unchanged), I'll just go ahead and speak mind now.
actually my good sir, tw has gotten continous updates, every week actually.
I know because most of those I've been doing myself, I also monitor our incoming fixes out of bad habit.

And yeah the changelog page is sadly inactive but that is purely because lack of man power..
.

There's things that never will be right I know, and things need changin' everywhere you go.
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#48 » Post by Regent » 29 Aug 2018 14:57

Eronox wrote:
29 Aug 2018 14:48
actually my good sir, tw has gotten continous updates, every week actually.
I know because most of those I've been doing myself, I also monitor our incoming fixes out of bad habit.

And yeah the changelog page is sadly inactive but that is purely because lack of man power..
Really dude, let's be real here.
You can't honestly expect me (or any other TW player) to know this considering the complete lack of transparency from the staff on this. The neglect is noticeable when the most obvious bugs (or disabled content) continue to exist, despite the weekly restarts while some vague and unknown issue gets dealt with (or something gets arbitrarily changed) right under our noses.
The changelog and the weekly annoucnement on Wednesday about restarts is all we have and we aren't even told what is (or isn't) being fixed. Really dude, we're not mind readers.
So expecting us to just accept that "yes, there's weekly fixes" while someone asks "like what?" and all we can say is, "I don't know, no idea." Do you see the problem there? Do you see how the concept of neglect then settles in then?
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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#49 » Post by Dunkelstein » 29 Aug 2018 15:27

Offtopic:
Spoiler:
The face pull range reduction, I'm pretty sure, is a bandaid fix for broken maps and mobs ignoring map geometry and Z-axis range completely. Personally I'd rather have shorter pull range than mobs aggroing from the next floor/around pillars etc.
As for the devs, they are volunteers so they work on what they are interested in. It's just circumstance that the old ones who were more interested in TW are not present, and often times both realms benefit from fixes on either realm so I really don't think your constant hate for dev favoritism is grounded.
If you want a changelog, apply for staff and do it yourself. I did it once or twice, but it's literally just reading accepted commits from tester forums and chewing the words and rephrasing them for other people with pretty colors and links. So to me it felt like unnecessary double work load, you can even just become a tester and have access to view all the commits. I mostly stopped because I think I can do more important things for the community, but the demanding attitude you're bringing isn't helping anyone. Changelogs are pure grunt work, Eronox is not lying when he says there is a lack of manpower. Anyone can do them and if you can't or don't want to, stop giving shit to the people who make the most sacrifices for this community.
Also, this seems to be a theme among TW players: PW is not why the core update that f'd everything happened. A lot of TBC content was actually fixed before TBC release and the core update f'd all that and overall f'd PW harder than TW, so stop whining and pointing your finger, Regent, it's really irritating.
Ontopic:
Other than that, I agree with Regent 100%.
The timing is just not right with upcoming releases and TBC being literally in the middle of progression.
Speaking for myself and most people who I know stuck around and didn't abandon the server for where the grass looked greener every other raid tier, the main reason we wanted to play on primalwow was to Progress through Expansions on one single character, at the same speed, as a community - not because we liked "vanilla and bc on 3.3.5" better than 1.12/2.4.3 (some people might, but it's not the main reason for most).
But ever since you know who and friends left the server to be run by volunteers, it's more like stop 'n go rather than progression. It's literally Thrall and Garrosh storyline, "you left them to pick up your pieces" yadayada, so I don't get why the current/past staff is always getting so much s*** while they are trying their best to keep the ship from sinking with all of us. Everyone could help more.

My dream would be to have a re-cycle of Primal after wotlk progression is done. Move all chars to TW realm, delete everything from PW and start again with only T1 available at start, but with atleast 2x-3x speed of raid releases.
I'm calling it a dream because despite staying on the same patch, it's apparently impossible to keep old content fixed and maintained when updating and fixing for the new raids, and by the time classic retail kicks off it just won't be needed anymore unless it's an absolute fail or never progresses into tbc/wotlk.
I just can't play on stagnant servers anymore, despite how 'blizzlike' they are, staying on the last patch throughout an entire expansion with no change in difficulty, meta, gameplay and inevitably a dead end is the opposite of 'blizzlike' to me.
It's why I always jokingly call Primal the most blizzlike server in existence (you never know what happens with the next patch on primal), and it's also why subconsciously the majority of pserver community wants the F R E S H and keeps hopping servers.

If a dev wants to pick this up and get the old vanilla code working on the current core (which is what Spec is suggesting I think), please go ahead and also fix that old content on TW and PW. As a matter of fact, why not start out with that if using the same core, you can literally use it as PTR and when it works there can be as many stagnant vanilla realms as people desire.

I don't think we have to be scared Regent, as Spec has already said, with the current team there simply aren't enough resources. So it would take some sort of staff comeback, or some new prodigy to pop up who was here in primal vanilla phase already and suddenly became Neo. IF something like that does happen though, I don't see how it would be bad for either of the existing realms. It would indeed bring new players to all of the realms, and more donations to upgrade the dedicated server host back to what it was, attract more volunteer devs who can fix stuff for all realms if using the same core, etc.
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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#50 » Post by Rascall » 29 Aug 2018 15:29

Regent wrote:
29 Aug 2018 14:04
NO. -1

Why not rename the site to primalwow.org while you're at it?

Speaking as someone who praised the developers recently for finally allowing some fixes to hit TW realm after a year of neglect (and now even that has stopped completely since a month ago with the changelog page sitting unchanged), I'll just go ahead and speak mind now.

You want yet another realm while the main realm (TW) sits rotting most of the time and gets the token fix once a month (or some of Andruispel's fixes if the PW-biased devs even approve them or doesn't arbitrarily revert them) just so the staff can claim that TW "still gets some development" (A certain someone even denounced the TW realm as a discontinued project and then deleted their post for damage control a long while ago - I wish had print-screened it).
Spoiler:
---WG sits unfixed (and disabled) for almost 2 years now while the PvP scene remains unchanged (as in completely dead in both BGs and Arenas).
---players are basically forced to do PvE to farm EOT/EOF if they want to buy any pvp gear to try and dip their toes into a non-existent pvp-scene since there are no BGs or WG battles for honor points + no Stone Keeper Shard farming for honor tokens possible at the moment either.
---Several classes still need fixing with their spells and talents; the pet system is still in a "Lol" condition.
---The RDF system keeps giving IDs on heroics so people can't even spam RHCs (due to lack of raids) without eventually getting completely locked out due to 5man-heroic IDs (which also make them end up in different queues).
---The RDF queue status doesn't even function properly at times, giving incorrect readouts on queue-status.
---CC, RS and Ulduar are still far from perfect in their execution but we keep trying to make it work somehow (and succeed half the time). I'm sure wiping on LK heroic thanks to a spirit that pops out of the ground and 1-shots healers is fun.
---Majority of the hostile NPCs in TW world maps/dungeons/heroics can literally be skipped because the aggro-range is artificially reduced to 66% of normal in the config file (less than retail WOTLK's) - where's the challenge in just skipping around once you hit 80?
---Dungeons like the ones below have sat neglected and unfixed for a year or more now:
1.HOS - Bran event is a complete joke)
2. HOR - bugs out and doesn't restart if you wipe during 10-waves or on 1st/2nd boss)
3. COS - opening dialogue bypass hasn't worked for a year so have fun listening to the 5-10 min dialogue each run)
4. Azjol'Nurub - Hadronox undoable without ruining the achievement because of overheals from boss's poisons due on infinitely spawning adds. Unless you have a full BIS DPS group and heal reduction debuffs on boss, good luck killing the boss. Also, the last boss bugs out and resets to full HP if all 5 party members are not within his range and direct LOS (so if 1 guy goes afk or doesn't enter the combat ring, have fun trying to finish the run without kicking them out.
This is just a tiny fraction of a huge list of things that still need to be sorted out on TW realm ever since the "new" core messed up everything across the board.

PW hasn't even finished progressing yet (it shouldn't even exist but hey, I have a right to an opinion)...
...but sure, let's start a third realm while bearing all the aforementioned in mind. 11/10 for that idea.
I'm sure the entitled World Chat/Facebook/Twitter/Discord/Social media queens and their 1 line-statements make a convincing argument to justify a third realm.

We TW players play regularly in hopes of the developers throwing us a bone while the bug-tracker sits flooded with PW issues (with the majority of TW issues sitting neglected).
We keep dreaming about PW finally reaching RS25hc in their progression (hopefully before we all become grandparents) so the two realms can eventually merge and have a stable population for gameplay.
Here's the server owner's own words, as a reminder: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=15659#p175809
Screenshot in case the original post gets edited or deleted: https://i.imgur.com/dW3OvHX.png

I don't know why we (TW players) even bother trying to rebuild the community and raiding scene when nonsense like this is on the foreground.
I can promise you that the last remaining raiding guild here on TW realm, Hellraisers, that is keeping PvE somewhat alive will probably give up and leave if you go through with this 3rd-realm nonsense.
Sort out your priorities. Finish progressing PW to 3.3.5a and merge it with TW.
Meanwhile, keep TW alive with regular, weekly fixes so that we can keep doing what we can to keep things alive until that happens.
Either that or have the staff tell us (loyal TW players) to leave with our characters and go elsewhere like the vast majority of players have already done.

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Some wise words here. My opinion is that having a progressive realm is good and the wow server community asked for it a long time ago. However, maintaining the main realm should be the highest priority. You can keep making progressive realms as long as the main realm is fine and by merging progressive realms into the main realm constantly increase the pool of players on the main realm but the priority of fixes should be the main realm. On a side note, while browsing through wow Reddit discussion I have noticed a few players asking for a wotlk server capped with 3.1 patch with ulduar. Many raiders consider it one of the best-designed raids ever and my opinion is that running older raids with ICC gear is not challenging enough to be fun. Unless someone miraculously designs upscaling of older raids in order to get the challenge. Switching to a lower gear in order to make ulduar more challenging is a lame option in my view. Bear in mind that 3.1 patch had changes from 3.3.5a hence sometimes altering the gameplay of certain specs making wotlk perhaps feel slightly different and "fresh". But again, creating a 3.1 realm or any other realm should be done once the main realm is stable with a prospect for the future.
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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#51 » Post by Dunkelstein » 29 Aug 2018 15:41

Rascall wrote:
29 Aug 2018 15:29
[...]my opinion is that running older raids with ICC gear is not challenging enough to be fun.[...]
Which is the exact reason to have a progressive realm. Primalwow is not leeching any TW candy, if anything, it helped keep it alive and bring more dev power. What makes anyone think that there is such a thing as one "Main Realm", anyway?
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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#52 » Post by kurthos » 29 Aug 2018 15:47

Primal wont release RS until the year 2022 by internal estimation. Primal wont go into WotLK phase until 2020. Keep that in mind when you talk about PTE and the like.

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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#53 » Post by Regent » 29 Aug 2018 15:51

Dunkelstein wrote:
29 Aug 2018 15:27
Also, this seems to be a theme among TW players: PW is not why the core update that f'd everything happened. A lot of TBC content was actually fixed before TBC release and the core update f'd all that and overall f'd PW harder than TW, so stop whining and pointing your finger, Regent, it's really irritating.
A GM already left TW long ago thanks to this new core bullshit.
Proof of that GM (yes, many didn't like him/her, but she had a perfectly valid point here): https://imgur.com/a/q0Cyh5t
I'm pretty sure Dymond got tired of this as well, based on my conversations with her during her tenure here.
Do not twist my words by saying that PW is the reason TW got fucked up. What fucked up both realms was the stupid decision to move to the new core before thoroughly testing it for stability and viability. So many empty promises were made to undo the damage it caused and more than half of them still sit unfulfilled to this day. If you want to call it just MY finger pointing, I got news for you. This was the combined opinion of almost every raid leader, guild leader and veteran PvP'er and PVE'er on TW realm when the population was still relatively high and PW was still in its infancy. Call it whining if you like. I couldn't give 2 shits if you find it irritaing. It's called having an informed opinion. Get over it. I also couldn't care less if PW was fucked harder than TW because of the core change because quite frankly I don't know where you PW guys get off considering yourselves entitled to immediate changes in tuning and nerfs to old raids while CURRENT content on TW realm sits unaddressed for more than a year.
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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#54 » Post by Dunkelstein » 29 Aug 2018 16:08

kurthos wrote:
29 Aug 2018 15:47
Primal wont release RS until the year 2022 by internal estimation. Primal wont go into WotLK phase until 2020. Keep that in mind when you talk about PTE and the like.
I don't see how that changes anything, it's still more content and more content to beat you and your guild in ;) /banter . It's not like any one of us had the time to play and compete in vanilla or even half tbc phase without taking breaks so far, the only person I can think of who could qualify for that is Fabulous.
Regent wrote:
29 Aug 2018 15:51
A GM already left TW long ago thanks to this new core bullshit.
Proof of that GM (yes, many didn't like him/her, but she had a perfectly valid point here): https://imgur.com/a/q0Cyh5t
Do not twist my words by saying that PW is the reason TW got fucked up. What fucked up both realms was the stupid decision to move to the new core before thoroughly testing it for stability and viability. So many empty promises were made to undo the damage it caused and more than half of them still sit unfulfilled to this day. Call it whining if you like. I couldn't give 2 shits if you find it irritaing. It's called having an informed opinion. Get over it. I also couldn't care less if PW was fucked harder than TW because of the core change because quite frankly I don't know where you PW guys get off considering yourselves entitled to immediate changes in tuning and nerfs to old raids while CURRENT content on TW realm sits unaddressed for more than a year.
Your opinion is not well informed at all. We don't feel entitled to immediate changes in tuning and nerfs, we change it ourselves instead of asking for it.

Current Lead Dev probably quit TW before PW was ever heard of, and definetly didn't start dev work until he started playing on Primal.
We're not taking your candy. Stop screaming. You should start helping instead, but atleast stop screaming.

If you don't believe me, ask the one who is tuning and nerfing things:
natnat123 wrote:
28 Aug 2018 01:18
He was never a TW player.

Btw, it's not really showing how much you 'don't care'.
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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#55 » Post by Almsivi » 29 Aug 2018 16:29

Oh God, same shit over again...

I didn't want to jump into shitstorm again but:
TW as a realm reached endcontent and was in decline since release of RS. That's how it is. I saw two guilds I was caring about crumble down one after another due to lingering activity of players way before that unfortunate core update Am I happy with it? Nope but that's natural course of action with pservers when they reach endcontent. They burn out slowly
Did core merge with TC speed this up? Yes. It was mistake and staff did admit it. But now there is not much you can do about it.

Continue being salty if you wish, but even 100% undivided dev attention to TW wouldnt bring it back to the glory days. People would leave just at slower rate anyway.
For one simple reason. Hypetrain goes for fresh and progression nowadays. Not that many people wanna join fully progressed server when you have many new options opening.
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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#56 » Post by Regent » 29 Aug 2018 16:35

Dunkelstein wrote:
29 Aug 2018 16:08

Your opinion is not well informed at all. We don't feel entitled to immediate changes in tuning and nerfs, we change it ourselves instead of asking for it.

Current Lead Dev probably quit TW before PW was ever heard of, and definetly didn't start dev work until he started playing on Primal.
We're not taking your candy. Stop screaming. You should start helping instead, but atleast stop screaming.

If you don't believe me, ask the one who is tuning and nerfing things:
natnat123 wrote:
28 Aug 2018 01:18
He was never a TW player.

Btw, it's not really showing how much you 'don't care'.
Spoken like a true fanatic.
Never mind, I'm done arguing with you PW white knights. Logic and common sense fall on deaf ears here.

Oh and before you tell me to start helping, I've already done (and still do) my fair share by reporting stuff on the bug tracker for over two years and testing/reporting what I can on the TW realm since 2014 + helping Andruispel test bugs or his fixes these days whenever he asks it of me. The rest of it is out of my hands as a normal player.
What you call screaming, is actually called holding an entitiy accountable to its own promises and statements.
What I should or shouldn't do isn't for someone of your so-called caliber and white knight stature to decide.

Go ahead and put a third realm. Let's have PW taste the same bullshit that TW did when that abomination was launched.
I'm done with this shitshow of a topic.
Rest in Peace,
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May 20, 1989 - May 12, 2018.
Beloved Girlfriend & Mother-To-Be.
When I close my eyes, I see you.
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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#57 » Post by Eronox » 29 Aug 2018 17:03

Regent wrote:
29 Aug 2018 14:57
Eronox wrote:
29 Aug 2018 14:48
actually my good sir, tw has gotten continous updates, every week actually.
I know because most of those I've been doing myself, I also monitor our incoming fixes out of bad habit.

And yeah the changelog page is sadly inactive but that is purely because lack of man power..
Really dude, let's be real here.
You can't honestly expect me (or any other TW player) to know this considering the complete lack of transparency from the staff on this. The neglect is noticeable when the most obvious bugs (or disabled content) continue to exist, despite the weekly restarts while some vague and unknown issue gets dealt with (or something gets arbitrarily changed) right under our noses.
The changelog and the weekly annoucnement on Wednesday about restarts is all we have and we aren't even told what is (or isn't) being fixed. Really dude, we're not mind readers.
So expecting us to just accept that "yes, there's weekly fixes" while someone asks "like what?" and all we can say is, "I don't know, no idea." Do you see the problem there? Do you see how the concept of neglect then settles in then?
it's like i never said that it's due to the lack of manpower
..................oh wait i did
.

There's things that never will be right I know, and things need changin' everywhere you go.
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#58 » Post by Dunkelstein » 29 Aug 2018 17:25

Noxies wrote:
29 Aug 2018 17:03
it's like i never said that it's due to the lack of manpower
..................oh wait i did
No obviously it's because Primalwow stole all TW devs and all TW players ^_^
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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#59 » Post by Nyeriah » 29 Aug 2018 17:38

Verdande was demoted for internal reasons, that had nothing to do with her thoughts about the server whatsoever, but more in regards to her activity.

After she was demoted, she still continued to play at our servers and was one very dedicated developer, implementing many features that (part of) the community wanted (crossfaction rbgs for once). Great things that most people enjoyed but were still controversial and she got a lot of hate from that from the people who wished a more strict "Blizzlike" experience and/or just plainly disagreed with her suggestions, so she eventually got fed up. Then life came along and she stopped contributing alltogether.

Even though eventually everyone burns out at some point and everyone has their own personal reasons to leave - and believe me, when the server wasn't going well it would get heavy for all of us - nobody has ever openly declared leaving the staff because the server had too many issues. As a matter of fact, it would be the times you would see activity peaks from most people, the most engaged ones at least, like Eronox, as a top of my mind example.
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Re: Release New Primal Vanilla realm

#60 » Post by bakiss » 29 Aug 2018 18:01

I actually think opening new servers is a good thing, open them all the time in fact, if you can save database on every patch would be great, people want refreshing stuff, they don't want to play the same thing over and over again, which is why retail works so well, every 1-2 years something new comes along. I don't know if its the right timing for that tho.

New is always better :P

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