Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

User avatar
jetteroo
Posts: 88
Joined: 18 Feb 2017 05:57

Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#1 » Post by jetteroo » 16 Aug 2017 05:39

Is the healing nerf for druids of 15% to HT and Rejuv to the base healing or to the final output (after talents+Spellpower)?

Also i think while rejuv nerf is arguable, the nerf for HT seems somewhat too much considering that HT isnt used much anyway since its slow.

Just think that perhaps HT should be kept as is or nerfted to a smaller amount as HT isnt that great anyway due to lack of Nourish spell....

User avatar
Eronox
Honorary Member
Posts: 2325
Joined: 24 Apr 2016 11:03
Location: in ICC & Healing
Contact:

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#2 » Post by Eronox » 16 Aug 2017 08:50

It's the base manapool.
Thank you for the iniative of feedback, been really lacking lately so it got left undiscussed from player perspective.

Hopefully this gets continued
.

There's things that never will be right I know, and things need changin' everywhere you go.
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

- J.R Cash


User avatar
jetteroo
Posts: 88
Joined: 18 Feb 2017 05:57

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#3 » Post by jetteroo » 16 Aug 2017 12:20

Eronox so you mean the base mana cost increases by 15%?

Ok guess that's easier to implement.

If you look through the druid talents, many of the talents points refer to spells we do not have.

Tranquil spirit (has nourish)
Nature's bounty (has nourish)
Revitalise (has nourish)

I have to admit that i m not familiar with other healing classes like priests , but for paladins I do not think there are such "wasted " talents like druids.

And especially for healing touch, if you read all the Wotlk restore druid guides, it's been marked as a rather "useless" spell unless it is used together with nature swiftness.... So from a full wotlk viewpoint druids will be using other spells other than healing touch. ESP nourish. And higher ranks of lifebloom.

At the moment druids are in fact forced to use healing touch simply becos there are no other non HOTs (except maybe regrowth).

In fact I would argue that druids on primal wow are handicapped because the classes are not meant to be balanced per se at level 70, and the lack of certain spells which were available to druids in wotlk at lower levels but not available in primal wow.

User avatar
Eronox
Honorary Member
Posts: 2325
Joined: 24 Apr 2016 11:03
Location: in ICC & Healing
Contact:

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#4 » Post by Eronox » 16 Aug 2017 12:35

oh i'm sorry, no the druid Changes are heal output nerfed at the moment not mana

Anesthesia will adhere to the upcomings.
.

There's things that never will be right I know, and things need changin' everywhere you go.
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

- J.R Cash


User avatar
jetteroo
Posts: 88
Joined: 18 Feb 2017 05:57

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#5 » Post by jetteroo » 16 Aug 2017 15:16

Heal output before talents and buffs and bonuses or before?

User avatar
Anesthesia
Former Staff
Posts: 180
Joined: 04 Mar 2016 07:30

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#6 » Post by Anesthesia » 16 Aug 2017 16:10

I believe after everything, if the heal was 100, now it will be 85.

This nerf could be changed to increased mana cost if some issues appear.
No one can see what's in my pocket.

User avatar
flosr1
Donor
Posts: 162
Joined: 08 Mar 2016 18:51

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#7 » Post by flosr1 » 16 Aug 2017 21:33

i did not play my druid a lot in raids at lvl 70, because i changed my MS to feral. only one time in kara tho with no tailor gear, only other items from heroics that i was able to get. it seemed to be pretty easy and the feedback i get from other healers is, that resto druids are really strong. so it could be tested with this nerf. altho i am not really a big fan of nerfing the output, because this is something that a lot of people hated in the vanilla phase of this servers. resto druids seem to be able to keep up their mana far longer than other healers in 10m and 25m raids, so increasing the mana cost instead might have been a better idea. but that should be discussed by actual mainspec resto druid i guess. like agrodon for example? maybe you read this and can write your opinion on this.


another thing i wanted to add, altho i am not sure if you are ok with it in this thread, because it is about disc priest. from my own experience with my priest alt in heroics and karazhan and from what other people told me, it seems it is really hard to play disc priest atm. i am the kind of guy who thinks that viability of classes should not be measured on the dps or healing meter, so it is not about that. but it seems shields really absorb close to nothing. we are missing the talent that improves shields with SP, altho they still scale with it. it just seems not enough. could the absorb of shields be increased a bit? or maybe another rank being added? disc priests really don't have a lot of other options in heroics, their spells have much less output than holy priest. if whole grp takes dmg, they need to spam grp heal, wich costs a lot of mana, for tanks they need to spam flash heal, keep up renew, shield etc. which also doesn't heal a lot. it is pretty mana intensive and output is really low. but it is possible with some gear, but seems to be a lot weaker than holy priest, shaman or resto druid. also in raids, where shielding people would be a big advantage of disc priest, they just don't absorb enough. that is my opinion and i know that a lot of priests changed to holy because of those issues. when i still was in the tester forum, i read that all classes and specs should be balanced to be equally viable, so that people play them. so we dont have the situation like in vanilla phase that people did not want to play retri, shadowpriest, disc priest, ele/melee shaman etc. so now we have exactly that situation with disc priest. being limited to a "pain supression and power infusion bitch" is not really fun.

edit: also one more thing about resto druid: is swiftmend still double nerved? healing seems a bit low. if it is double nerved, it should be changed. it is already annoying enough that we don#t have the glyph to prevent the consumption

User avatar
Anesthesia
Former Staff
Posts: 180
Joined: 04 Mar 2016 07:30

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#8 » Post by Anesthesia » 16 Aug 2017 22:48

Discipline priest seems to be right next to a druid in 25 man raids if you include absorbs (and if only one disc is present), in 10 man raids disc is usually not as strong. If shield buff would be implemented maybe we would have to lower healing output and that could affect the holy spec as well and cause issues in 5 and 10 man instances. Bigger shield would also disturb fights where tank takes huge damage burst, like prince in karazhan, but Im not saying those fights are perfectly balanced atm.

Personally I am against of opening 70+ abilities, every class is missing something and such change will most likely have negative results, if it was just another rank being implemented, that could be done if really necessary.

I will agree with you, increasing mana cost seems as more effective way. Reducing the healing output could cause issues while in a 5 man group, and in 10 mans it could force you to keep 3 healers even when you are outgearing the content. Swiftmend is still double nerfed I believe, there was a small discussion about it and I guess conclusion was not to change it because current healing nerf is much lower than the one we had in Vanilla.

Thank you for your feedback, changes to druid heals will remain the same for at least a short while, in case of unwanted effects it could be changed to increased mana cost. For other classes/specs (if needed) we will try to find reasonable changes and present them as viable and diverse choices.
No one can see what's in my pocket.

User avatar
flosr1
Donor
Posts: 162
Joined: 08 Mar 2016 18:51

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#9 » Post by flosr1 » 16 Aug 2017 23:39

hm... don't get me wrong, i am really against changes if they are not totally neccesary. you probably remember how strong i was against feral druid buffs (even tho i play one atm), because i regard feral druid not really as pure dps class. but anyway, i think it was not the worst idea and it seems ok now.

so i would not recomend the disc priest issue if it was just for my personal advantage. also the disc spec of my priest is only the OS. but i got a lot of feedback from priests. holy priests agree its too weak. and people who played disc before changed to holy. i included the absorbs ofc. i am not saying it is super weak. but it could use some buff. maybe like a half shield rank. to explain it better. base abosrb value something in between current rank and next rank. the talent we are missing is kinda a key talent for the disc spec. i would not like implementing it, because its good the way it is atm with the talents available. but really something important is missing here for the disc spec shields.

about swiftmend. the problem i have with its's double nerv is, that i see no reasoning behind it. you cast and instant that consumes your already nerved hot. your hot (or that of another player is removed) so it needs to be recast. and then the instant heal gets nerved as well. i think that is kinda too much in my opinion. the instant heal doesn't really justify a double nervf.

User avatar
jetteroo
Posts: 88
Joined: 18 Feb 2017 05:57

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#10 » Post by jetteroo » 22 Sep 2017 07:19

So,been running Kara with a fellow shaman healer and paladin(retspec) healer last 2 days.

I have a rest spec Druid , 2/3 Kara gear now. Fellow healers lightly more geared but not by much.

Seems like I m doing less heals output (using rejuvenate and life bloom and occasionally HT) vs the shaman using chain healing and paladin doing flash of light.

They dun have mana issues as well. Only use max 1 innervate per fight max when we have 2 heals and none when 3 heals.

Guess my question is - do we really need to nerf output of Druids? Maybe we should consider doing cost nerf if we think Druids too op on mana?

Trying to understand rationale behind the nerf so that I can do more testing

User avatar
Flooded
Former Staff
Posts: 797
Joined: 23 Apr 2016 19:29

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#11 » Post by Flooded » 22 Sep 2017 07:55

Show me healing parses.

Chain healing is higher HPS because its an AoE Spell.

Prior to the healing nerf we saw parses of druids solo healing parts of Karazhan.

I haven't seen evidence of any other class coming close to that.

User avatar
jetteroo
Posts: 88
Joined: 18 Feb 2017 05:57

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#12 » Post by jetteroo » 22 Sep 2017 08:20

healing parses you mean recount data right?

If so let me go see if i have saved the data from the past 2 days. If not will have to be next week before i get the data.

just some background info - we were 2 healing basically for the 1st few bosses the shaman healing output was 2/3 of total raid heals - most of the encounters with mainly chain heals and some HW/LHW (except netherspite which requires lots of movement) - hes highly skilled as well for sure :P

User avatar
jetteroo
Posts: 88
Joined: 18 Feb 2017 05:57

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#13 » Post by jetteroo » 22 Sep 2017 09:32

deleted
Last edited by jetteroo on 25 Sep 2017 03:54, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jetteroo
Posts: 88
Joined: 18 Feb 2017 05:57

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#14 » Post by jetteroo » 25 Sep 2017 03:53

hi Flood, I have data for Doomwalker from sat 23 Sep. Kazzak not meaningful.

Please see parses. I have posted 3/6 of the healers armory data for reference. unfortunately the other 3 are in offspec gear, so not meaningful

From the encounter i would say comparing Lexyana, Artanis and Deim (paladin/shaman/druid) would be meaningful as they were the top healers with similar gear, and Skidda and Moonkinn died around 1 min before the end. Not sure about Tabirt

I will updated the file with full armoury details when i get it

http://www.mediafire.com/file/6onk4krce ... arses.xlsx

just some observations so far (i will need to post gear of the remaining healers to compare data more accurately)
1) holy paladin seems to be very strong at the moment with FOL - they can churn out healing output much higher than rest druid/rest shaman
2) Healing Touch was never a favourite of the rest druid, in WOTLK Nourish was used. As you can see from the parses, HT/Regrowth were not used, so nerfing HT is meaningless from my point of view
3) With druid healing nerfs they have now having lower output than other healing classes (except maybe holy priest)
4) I think Holy priest probably needs some kind of buff, they are just not v good at the moment to be honest. I have no data to prove my case except we dun really see them around... and i have zero clue on how priests work.

User avatar
agrodon
Tester
Posts: 49
Joined: 21 Jul 2015 20:33

Re: Healing Nerf for Druids coming up in August 2017

#15 » Post by agrodon » 25 Sep 2017 07:36

jetteroo wrote:
25 Sep 2017 03:53
2) As you can see from the parses, HT/Regrowth were not used, so nerfing HT is meaningless from my point of view
3) With druid healing nerfs they have now having lower output than other healing classes (except maybe holy priest)
Rejuvenation didn't actually get touched despite what's been mentioned in official announcements ('Rejuvenation - Nerfed by 15%'), healing touch did.
Since HT wasn't used and rejuvenation wasn't actually changed, there'd have been no difference before and after the patch.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests