[PW] Remove World Buffs from Naxxramas

[papastrumff]

I did answer to you directly, answered to your statement "I seriously do not get why are people so stronlgy against this."
Just saying ppl are strongly against what gnurg suggested, not what you said.

[Gnurg]

When I think about it, it wouldn't make sense to block out the world buffs, which aren't limited. Seems several other players agree with this throughout the thread. If blocking out ONLY the head buffs changed your mind, please let us know.

So far it seems majority is in disfavour, so if this doesn't create any growth in the interest for this, we can reject it soon.

[Eronox]

When I think about it, it wouldn't make sense to block out the world buffs, which aren't limited. Seems several other players agree with this throughout the thread. If blocking out ONLY the head buffs changed your mind, please let us know.

So far it seems majority is in disfavour, so if this doesn't create any growth in the interest for this, we can reject it soon.

Giving it a day or two to ensure the whole community of activists gets a chance to drop by with a comment.

[Rayen]

Do not really see a point in this. In my opinion world buffs should not even be necessary to bring down the boss, and bosses should not be scaled accroding to them. I see them more as an insurance or maybe a little push for people without great gear to stay relevant in late content, especially when melee classes usually benefit from them way more than casters.

[olabola]

+1 if it helps the developers in finding a balance at bosses.

[swinguin]

Do not really see a point in this. In my opinion world buffs should not even be necessary to bring down the boss, and bosses should not be scaled accroding to them. I see them more as an insurance or maybe a little push for people without great gear to stay relevant in late content, especially when melee classes usually benefit from them way more than casters.

The problem is that if you don't tune certain bosses with worldbuffs (mostly head) in mind, they can become really trivial because especially rogues and warriors benefit so much from the absurd amount of crit they get from it.

I agree with you that bosses should not be tuned with (head)buffs in mind, but they kinda have to right now to not make certain mechanics of a boss fight be circumvented by the use of them.

Might indeed be best to just make a new suggestion with removing the headbuffs only.

[Glonz]

Very late to go through with something like this, should've rather denied all world buffs if there is a new raid released from the start and allow them for older content. I see no point in this anymore.

[Gnurg]

Do not really see a point in this. In my opinion world buffs should not even be necessary to bring down the boss, and bosses should not be scaled accroding to them. I see them more as an insurance or maybe a little push for people without great gear to stay relevant in late content, especially when melee classes usually benefit from them way more than casters.

The problem is that if you don't tune certain bosses with worldbuffs (mostly head) in mind, they can become really trivial because especially rogues and warriors benefit so much from the absurd amount of crit they get from it.

I agree with you that bosses should not be tuned with (head)buffs in mind, but they kinda have to right now to not make certain mechanics of a boss fight be circumvented by the use of them.

Might indeed be best to just make a new suggestion with removing the headbuffs only.

Only head buffs is where this suggestion has gone now. Very few wanted to remove all the world buffs are originally suggested.

[voneriksson]

+1 from me.
Would save all raiders alot of time and help devs balance bosses easier. No harm done to anyone realy

[Nyeriah]

Saying the removal of world buffs would help tuning bosses easier is rather a fallacy honestly. Firstly because they were never quoted in anyway -- we never had the idea of enforcing world buffs, but we also acknowledged that they should be used if you want to push your progression, as originally in vanilla.

It's just about progression. If you wish to kill the latest bosses then you'll probably wish to gather everything you can as what refers to buffs and consumables. As someone mentioned earlier, world buffs are a pick up to fill in gear requirement checks.

What's more, we had several bosses that couldn't be killed even with world buffs on but that's given to mistargeted tuning in my opinion. Some encounters just require more thought to it than just health buff and we are trying to work on that.

If anything, the removal of the world buffs should only make tuning harder. Because then we'll have to throw our current researches away and go back to benchmarking how much every class can output at their highest peak... for what will only last 3 months, or less.

[Longi]

Congrats Gnurgie you are bringing dramas on PW too keep going!

[Anesthesia]

I agree that removal of world buffs is not needed for easier scripting. It would also remove one vanilla experience and it is not needed at this point, as we successfully found a way to balance fights so far I see no reason to start changing how we do it few months before next expansion hits.

[freakout9903]

-1
I thought the whole point of releasing raids super buffed was to make people strive for perfection. That may include a world buff attempt, and if you fuck up, well, you didn't hit perfection. Currently I don't see the point. If content is tuned correctly(or nerfed) we don't waste the time on head buffs. Last week we didn't use head buffs in Naxx at all and cleared all 12 bosses. World buffs also help the raid if you are gimped...maybe a new guild lacking gear just starting naxx, or maybe your raid is bringing a bunch of new faces one week. I don't agree with this.

-Lights

[Gnurg]

Saying the removal of world buffs would help tuning bosses easier is rather a fallacy honestly. Firstly because they were never quoted in anyway -- we never had the idea of enforcing world buffs, but we also acknowledged that they should be used if you want to push your progression, as originally in vanilla.

It's just about progression. If you wish to kill the latest bosses then you'll probably wish to gather everything you can as what refers to buffs and consumables. As someone mentioned earlier, world buffs are a pick up to fill in gear requirement checks.

What's more, we had several bosses that couldn't be killed even with world buffs on but that's given to mistargeted tuning in my opinion. Some encounters just require more thought to it than just health buff and we are trying to work on that.

If anything, the removal of the world buffs should only make tuning harder. Because then we'll have to throw our current researches away and go back to benchmarking how much every class can output at their highest peak... for what will only last 3 months, or less.

With the previous health nerf to the bosses, only a few bosses would require world buffs. The bosses that would require a reevaluation would be the ones we can't take down without world buffs, which would be Four Horsemen (probably needs retuning now), Loatheb (you expressed interest in enabling absorbs, so it would require retuning anyways) and Gluth (though we did beat him with only the valetines buffs, I'd say valentine's buffs are less or equal to flower buff + DM buffs). Sapphirion and Kel'Thuzad haven't been attempted by anyone, so they will likely need some retuning anyways. The other bosses can stay the way they are now.

So 4 out of 5 bosses are already candidates to being (re)tuned. As for Gluth, just add 30 seconds more to the fight and it would make up for the lack of head-buffs, even though I think he's fine without them.

[Nyeriah]

I just wanted to make it clear that the argument that this will make tuning easier as used by many users I see posting here is false and won't have any positive effect. By the perspective you presented, nothing would even change to tuning, which is actually closer to reality.