[Accepted] Increasing Icecrown Citadel's Buff to 25%

[blagovest_tonev]

No.
Damage is not the issue, idiots not knowing tactics after the 100th time is and people who are just generally bad players.

As simple as that.

-1

[andriuspel]

i don't understand you all... There is offer (actually it shouldn't be an offer, it should be default in this server) which would make icc raiding a bit easer and might faster, at this point single icc raid sometimes could take like 4-5 hours with medium geared players (like t9, t10 first tier(251)).

Ok, tactics - i saw much bullshit about it in this discussion, well people who actually tries to read or watch them isn't all, there is thing called "PRACTISE". You're just bullying other unpracticed players cause they do mistakes, they prolly don't know everything what you know about specific encounter, specific npc and etc... There you can always filter players who don't shows motivation...

And at all, we currently speak just about 5% more, that isn't big change which would transform nongeared players as super beasts...

[godofwow]

Gigim here, my vote is -1.
Reason why: this can help to the server im agree whit increase dmg, raids be little quick, allow (weak players) to get more gear to can enter icc do better dmg etc, BUT:
in consecuation of what? dosent matter if ICC fixes is up or not, raids can still happend and hard bosses can still be killed, for the only problem we have right now (low population) + im thinking too for the random ppl (pug ppl) and if everything is easy to get, whats the point play hard for it? i mean they can join to raid whit shit dps, dosent know tactics, DIDNT learn most important thing (many of them, not talking for every1) ok, we will fix their dps but what about the rest? will change absolutly nothen, will still wipe even if their dps are better.
Ikd.. thats my view point i respect every vote of every1 same as i wait to my vote are understable too

[arnis5]

Gigim here, my vote is -1.
Reason why: this can help to the server im agree whit increase dmg, raids be little quick, allow (weak players) to get more gear to can enter icc do better dmg etc, BUT:
in consecuation of what? dosent matter if ICC fixes is up or not, raids can still happend and hard bosses can still be killed, for the only problem we have right now (low population) + im thinking too for the random ppl (pug ppl) and if everything is easy to get, whats the point play hard for it? i mean they can join to raid whit shit dps, dosent know tactics, DIDNT learn most important thing (many of them, not talking for every1) ok, we will fix their dps but what about the rest? will change absolutly nothen, will still wipe even if their dps are better.
Ikd.. thats my view point i respect every vote of every1 same as i wait to my vote are understable too

This 5% buff would help us in situations like when you steped on shadow trap week ago and flew away from platform yeah I know ironic right? Talking about people not knowing tactics and yet failing on same

[Nyeriah]

Yes: Rohit, arnis5, Nesingwary, Terrordynu, Gnurg, milanlord, devil5000, Drine, Regent, exchanger1, vladancar, Eronox, divide, Bloodshade, Enigma, Wilcox, Dymond, belendor, Skye, GuidoSalducci, tanjim1, gann, Relina, Gadoschi, Thexelez, kryptos, Fastor, Blacklustersoldier, taunka1, testeromir, Bigjeffrey, pendulaks, Xantha, Macqo, Ortaega, Etro, toamuka, sinasina, Amroq, smartos, Gadoschi, BozoBog, daxerious, Sandar, DuraS, MrDamato123, Sweetsong, Hagaron, Crown, ludivoje, andriuspel (51)

No: mcheka, Tenebro, Triblatri, iceshock, x00er00, benta, kermo14k, alexiepower, Errorista, strunfovi, Longi, Blackwyrm, Sagiri, Amoriann, Fjord, soultaker, ghuna, Evildead, Justicelight, baran15, benzviliran, Matsy, blagovest_tonev, godofwow (24)

@ Bangarang, I still haven't got the time to write you a reply but I haven't forgotten, or ignored it... I'll do once I'm able

[Rohit]

I really don't understand one thing. A lot of players who voted "no" don't even play here anymore. You guys have abandoned the server already (don't really give a f*ck about your reasons) and that is the standing truth. So why does it matter to you that the so called "noobs" or as I might put it the not so elite group who have leveled up and geared so far all by themselves, get their work cut out by a tiny bit? I really feel it should be 30% as we already have RS working in both the difficulties since long time now. That 5% isn't going to be earth shattering anyway but rather just a slight nudge for them to try the harder bosses like PP, sindy and eventually LK which they otherwise would give up on. Someday they might even be able to clear them all after some practice, determination and some dedication. Whats so wrong in that?

[iceshock]

@Nye, ty heh.

@Rohit, 5% won't make any difference towards sindy and pp, every raid that wipes on them bosses are due to tactic failures, so 5% won't make any difference what so ever. Not even having 30% would.

If nobody dies and tactics are done properly, both pp and sindra are dead with 3-5 mins till berserk.

5% extra would make bosses die about 20s faster, again that's only if tactics are done properly in the first place, it will just be like having 19 dps in a 25 man raid rather than the regular 18 dps in terms of numbers. This won't make a boss die if tactics aren't done correctly, and like I said if tactics are done correctly bosses die with mins to spare as it currently is

[vladancar]

Or simple reduce trash hps so we can clear faster. We lose more times on clearing mobs then fighting against bosses.

[iceshock]

That can be solved by less AFK'ing, ICC25HC can be cleared up to Lich King in 1 hour 20 mins with 0 afk's, and 0 wipes.

The major reason why trash takes so long is because a few people go afk, then people die and possibly wipe.

[Flooded]

I feel that the highest tier of endgame content should take 1 hour 30 minutes of raid time minimum. Any less is going to be trivial to most new guilds and players to the server regardless of current guild's gear levels.

[idk2014]

I AGREE WITH 25% RAID BUFF IN ICC GUYS AND U SHOULD DO IT TOO !!!!
OR REMOVE TRASH FROM ICC

[iceshock]

[adiba]

Voting +1.
I don't know if the people who are voting no do pugs or not or even with guilds that are 50% pug. Because the amount of time I've heard "DPS is too low" in a raid is too damn high. Yes, then we should get better at dpsing but we also need gear. Like Bangrang says it will kill 20s faster, 20s isn't really a big deal. But can it help with bosses like BQL? Because a lot of raids can't do that too because of low damage. For pugs the target is doing as many as possible. Not to do whole run, and I'm one of those players who do pugs more because inquisition raid timing is like at 1 am for me. For the sake of pugs, +1. Even though there aren't many pugs happening now after the fix, maybe at least we can do icc10hc with this buff (not bane run, just as many as possible). Because even icc10hc 4b is hard to do now.

[Nyeriah]

@ Bangarang

A total of 13 staff members voiced their opinion about this matter, 10 were favorable and 3 were against it. Even when discussing it among ourselves there were diverging opinions that eventually got later expressed in this thread. So, from the beginning, I already knew this would be a heated matter.

By observing the discussions, I could notice that people see this through several different ways and at some point it gets quite subjective to them. Some believe this will serve as a clutch to players who underperform, while others believe this may motivate people to keep trying. And then others also believe this won't change anything at all.

The discussions you see here in this thread are much of a reflection of what was said during our own discussions, the same arguments were brought up and in the end we came to the very same conclusions.

Now to more directly answer your question: what changes are expected out of this? For once, we acknowledge how difficult accomplishing things has become due to the several turning factors and events of late, it's what we can do to make things better as Staff members. As I said while posting as Skye, I have no doubt that we are facing a mentality issue and people would certainly be able to down content and do things as everybody else, but I don't believe we can afford the constant drawbacks at our current scenario.

So yes, from my point of view, even the slightest incentive right now would count. And I don't honestly believe this may change anything at all for what concerns people underperforming or failing tactics, but it may give an extra motivation, and undoubtedly more chances at accomplishing anything.

Some asked why 25% and not outright 30%. Quite simple, it's because my proposal attempts to reach a middle ground between those who are in favor of this and those who wish to enjoy the more challenging content. Once again reiterating, I know that this probably won't change much at all (unlike the general feeling some people try to express) and it's fully intended to be that way, we aren't going ease out content abruptly.

I am sorry if most of what I've written here sounds like "more of the same", but it's just that after a month of discussions and 3 page-long posts I kinda feel like I am drained out of arguments like everybody else, it doesn't feel like there's anything new to be brought up, and I am most definitely not trying to convince anyone to vote in favor or against this anymore. I just hope for them to do what they think best.

So yeah... I'm sorry...

As can be seen, we are just getting more and more of the same, always returning to the same arguments and there's no absolute perspective that any breaking new argument will be brought to this discussion... so we may as well round up the votes and lock it next week.

[mcheka]

This thread has gone on for quite awhile when the results are clear. While I'm slightly against it myself, the general opinion of the server is clear and the staff should make an official decision soon and implement it, if the decision is to increase the buff (which seems extremely likely).

The sooner we do it, the sooner we'll see its impact and evaluate whether or not to go for the same thing for 25 to 30%.