Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

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Relina
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#31 » Post by Relina » 07 Aug 2013 17:20

If u say resto shaman needs mp5 to regen u have not seen Errorista :)
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Ashiel
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#32 » Post by Ashiel » 08 Aug 2013 16:26

I realize the following is off-topic concerning the brutal gladiator set, but please ignore us because talking about gear differences and class balance is a fun passtime while we wait for more word from the staff concerning the Brutal Gladiator armaments. :)
========================================================================================
Peacecraft wrote:If u say resto shaman needs mp5 to regen u have not seen Errorista :)
Actually, having looked through the talent trees of the casting classes, I actually don't think the lack of +MP5 gear would hurt anyone except perhaps Shamans and Paladins, and even then I think Shamans could care less about the effects (I was merely noting that they along with Paladins would be the most heavily affected by removing MP5 for Spirit).

Most of the other classes either don't care about spirit beyond passive benefits (such as warlocks and mages using spirit to get bonus spellpower or critical hit chances) so nothing changes there. Druids have methods for boosting their mana-regen regardless of spirit or in ways that spirit benefits (boomkin gain 10% of their total Intellect as MP5, which is pretty huge; and tier 3 resto gives 50% mana regen while casting which benefits from +Spirit). As you point out, Resto Shamans aren't starved for mana without MP5 gear (counting their mana totems they can largely ignore +MP5 mail), and Elemental Shamans can get 12% of their intellect as MP5 (hax! :P).

Paladins on the other hand I think would be the ones to actually suffer from such an adjustment to gear. Mostly because from what I've noticed while studying the Paladin talent trees, they don't have much that improves their ability to regenerate mana (out of combat or otherwise). Prot has Divine Plea, Holy has Improved Blessing of Wisdom, and Ret has Judgments of the Wise, but none of these things add directly into mana regen or benefit from spirit; whereas you can't walk three steps without tripping over some plate armor with +MP5 slathered all over it. :lol:

It makes my priest jealous. :roll:
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#33 » Post by Relina » 08 Aug 2013 23:07

I pointed out erro cos he uses crit stacking to regen mana off Improved Water Shield proc's from chain casting Chain Heal which results in more mana gained from the proc than cost of the spell almost 70% of the time when raid buffed (its a play style which is not that widely used ) most other shamans would suffer from lack of mp5 gear though since they focus on haste / sp stack which burns through mana like crazy fast.

But this is off-topic :D

On topic: any update on getting ratings removed from legacy gear ?
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#34 » Post by Myaoming » 09 Aug 2013 01:49

We're working on the prices. The price range is somehow limited, as logically, it must be between level 60 gear's price and level 80 Furious gear's price. However we could totally ignore that.
Price suggestions are totally appreciated :)
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#35 » Post by Blacklustersoldier » 09 Aug 2013 05:58

Myaoming wrote:We're working on the prices. The price range is somehow limited, as logically, it must be between level 60 gear's price and level 80 Furious gear's price. However we could totally ignore that.
Price suggestions are totally appreciated :)

finnaly a post that actually sticks to the topic

how about 50k honor each piece?

and are you gonna add the weapons aswell or just the armors?
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#36 » Post by Myaoming » 09 Aug 2013 12:11

We're gonna modify the cost of everything Brutal S4 and Savage S3.
Please refer to the links to have an idea on how to price them.
Elder Myaoming (aka Slardar): Level 80 Tauren Feral PvE/PvP
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#37 » Post by Doctor_J » 09 Aug 2013 12:15

Myaoming wrote:We're gonna modify the cost of everything Brutal S4 and Savage S3.
Please refer to the links to have an idea on how to price them.
Well hope you are ready to write query for all s3 items then xd

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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#38 » Post by Ashiel » 09 Aug 2013 12:18

Ashiel wrote:I'd estimate the value of each piece is roughly its arena point cost x20. That would place the cost of these gears from their vendors at:

Chest 37,500 Honor
Head 37,500 Honor
Hands 22,500 Honor
Legs 37,500 Honor
Shoulders 30,000 Honor
Total 165,000 Honor
I think this is a pretty good price model. I'd at least like to see it no higher. It's more expensive than the Field Marshal gear, but not heinously so, and it's pretty uniform. It's within the realm of reasonable I think (I'm pretty sure you could amass the honor points needed between 60 and 70, allowing you to gear-up for your next PvP bracket by doing more PvP). Because of the level requirements, we don't have to worry about people purchasing the gear too soon (this is pretty much true for all PvP-related items, as otherwise they're just going to waste your bank/bag space in the meantime).

What makes me the most excited about this is that it will fill a big gap in the PvP theater of our server. Currently there is a wide range of levels where there is no suitable PvP gear (pretty much from 70-77) other than a few accessories (rings, cloaks, pendants) which don't give much resilience. Resilience being extremely important from 70+, not having it basically means getting blown up for everything except Prot warriors (due to their -10% incoming damage) or maybe DKs in frost presence (-8% incoming). The resilience on the 70 PvP sets would allow for better competition for sub-78 PvPers, which would be good for spurring more 70-79 PvP (the lower your level the more the resilience matters to you).

At level 70, the brutal gladiator's battlegear + brutal gladiator's greatsword + 70 pvp ring and cloak provides 15.36% resilience, which is significant. It also adds +5.79% chance to hit. This alone would make the 70s bracket more lively (because the lower end of the 70s bracket if wearing the PvP gear would be able to offset the level disadvantage with the +hit rating, and the 15% resilience would allow such members to survive long enough to contribute tactically).

I think the Arena cost x20 is a good benchmark and would make figuring out their new prices easy enough (it's a simple and standardized formula). It would also make it easy to change many of the prices quickly, since you'd just check the item cost and multiply it by 20, mark the value, then keep moving through the items.

And naturally, I do believe the PvP weapons would need to be converted too. :)

As an added benefit, if the push for Transmogrification goes through, it would make these PvP sets even more appreciated as those of us who are going to replace 70 gear when we get to 78-80 would have the option to transmog the old PvP gear onto our new items, which gives them a more lasting value. :D
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#39 » Post by Ashiel » 09 Aug 2013 13:18

Myaoming wrote:We're gonna modify the cost of everything Brutal S4 and Savage S3.
Please refer to the links to have an idea on how to price them.
As I noted in my previous post, a standardized formula would make pricing all these things much easier. Something between Arena cost x 20 = Honor cost would allow you to quickly convert any arena-point cost items into honor points. And it gives a good dial if you want to increase or decrease the price (just decrease or increase the multiplier a bit).

In odd cases such as the S3 and S4 items having the same cost in arena points (comparing say the Vengeful greatsword vs Brutal greatsword), you could adjust the multiplier down a bit. So while the brutal greatsword might cost 3750 x 20 = 75,000 honor, the Vengeful might be multiplied by x18 and cost 67,500 honor points.

That being said, maybe x20 might be a bit much. That puts the best 70 gear (no item has higher than 3750 arena point value on the sets) at the honor point cap (75,000) which is really high. Let's try a few different multipliers and look and see which seem the most reasonable.

x20 Multiplier
Season 3 Armor
Head = 30,000
Shoulder = 24,000
Chest = 30,000
Hands = 18,000
Legs = 30,000
Total Armor Set = 132,000 honor

Season 4 Armor
Head = 37,500
Shoulders = 30,000
Chest = 37,500
Hands = 22,500
Legs = 37,500
Total Armor Set= 165,000 honor

x18 Multiplier
Season 3 Armor
Head = 27,000
Shoulder = 21,600
Chest = 27,000
Hands = 16,200
Legs = 27,000
Total Armor Set = 132,000 honor

Season 4 Armor
Head = 33,750
Shoulders = 27,000
Chest = 33,750
Hands = 20,250
Legs = 33,750
Total Armor Set= 148,500 honor

x15 Multiplier
Season 3 Armor
Head = 22,500
Shoulder = 18,000
Chest = 22,500
Hands = 13,500
Legs = 22,500
Total Armor Set = 99,000 honor

Season 4 Armor
Head = 28,125
Shoulders = 22,500
Chest = 28,125
Hands = 16,875
Legs = 28,125
Total Armor Set= 123,750 honor

Commentary: I think I'm partial to the x15 costs, given that these aren't end-game PvP gears and will be replaced. I think it would be nice to be able to reasonably amass all the needed honor points between 60-69 to purchase your 70s bracket PvP gear, and I think the x15 costs might be more suitable for this (while still being more costly than the 60s Field Marshal gear).

Now for Weapons.

x20 Multiplier
Weapons
Fist Weapons
Main Hand = 52,500
Off-Hand = 22,500
Daggers
Main Hand = 63,000
Off-hand = 22,500
Swords
Main Hand = 52,500
Off-Hand = 22,500
Two-Hand = 75,000
Axes
Main Hand = 52,500
Off-Hand = 22,500
Two-Hand = 75,000
Waraxe/Hatchet = 20,000
Maces
Main Hand = 63,000
Off-Hand = 52,500
Two-Hand = 75,000
Polearms/Staves/Bows/Guns
Two-Hand = 75,000
Thrown/Wands
Two-Hand = 20,000

x18 Multiplier
Weapons
Fist Weapons
Main Hand = 47,250
Off-Hand = 20,250
Daggers
Main Hand = 56,700
Off-hand = 20,250
Swords
Main Hand = 47,250
Off-Hand = 20,250
Two-Hand = 67,500
Axes
Main Hand = 47,250
Off-Hand = 20,250
Two-Hand = 67,500
Waraxe/Hatchet = 18,000
Maces
Main Hand = 56,700
Off-Hand = 47,250
Two-Hand = 67,500
Polearms/Staves/Bows/Guns
Two-Hand = 67,500
Thrown/Wands
Two-Hand = 18,000

x15 Multiplier
Weapons
Fist Weapons
Main Hand = 39,375
Off-Hand = 16,875
Daggers
Main Hand = 47,250
Off-hand = 16,875
Swords
Main Hand = 39,375
Off-Hand = 16,875
Two-Hand = 56,250
Axes
Main Hand = 39,375
Off-Hand = 16,875
Two-Hand = 56,250
Waraxe/Hatchet = 15,000
Maces
Main Hand = 47,250
Off-Hand = 39,375
Two-Hand = 56,250
Polearms/Staves/Bows/Guns
Two-Hand = 56,250
Thrown/Wands
Two-Hand = 15,000

x12 Multiplier
Weapons
Fist Weapons
Main Hand = 31,500
Off-Hand = 13,500
Daggers
Main Hand = 37,800
Off-hand = 13,500
Swords
Main Hand = 31,500
Off-Hand = 13,500
Two-Hand = 45,000
Axes
Main Hand = 31,500
Off-Hand = 13,500
Two-Hand = 45,000
Waraxe/Hatchet = 12,000
Maces
Main Hand = 37,800
Off-Hand = 31,500
Two-Hand = 45,000
Polearms/Staves/Bows/Guns
Two-Hand = 45,000
Thrown/Wands
Two-Hand = 12,000

Something kind of like this. We could look at different pricing formulas and come up with something reasonable as fellow players. There's a few design goals to keep in mind.

1) We should avoid making it cheaper than the level 60 field marshal sets gears and their weapons.
2) We should avoid making it too expensive. The idea is to be able to gear into 60s gear by 60, and gear in 70s gear by 70. Since you can't use the PvP gear before level 70, I'm not really worried about it being cheaply priced (since to gear up you're going to need the PvP armor, weapons, trinkets, amulets, rings, and cloak, most of accessories are already very pricy).
3) Whatever the brutal set costs, the vengeful set should probably be a 1-2 drop cheaper in multiplier, because it has the same level requirements but is cheaper. You should get what you pay for.


Discuss?
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#40 » Post by Doctor_J » 11 Aug 2013 12:24

OK once the host switch has occured price changes for arena season 4 items will go live,

for now only Season 4 (Brutal) items have had arena point/rating requirements removed

Prices are : -

Chest, Leg, Head Pieces 38,000 Honor
Hand and Shoulder Pieces 28,000 Honor
Main Hand Weapons 26,000 Honor
Off Hand Weapons/Off Hand 12,000 Honor
Two Hand Weapons 38,000 Honor
Idols, Totems, Librams, Wands, Thrown 10,000 Honor
Shields 18,000 Honor

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Ashiel
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#41 » Post by Ashiel » 13 Aug 2013 20:43

Doctor_J wrote:OK once the host switch has occured price changes for arena season 4 items will go live,

for now only Season 4 (Brutal) items have had arena point/rating requirements removed

Prices are : -

Chest, Leg, Head Pieces 38,000 Honor
Hand and Shoulder Pieces 28,000 Honor
Main Hand Weapons 26,000 Honor
Off Hand Weapons/Off Hand 12,000 Honor
Two Hand Weapons 38,000 Honor
Idols, Totems, Librams, Wands, Thrown 10,000 Honor
Shields 18,000 Honor
Epic and win. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much! We finally have PvP sets for for 70s! :D
Also, the prices seem fair to me. ^_^
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#42 » Post by Blacklustersoldier » 13 Aug 2013 22:13

where does one buy the brutal weapons?
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#43 » Post by Fivecapz » 14 Aug 2013 02:07

you missed all of the 70 gems, they are all for arena points, and some weapons are for arena points also at the brutal vendor.
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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#44 » Post by Doctor_J » 14 Aug 2013 09:12

1) It was never agreed about gems and don't see no reason to change cost of 70 gems
2) When I was querying vendor I may have missed a extendedcostcode which is why some weapons which cost 1150 ap points where changed, sill sort that out later today

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Re: Modify the Cost of the Brutal Gladiator Sets

#45 » Post by Doctor_J » 14 Aug 2013 09:40

Ok the handful of weapons which still required ap/rating are now same prices as other items,

Sorry about this, this was due to a different extendedcostcodes on these few items which I missed when listing items from vendor. I thought I got them all but looks like i missed 3 extendedcostcodes when executing queries to list items from same vendor with same extendedcost xd.

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