Make Wotlk Great Again

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Glader
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Make Wotlk Great Again

#1 » Post by Glader » 12 Mar 2017 18:48

[redacted]

Based on the feedback in this thread I'll be improving and iterating upon the ideas I laid out for another server instead.
Last edited by Glader on 13 Mar 2017 04:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Chillmaster
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Re: [TW] Make Wotlk Great Again

#2 » Post by Chillmaster » 12 Mar 2017 20:32

One of the strongest reasons I did not leave the server was because I don`t have to farm all my gear again. Give duration to any of the gear inside my bags and I´m out.

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Re: [TW] Make Wotlk Great Again

#3 » Post by Wilcox » 12 Mar 2017 20:41

how about no?

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Re: [TW] Make Wotlk Great Again

#4 » Post by Regent » 12 Mar 2017 20:42

I was fine with some of it until I read the part about putting a duration on gear.
Unless that changes, then no thanks. -1.
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Re: [TW] Make Wotlk Great Again

#5 » Post by Glader » 12 Mar 2017 20:43

[redacted]
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Re: [TW] Make Wotlk Great Again

#6 » Post by Gnurg » 12 Mar 2017 20:46

I have a feeling it will be dead regardless of what we do. It's an interesting suggestion, but I think it's easier to just go for Dalaran-WoW's model.

Imo, screw Stormhold, PrimalWoW should be the only realm (besides the retirement home that TrueWoW is).
Last edited by Gnurg on 12 Mar 2017 20:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [TW] Make Wotlk Great Again

#7 » Post by Etro » 12 Mar 2017 20:47

I'm one of those players that stopped playing simply because I didn't see anything at the end of the road. I was never BiS geared, but I was already tired of having nothing to do but to wait for the next ICC or RS.

Providing I understood everything correctly about revitalizing content and doing away with monotony for good reasons, it's a +1 from me. I will prolly like anything that attempts something new, at this point.
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Re: [TW] Make Wotlk Great Again

#8 » Post by Glader » 12 Mar 2017 20:54

[redacted]
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Re: Make Wotlk Great Again

#9 » Post by MerelyASetback » 12 Mar 2017 21:27

I wanted to go over every single point of these 'problems' and 'solutions' and give some feedback on them but this suggestion is so poor and so full of holes that I can't get myself to write anything coherent about it.

"ICC-simulator shenanigans": A server shouldn't have a lifespan of multiple years in the ICC-phase. Either it moves on (to Cata), restarts from scratch or gets shut down. Blizzard opted for the first option and this is how the game was designed and balanced.

All these proposed changes will change the game way too much and are impossible to balance out by the knowledge/experience anyone here has/will ever have. I would suggest moving on and playing another mmo.

Stormhold/Primalwow will be good/active/playable during the progression phase (with slight downfalls prior to new content being released) and inevitably die out as soon as ICC has been out for over a year (as it should).

Your whole duration-based gear system has so many flaws. Every week there will be so many coin flips deciding what you'll be able to do (be)for(e) the next lockout. (17 equipment slots have to be refilled each week/cycle) People won't be able to take a break from the game... People will have to farm dungeons daily to get ilvl 200 gear etc. Add in mechanics like defense rating and hit rating and it's impossible to build up a character. No one will bother to buy gems or enchants any more (since they are pretty expensive and NOT inflated or devalued at all). Or people will just find the loopholes (e.g. pvp/crafted/quest gear) to only have to clear icc every week. (And even then, what motivation would you have to keep on doing this if it's reset every cycle?)

I'm sorry but all I can get from this suggestion is that you haven't played this game (or server) deep enough or understood it well enough to grasp the real issues (there are a lot of things in your elucidation that are false or over-exaggerated), even formulate a vision, and offer 'true' solutions.
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Re: [TW] Make Wotlk Great Again

#10 » Post by Gnurg » 12 Mar 2017 21:35

Glader wrote:
Gnurg wrote:I have a feeling it will be dead regardless of what we do. It's an interesting suggestion, but I think it's easier to just go for Dalaran-WoW's model.

Imo, screw Stormhold, PrimalWoW should be the only realm (besides the retirement home that TrueWoW is).
Sure, it would be nice if PrimalWoW was the only server but there are people here for Wotlk. All Wotlk servers in general suffer from the boring dead-end ICC grind. I think this proposal is geared towards wotlk in general and not just TW or Stormhold, whatever that's suppose to in the end. Doesn't Dalaran-WoW only require you to complete the previous raid? That barley helps, it's like a bullet point in the grand solution but I think attunements alone fall very short of keeping old content alive.
I haven't played on Dalaran-WoW myself, but from what I know, you can't bring newer raid items into the old ones. Meaning that you can only clear Naxxramas in Naxxramas gear, Ulduar in Ulduar and below gear. That way, the old content stays viable, as you will constantly need to help new players progress through each raid tier.
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Re: Make Wotlk Great Again

#11 » Post by Glader » 12 Mar 2017 21:58

[redacted]
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Re: Make Wotlk Great Again

#12 » Post by x00er00 » 12 Mar 2017 22:51

Irellevant now largely and grossly irelevant , but the idea in itself is nice however alot of ppls would see such a server as a fun server and it will be short lived.
The wotlk scene as it is at the end of its lifespan the only and i stress it ... the only smart thing to do is to work on a progression server but the progression should be like VanillA -BC-WotlK-CatA-MystS etc... we need however to be flawless full scripted working quests and raids and general things....
Players nowdays aren't anything like the old Elitist Jerks material who would farm 5 irl days just to raid for 2 hours and down progression content .... ppls nowadays need the new mechanics introduced in later exapansions ( post Wrath ) ....
Such a working server as i described above would really bring ppls to the server and even who knows it would become a magnet of the private servers scene ( by having various large projects merging together ).
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Re: [TW] Make Wotlk Great Again

#13 » Post by Wilcox » 12 Mar 2017 23:19

Glader wrote:
Wilcox wrote:how about no?
Wow so constructive, thank you so much. I'll go ahead and make the changes to the post to reflect your feedback.

you wanna talk about constructive? come up with something viable

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Re: Make Wotlk Great Again

#14 » Post by MerelyASetback » 12 Mar 2017 23:49

Glader wrote:Lol, ok so your solution to the design faults in Wotlk is to have an entire duration run of Wotlk with all its faults and then move to Cata? Basically doesn't solve the problems. So try again.
Your so called 'design faults' only present themselves to a noticable extent on fully progressed servers, that's what you wrote yourself (and they are over-exaggerated). It's not my solution I provided, it's how it's designed.
Glader wrote:You've provided no supporting evidence for that statement. Surely if this suggestion is so difficult to balance and requires more knowledge and experience than the people here have then I'd imagine you are likely at the bottom of the list of people who could comment on that. Or is your claim that the people and developers here are incapable and not knowledgeable enough and that you are suggesting you are? What qualifications do you have? What qualifications do you have to make an assessment on the difficulty and the knowledge required for implementing this?
You're completely revamping the raiding and gearing system. I think it's safe to say that you'd need someone with experience in that regard (how should loot enter the game, etc.). I do not doubt that you can implement it, I'm certain you or the other developers can implement anything you want with your knowledge and your toolset. I doubt that you can make it balanced though and that's the biggest concern: your currently suggested duration (1.25x a lockout) is not realistic at all...
Glader wrote:Probably not. Why would anyone bother playing Stormhold? Why wouldn't they just play on another wotlk that has an actual playerbase? You don't really provide a convincing argument for Stormhold's potential success. You don't really provide any reason why you think anyone will just come to just another wotlk server.
Why are there so many people playing on Hellground right now? Why did people go to play on Lordaeron when there was Dalaran and GD? Truewow's scripting has always been a good point of the server. Building up enough hype, good balancing of content (not Lordaeron), stability,... all add up to the reasons why anyone would start here.
Glader wrote:I'm sorry, did you play on retail in wotlk? There were catchup mechanics but there sure weren't many. If you left for months to take a break then your guild, if it was any good, probably benched you for any progression. Don't see how that's too different from this. You're on equal footing with others.
I'm talking about missing 1 lockout, maybe 2, not months. With your current decay you're back to a green geared freshly dinged 80 after a week... And what are you talking about? 3.3.5 has loads of catchup mechanics and free emblems around every corner... (which you could evidently alter and balance to fit the current progression cycle)
Glader wrote:Seems you fundamentally missed the point here. The point was to revive older content, to increase dungeon participation which increases the health of a server. Active dungeon queues are critical to the success of new player retention and for new players to obtain gear.
That's not the point of my comment. (Your statement here is true.) But in your decay system you'll have to spam heroics every week not to fall behind or get backup gear for your gear slots that didn't get filled during raid times.
Glader wrote:Did you play wotlk in retail? Were you raiding in Naxxramas with people that weren't def capped or people who weren't nearly hitcapped? If you weren't hit capped by at least Ulduar what were you doing?
Please tell me, how you're going to gear up 2-4 tanks every week to get them defcapped for next week's ICC. The same goes for all your damage dealers that'll need hit gear. Are you making a super hardcore server? Sure, back on retail, you'd have your bleeding edge guild clear ICC 5 times a week to gear up their carries and now on Rejuv's super hardcore server we'll have to do it 6 times (but also Naxx, Ulduar and ToC at the same time, imagine loot rng screwing you over!).
Glader wrote:Maybe on the dead TW server there are none. On retail servers there were and on larger pop wotlk private servers there are too. The encouragement and support for farming style gameplay would increase the supply even if that is the case.
No one is going to spend thousands of gold each week to gem or enchant gear that's gone the next... Unless you're going to rebalance the costs of that too...
Glader wrote:Why do you think such loopholes would be left in? What motiviation? It's almost as if everyone on Warmane with mostly BiS gear asks themselves the same question. It's a dead-end game that doesn't reward daily participation or activity. There is no real motivation to play wotlk.
Yet there are thousands that do.
Glader wrote:Haven't played this game? Not only have you gone on a rant providing nothing tangible really, no alternative solutions and mostly just assumptions which are worth no more than mine but then you insinuate that I've not played WoW? Look, congratulations on raiding 30% buff ICC on TW with the 20 other people that log on. Some of us did all that on retail in 7 years ago and some of us saw these same design flaws, including many others that private servers don't encounter due to not having server transfers, and complained about them then too.
Oh man, you're really the hardcore wow player that knows everything here (like that you disenchant your old gear and that causes the so called enchanting mats inflation). For someone that has so much wow experience it's weird that you don't realize what the game (or the endgame part of it) is all about.
And literally all the alternative solutions (e.g. permanent loot binding via emblems or other tokens) that I can think of will inevitably lead to another ICC-simulator situation which only delays the problem and is just a pain in the ass all the way through...
Glader wrote:Thanks for making a very long yet nonconstructive post. At best the only valuable piece was gear maintenance which could be solved by increasing duration or increasing the amount of loot dropped and I'm sure in other ways too.
Thanks for making all pointless ad hominem attacks and not reading my points or understanding them at all. I'm not saying that the 'Blizzlike' system is good, I'm simply saying your system is worse. Your system will add an aspect to the game that's way to complicated to manage as a guild. This could well work if you downscale everything to 5 man versions and every boss drops his whole loot table on every kill. Maybe add some highscores to that or something and people will play that, twice. But it's not at all viable for 25 man raiding (How will you ever get a tier set bonus? And millions of other questions!).

Now before you ad hominem attack me again, please make a weekly raid schedule for a standard guild that plays on your server (4 tanks, 4-8 healers some with offspec dps and the rest dpsers), freshly dinged, wanting to do Naxx25 and then progressing into Ulduar asap. How long does it take for them to kill Yogg (or Algalon)? They can high roll all the loot they want. (Also Ulduar is properly (over)balanced, you can't clear it in blues) How long does it take? How many hours did they have to play to achieve it? Oh feel free to redesign your rules, you'll have to...
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Re: Make Wotlk Great Again

#15 » Post by Glader » 13 Mar 2017 03:48

I've closed the thread for now.
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