[Accepted] Elemental Shaman Balance Updates
- papastrumff
- Former Staff
- Posts: 116
- Joined: 14 Oct 2016 11:15
[Accepted] Elemental Shaman Balance Updates
In the spirit of increasing dmg of feral druid inside dungeons and raids to make them viable, I would like to suggest to halve the mana cost of lightning bolt and only lightning bolt, so that casting chain lightning stays costy and one thinks about casting it while halving lightning bolt cost will do nothing but to prolong ele shamans mana pools to something more reasonable as it should be (using mana pots every 2 min in real tbc or mana replenish from thunderstorm in wotlk).
So that is basically the reason for this suggestion, eles going oom pretty fast because of not having thunderstorm nor do they have 2 min cd on potions from TBC like it is shown in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLap3xv1ofU 9:07.
This will not increase their dps, just longevity. If 50% reduction might be too much, maybe 33% reduction in mana cost should be done. I could not test neither so I would not know.
I would do 50% and then nerf if it turns out to actually replenish more mana from jow and mp5 than lose.
So that is basically the reason for this suggestion, eles going oom pretty fast because of not having thunderstorm nor do they have 2 min cd on potions from TBC like it is shown in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLap3xv1ofU 9:07.
This will not increase their dps, just longevity. If 50% reduction might be too much, maybe 33% reduction in mana cost should be done. I could not test neither so I would not know.
I would do 50% and then nerf if it turns out to actually replenish more mana from jow and mp5 than lose.
Re: Elemental shaman
solid suggestion IMO. ele shamans with about 30% crit should be able to spam LB and use CL on clearcasting procs and not have major mana issues. Primal mechanics should make such specs better compared to TBC, not worse
Re: Elemental shaman
well the same counts for shadowpriest
- papastrumff
- Former Staff
- Posts: 116
- Joined: 14 Oct 2016 11:15
Re: Elemental shaman
Same does count for spriest, tho I have seen spriest last for whole prince fight in kara without innervate and mana tide.
There were some logs posted by someone on forums. Spriest not only last longer but has significantly higher dps, highest of all casters as I could see.
While elemental goes oom every single boss fight by just spamming lb and cant do anything about it.
For spriest, what ability would you reduce mana cost of?
There were some logs posted by someone on forums. Spriest not only last longer but has significantly higher dps, highest of all casters as I could see.
While elemental goes oom every single boss fight by just spamming lb and cant do anything about it.
For spriest, what ability would you reduce mana cost of?
Re: Elemental shaman
i am not sure. i was in kara with my shadowpriest (alt but kinda good gear already), went for SP and crit first, no chance to keep mana up in long fights without innervate. i talked to a few good geared and good shadowpriests like remix and the answers were always the same "find a druid friend who innervates you or it is a problem"
yeah i saw that log and remix was in it, but he told me it is kinda impossible in long fights without innervate.
back to the raid i was in, i had replenishment, mana tide, but no innervate. i tried it with "normal" caster gear first, no chance. later, i switched to MP5 flask, mp5 oil, mp5 food, 2 mp5 trinkets (onyxia and the one with 16 mp5 from dungeon) and spirit gear in all other slots, except that i took spellfire and spellstrike set. i took mana potion, dark rune and even then it was not possible in fights like for example prince, opera event and moroes.
so yeah if i kinda take almost full mp5/spirit gear + all consumables that there are to increase mp5 and get mana back and still i cannot keep the mana up in long fights with good support but without innervate, then there is obviously something wrong. because i played shadow priest in TBC retail too. it was bad there with the mana, but not THAT bad. there you could take unlimited mana potions, which was removed for stuff like dispersion and glyphs, which we do not have here.
i am not really sure what ability costs i would like to reduce, i kinda don't raid often enough with that char. but since romeo & juliet, moroes requires a lot of re-dotting, i would probably say the dots are the biggest problem, also in long single target fights. so probably vampiric touch, SW:P, devouring plague. also i heard, some people don't use mind blast when they are pretty much oom and that is a problem since it triggers replenish. so i would maybe lower costs of SW:P, devouring plague and vampiric touch by 50% so that people can test how it goes with those changes.
yeah i saw that log and remix was in it, but he told me it is kinda impossible in long fights without innervate.
back to the raid i was in, i had replenishment, mana tide, but no innervate. i tried it with "normal" caster gear first, no chance. later, i switched to MP5 flask, mp5 oil, mp5 food, 2 mp5 trinkets (onyxia and the one with 16 mp5 from dungeon) and spirit gear in all other slots, except that i took spellfire and spellstrike set. i took mana potion, dark rune and even then it was not possible in fights like for example prince, opera event and moroes.
so yeah if i kinda take almost full mp5/spirit gear + all consumables that there are to increase mp5 and get mana back and still i cannot keep the mana up in long fights with good support but without innervate, then there is obviously something wrong. because i played shadow priest in TBC retail too. it was bad there with the mana, but not THAT bad. there you could take unlimited mana potions, which was removed for stuff like dispersion and glyphs, which we do not have here.
i am not really sure what ability costs i would like to reduce, i kinda don't raid often enough with that char. but since romeo & juliet, moroes requires a lot of re-dotting, i would probably say the dots are the biggest problem, also in long single target fights. so probably vampiric touch, SW:P, devouring plague. also i heard, some people don't use mind blast when they are pretty much oom and that is a problem since it triggers replenish. so i would maybe lower costs of SW:P, devouring plague and vampiric touch by 50% so that people can test how it goes with those changes.
- papastrumff
- Former Staff
- Posts: 116
- Joined: 14 Oct 2016 11:15
Re: Elemental shaman
Ok I guess I can chnge this topic to ele shaman and spriest.
Now for the spells, I can see mind flay refresh shadow word pain, and dplague afaik does a lot of dmg on cast so it wouldnt be good idea to make dp spam a viable burst. Maybe mind blast and mind flay if mind flay is the filler spell for spriest.
This is also for single target dmg, like ele goes oom just as fast on aoe fight with magma and fire nova and chain light being rly costy.
I will edit post for spriest reduction costs suggestion, pls poke remix in game and other active spriests of what they think it should be to be fair. I know those are scarce, just like eles.
Now for the spells, I can see mind flay refresh shadow word pain, and dplague afaik does a lot of dmg on cast so it wouldnt be good idea to make dp spam a viable burst. Maybe mind blast and mind flay if mind flay is the filler spell for spriest.
This is also for single target dmg, like ele goes oom just as fast on aoe fight with magma and fire nova and chain light being rly costy.
I will edit post for spriest reduction costs suggestion, pls poke remix in game and other active spriests of what they think it should be to be fair. I know those are scarce, just like eles.
Re: Elemental shaman
even if you lower the mana cost of DP, it will never be a burst spell on this server until we reach lvl 80 maybe. and not even then i guess. it still costs too much and spamming it (while it costs less) will even get you oom faster.
DP is really expensive and it has to be recast quite a few times on a long fight. same vor VT.
but yeah, maybe MB and MF is a good idea aswell.
Remix does not play atm due to server basically being dead. and so don't i , nor any1 else in my guild.
DP is really expensive and it has to be recast quite a few times on a long fight. same vor VT.
but yeah, maybe MB and MF is a good idea aswell.
Remix does not play atm due to server basically being dead. and so don't i , nor any1 else in my guild.
- Fitzpatrick
- Honorary Member
- Posts: 470
- Joined: 21 Jan 2016 19:34
Re: Elemental shaman
This doesn't contribute anything to the conversation. Can you please remove it?
Re: Elemental shaman
Fitzpatrick wrote: ↑07 Sep 2017 01:41This doesn't contribute anything to the conversation. Can you please remove it?
It does contribute to the conversation, because papastrumff asked me to talk to remix. And no, I cannot remove it.
- Fitzpatrick
- Honorary Member
- Posts: 470
- Joined: 21 Jan 2016 19:34
Re: Elemental shaman
I tried getting suited up in SWP/BT gear and seeing if it was any better. Even with near 100% uptime of Elemental focus I could only last ~3 minutes only using LB and Flame Shock refreshing. Replenishment and other raid buffs may stretch that out to 4 minutes, but that is still not enough for a raid boss on Primal. Papastrumpff's suggestion seems a good one. Some sustainability with no DPS increase. An AE burn will still OOM them, but lowering LB's mana cost will at least give a viable single target DPS option.
One worry however: How do the mana cost modifiers stack? Multiplicatively or additively? If you lower that mana cost by 50%, you take the talent for -10% mana cost, then you also get elemental focus -40% proc, will you have 0 mana cost LBs? If that is the case, I suggest making the suggestion for mana cost redux below that value so 0 mana cost LBs cannot be exploited. If the decreases are multiplicative instead, then ignore this.
One worry however: How do the mana cost modifiers stack? Multiplicatively or additively? If you lower that mana cost by 50%, you take the talent for -10% mana cost, then you also get elemental focus -40% proc, will you have 0 mana cost LBs? If that is the case, I suggest making the suggestion for mana cost redux below that value so 0 mana cost LBs cannot be exploited. If the decreases are multiplicative instead, then ignore this.
- papastrumff
- Former Staff
- Posts: 116
- Joined: 14 Oct 2016 11:15
Re: Elemental shaman
Nah it will cost 150 mana by default, 135 with talent and with clearcasting it will be 40% less so around 81 mana
Re: Elemental shaman
huge +1 to Ele Shamans and Spriests
Re: Elemental shaman
Reasonable ideas, from my point of view +1
There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.
~Niccolo Machiavelli
~Niccolo Machiavelli
Re: Elemental shaman
Accepted (50% LB cost reduction) Will go live with next update.
There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.
~Niccolo Machiavelli
~Niccolo Machiavelli
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