Rustoak wrote:Well since my post is referenced in the original post, I'll chime in. I am still for opening up the trees, and I understand the balance nightmare this would create for the old content, however I don't believe it would be as much of a problem for pvp as many seem to feel. Will bursty classes still be bursty, yes. But that's the design of the class. It feels like you all assume people will be bursting for the amounts of damage you did in wotlk gear, but are failing to realize you wont be getting any gear over ilvl 89 here. Instead of poo-pooing on anything that doesn't keep the race/class you picked on top, why not at least be open to trying it.
As it stands now, the 2 primary class specs I truly enjoy, are unplayable. Should I have read more into how the server was doing things before rolling, Probably so. That said however, I want to play my enhancement shaman or prot paladin in this content, on this server. But at the moment, the only one of those 2 that can even get close to usable is the prot paladin, but not without getting a very specific gear set, and that and only that gear. which means no upgrade paths, no reason not to just roll as one of the weaker healers/buff bots currently.
And I also see people harping on about the vanilla experience over and over. Not to be a dick, but this isn't that server if that's your goal. You will NOT get that experience here. What I signed up for here was to be able to redo my glory days of raiding through vanilla CONTENT up through bc CONTENT and then eventually wotlk CONTENT. Not to reinvent the fucking wheel to get there. Wotlk had some of the most balanced class setups that this game has ever had, and that was a result of having ALL available talents in the talent trees. /end
God you are wrong on so many levels I don't know whether I want to laugh at you or cry. Actually I'm doing both right now, I'm laughing so hard at you that I'm crying. Im going to copy/pasta my response to this thread in the prior page. I suggest you actually sit down and read it because it literally tells you exactly why you are wrong on all the points you bring up, and exactly why the devs will NEVER open up the talents before their appropriate expansions, and I fucking garuntee that.
Enjoy the read.
I see everyone talking from a players stand point in regards to opening up 51 point talents, so I wanted to try to appeal to you from a developers/owners standpoint.
Opening up the 51 point talents will seriously risk the longevity and potential growth of this server. Everyone who joined this server KNEW going into it that talents were restricted to 31 and would open up as expansions came along. Changing this now would cause a portion of your members to leave and could harm potential new players from joining after seeing a dip in population or not being appealed to the server any longer.
Even if you were to open up a PTR to test it, think what is going to happen to the servers population. You are going to split the already low population with players playing the PTR instead of live realms. Splintering the community now and making the live server appear dead would seriously harm the growth the server is currently having. When I log onto a server, and see the place dead it makes me want to quit. Add that to very low RDF groups and bg/arena Qs would further harm the server and the player base playing on the live realm.
This would also open up a massive amount of work for you guys as developers to take on. If you think balancing the abilities right now is hard or a lot of work, you wont believe whats going to happen when you open up talents.
IF YOU WANT REAL GROWTH IN POPULATION you need to focus on getting content out. I can tell you right now that 9 months of only MC>Ony>ZG is going to cause serious stagnation in the population and raiding guilds. No one wants to do this content for 9 months. The current raiding guilds and potential player growth would far much prefer having Ony and ZG clumped together so it is only 6 months and get BWL in 6 months.
Right now you need to work about hitting your marks and making good on your word to ensure these raids are out when you say so. If you are able to do this or get ahead of schedule you will bring in players from other servers who are not getting any content out and it will keep current raiders on your server.
In order to do this you need to completely nip this debate over opening 51 point talents, there SHOULD NOT be any PTR there should not be any time or effort put into balancing this or making this happen.
Now lets take a look at how this would affect us as players and the mechanics/gameplay of the server if these changes were to be put in place.
First off lets look at balance, I see everyone who is for the talents to be put in use this common defense "oh there needs to be balance changes anyway so lets do it now instead of waiting for BC/WoTLK to balance the spells". This is wrong on so many levels and has zero thought or analysis put into it. Let me explain why you are wrong. ALOT of these talents/abilties put into place in later expansions have their co-efficients and percentages based on the gear and HP numbers at their appropriate levels.
Heres an example, lets say spell "A" has a 115% wep dmg coefficient in BC because hp levels are inflated compared to vanilla, if we want spell "A" to be vanilla balanced the co-efficient would have to be changed from 115% to a lower co-efficient. Same with spell power co-efficients and etc. The devs would have to go through all this work to make these spells work in vanilla content with vanilla hp levels, and then completely change everything back to their original co-efficients so they would be properly balanced in their respective expansions.
If you look at this in regards to PvP WE DO NOT HAVE RESILIENCE in the game yet, resilience acted kind of a balancing mechanism for alot of the BC/WotLK spells for them to be used in both pve and pvp withouth completely breaking either aspect of the game.
If you look at this in regards to PvE you are missing a huge fundamental error in enabling these talents. These talents were created with the current content and boss mechanics in their respective expansions. The mechanics and gameplay of raids in Vanilla, vs BC vs WoTLK is vastly different and these spells and abilties completely alter the style of raiding since there were alot more complex and movement based mechanics in the game.
The arguement that the game is already unbalanced so why not make it more unbalanced and then try to rebalance it is totally idiotic. Adding these talents aren't going to make this game more unbalanced, it will straight up break the game because there are so many factors and variables not being counted towards this decision.
Supporting the opening to the talents will not only slow down the progression of content creation on this server but will also straight up kill the damn server.
There is so much more I could go into this topic on why its a bad idea, but I already wrote a big enough novel for you guys to read.