Feral Druid Tweaking (Cat)

User avatar
dgreenbe
Posts: 61
Joined: 24 Apr 2016 08:51

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#16 » Post by dgreenbe » 19 Sep 2017 08:50

I also took a look at the original TBC balance thread, and noticed that people were saying that feral dps while low was OK because they "feel" it will especially scale well. I don't know why that would be the case, so if someone else has perspective or information on this I would love to hear it.

Edit: did some PTR testing. While there is no substitute for full buffs/debuffs, basic testing on essentially bis gear used Ret for comparison (an example of another hybrid class with a TBC single-target focus, even though it is currently very good in AOE with Wrath changes. Ret also has fairly similar haste scaling aside from Ret scaling advantages making haste better). The Ret did approximately 150% the damage done by the Feral, with about 81% of damage capable of crits compared with 60% for Feral. This did not include execute phase, of course--when Ret gains Hammer of Wrath and the 4t6 bonus to its damage.

I also tried FB instead of Rip. While 84% of Feral damage could crit, FB didn't surpass Rip (which was relieving, since FB is tricky).

User avatar
Mickiii
Posts: 34
Joined: 19 Feb 2014 16:17

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#17 » Post by Mickiii » 04 Oct 2017 09:39

I felt that swipe in Bear however is a bit too low on the threat generating front. But perhaps that is caused by not inflicting enough damage due to lack of attack power? (Bear form, around 1.8k Attack Power) If i recall correctly Swipe used to generate a good amount of threat, but I might be mistaken.

User avatar
Mickiii
Posts: 34
Joined: 19 Feb 2014 16:17

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#18 » Post by Mickiii » 05 Oct 2017 11:22

Further question:
I was messing with one of the Apex Guardians in Ogri´la yesterday and noticed while tanking it, that i was at around 700-900 TPS. What is a good Threat Per Second value to be aiming at to be able to tank normals/heroics?

I feel that i don't have enough knowledge about the WOTLK things on TBC content to feel comfortable so any hints would be appreciated.

User avatar
dgreenbe
Posts: 61
Joined: 24 Apr 2016 08:51

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#19 » Post by dgreenbe » 07 Oct 2017 08:39

I mainly meant this as a DPS thread, I should've specified in the topic title, sorry. Mainly, make sure Mangle is up and use Maul. If your rage is low, use FF on cd since it costs a gcd but no rage. Put up Lacerate stacks if you can if your rage is solid. You can also get Idol of Brutality to buff Maul/Swipe damage from Stratholme (Magistrate Barthilas).

Also, I saw an interesting comment in the Prot Pally thread that is slightly out of context but worth mentioning:
Nyeriah wrote:
07 Oct 2017 00:01
Having every class be good main tanks and aoe tanks isn't the goal because that's not how the game was designed to start with. There will always be classes that stand out better than others at something.
Feral DPS in Wrath is intended to be very strong at one specific thing: sustained, single-target DPS. On this server, the opposite is the case, hence this thread. Other hybrid and even strong AOE specs are superior.

Due to fairly poor attack power coefficients as a result of 1.0 base attack speed, Feral accomplishes this DPS by scaling with agility (providing some AP but primarily crit rating). Thus, the low crit scaling here is the main missing factor and why I've focused on it in this thread as the explanation for why Feral DPS is not doing very well in an area in which it should be standing out.

User avatar
lrctgl
Donor
Posts: 82
Joined: 19 Jan 2016 18:02

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#20 » Post by lrctgl » 07 Oct 2017 11:31

dgreenbe wrote:
07 Oct 2017 08:39


Feral DPS in Wrath is intended to be very strong at one specific thing: sustained, single-target DPS. On this server, the opposite is the case, hence this thread. Other hybrid and even strong AOE specs are superior.

this isnt wrath tho its an emulation of tbc on a wrath client

User avatar
jetteroo
Posts: 88
Joined: 18 Feb 2017 05:57

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#21 » Post by jetteroo » 07 Oct 2017 13:44

Well, mechanics are all wrath , just that talents and abilities beyond 70 are locked....

Thats the unique thing about primal wow. It’s essentially a wotlk server with nerfed toons running on tbc content.

Hence the many discussions on class balance which will not necessarily be blizzlike .

User avatar
.Watson1988
Posts: 56
Joined: 18 Jul 2015 19:10

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#22 » Post by .Watson1988 » 07 Oct 2017 14:08

How about raid guilds start posting raid logs so a peer to peer comparison between specs and classes across the section of currently available boss fights can take place and be based upon real empirical data? By doing this it will be much clearer if a spec is really that far behind or if some players just did not grasp the concept of the spec. If the latter is the case then we should be able to find a positive outlier (i.e. a "good player" of the class/spec in question) in the data that exceeds his/her class brethren and thus renders the thesis of the spec being underpowered a debunked myth.

User avatar
Nyeriah

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#23 » Post by Nyeriah » 07 Oct 2017 14:33

Elementary, my dear Watson.

By the way, the percentage buff doesn't affect attack power scaling. It's calculated after it goes through that.

User avatar
.Watson1988
Posts: 56
Joined: 18 Jul 2015 19:10

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#24 » Post by .Watson1988 » 07 Oct 2017 14:54

Nyeriah wrote:
07 Oct 2017 14:33
By the way, the percentage buff doesn't affect attack power scaling. It's calculated after it goes through that.
simplistic example:

damage = base damage + b * attack power

now you buff by a constant factor c, thus:

c * damage = c * (base damage + b * attack power) = c*base damage + c*b*attack power

So the sensitivity b to attack power actually changed by the factor of c which means damage now scales better (if c>1) in regard to attack power than before.

Or did I not correctly understand the way you do the damage alteration?

User avatar
Anesthesia
Former Staff
Posts: 180
Joined: 04 Mar 2016 07:30

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#25 » Post by Anesthesia » 07 Oct 2017 15:34

dgreenbe wrote:
07 Oct 2017 08:39
Feral DPS in Wrath is intended to be very strong at one specific thing: sustained, single-target DPS. On this server, the opposite is the case...
What is the opposite?

unbuffed fight for 3 minutes vs Boss dummy --> https://i.imgur.com/nHZZsdu.png
Ill post damage meters after our next raid, but its above 2k in 25m raids, keep in mind I just changed from tank to dps and Im missing few current bis items and better enchants/gems.
No one can see what's in my pocket.

User avatar
Nyeriah

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#26 » Post by Nyeriah » 07 Oct 2017 15:59

.Watson1988 wrote:
07 Oct 2017 14:54
Nyeriah wrote:
07 Oct 2017 14:33
By the way, the percentage buff doesn't affect attack power scaling. It's calculated after it goes through that.
simplistic example:

damage = base damage + b * attack power

now you buff by a constant factor c, thus:

c * damage = c * (base damage + b * attack power) = c*base damage + c*b*attack power

So the sensitivity b to attack power actually changed by the factor of c which means damage now scales better (if c>1) in regard to attack power than before.

Or did I not correctly understand the way you do the damage alteration?
What I meant is that their specific formula hasn't changed. Each spell has a different formula, but the % buff from us is applied after that formula, before other percentage bonuses are calculated. So for example RIP and that thing that gives bonus damage to bleeds. It will be calculated as final = damage + primal buff + external percentage bonuses.

User avatar
.Watson1988
Posts: 56
Joined: 18 Jul 2015 19:10

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#27 » Post by .Watson1988 » 07 Oct 2017 18:29

Nyeriah wrote:
07 Oct 2017 15:59
It will be calculated as final = damage + primal buff + external percentage bonuses.
Okay, the plus signs here are confusing me. If it is not too much trouble for you, can you just copy paste some lines of code in which such alteration takes place? That might clear up the confusion about the whole issue in general.

User avatar
Mickiii
Posts: 34
Joined: 19 Feb 2014 16:17

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#28 » Post by Mickiii » 07 Oct 2017 19:04

Anesthesia wrote:
07 Oct 2017 15:34
dgreenbe wrote:
07 Oct 2017 08:39
Feral DPS in Wrath is intended to be very strong at one specific thing: sustained, single-target DPS. On this server, the opposite is the case...
What is the opposite?

unbuffed fight for 3 minutes vs Boss dummy --> https://i.imgur.com/nHZZsdu.png
Ill post damage meters after our next raid, but its above 2k in 25m raids, keep in mind I just changed from tank to dps and Im missing few current bis items and better enchants/gems.

What rotation do you have to achive that dps?

User avatar
Theblomb
Posts: 93
Joined: 26 Jul 2015 00:08

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#29 » Post by Theblomb » 07 Oct 2017 20:18

There's one particular hiccup for feral dps right now, which is 2/2 Primal Fury talent not granting an extra combo point every time you crit, I've tried to bring focus to the bug report, but it's set as a lower prio I think.

User avatar
dgreenbe
Posts: 61
Joined: 24 Apr 2016 08:51

Re: Feral Druid Tweaking

#30 » Post by dgreenbe » 07 Oct 2017 21:22

TBH it's bad but it's not necessarily the end of the world, I've seen it more buggy on other servers. I'm assuming 100% Rip uptime, especially since the testing for scaling dps on higher gear makes full Rip uptime less of an issue.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest