Reduce Dual Spec Cost To Be In Line With Vanilla Earnings.

[Keenapal]

Just so you know, I voted NO because it wasn't available during vanilla and that should make this a rare and tough feature to get. It should NOT be a commodity for everyone to easily achieve. While it is on a 3.3.5 server, we should even be lucky that dual spec is even available. I think this is the mentality that Prime and another game developer had and I fully support them.

I think Prime should data mine and see how many 60s have dual spec as opposed to those that don't have it. That way we can really see if it's a tough feat to accomplish or not.

You understand

Currently 51 out of 231 level 60s have Dual Spec, that's 22% while most of the level 60s only reached that level in the last 2 weeks. We have almost 2 years left before we reach TBC and then probably another 2 years for WotLK when Dual Spec actually became available on retail.

It's not about whether it is tough or not, it's about the valueof it.
If your £10 shop suddenly cost £80 tomorrow and your earnings were the same, you'd be pretty damn pissed off about it.

Just remove it from the game?

[Relevant]

Getting epic flying only helps me.

Getting dual spec helps everyone (assuming it adds more potential healers/tanks/whatever role is needed)

What if dual spec were free? Would that really have any negative impact on anything? Just the elitists that want to show off how much gold they've made would be affected, I guess.

No, I'm not suggesting dual spec should be free. I just don't agree with the argument "It wasn't in vanilla, so it should be hard to get"... why? Should RDF be hard to use, too?

Based on Zanmato's comment, I have even less of an opinion about this now. If gold comes easier than in vanilla, I think this is a moot point. As I've said before, I will not be investing time dedicated to farming for dual spec, but if I happen to end up with 1000 extra g, I'll probably pick it up.

[phobossion]

I don't think it should only cost puny 200 gold, but a slight price drop would sure be nice! It shouldn't cost less than 500g tho. Anyway, both sides have strong arguments and the poll seems to be quite balanced as well...

[.Zsombee]

It's not casual, it's still Blizzlike if you reduce it 800%. Right now it's actually vastly more punishing than even Vanilla Blizz was.

Vanilla players look for a challenge, and your 800% is great for that. Casuals can still ride their crappy 60% mount, but please let the ones who look for a challenge, enjoy the game.

[Keenapal]

I'm not talking about reducing the mount price.

Blizz charged 1k for that in Vanilla.

If they had released it in Wotlk at that exchange rate it would have been 8000gold, can you all acknowledge please that you understand this?

[ice4keep]

As I've said before, I will not be investing time dedicated to farming for dual spec, but if I happen to end up with 1000 extra g, I'll probably pick it up.

This is probably what i'll be doing too. If I happen to accumulate that amount of gold over the time period I'm playing, I'll get it. Because it is in fact a rare feature. I don't mind waiting to get dual spec than it handed out to me on a silver platter right when I hit 60. I'd rather earn it the hard way.

[Roel]

If gold comes easier than in vanilla, I think this is a moot point.

I have already explained that gold comes easier than in Vanilla. In Vanilla it required more work to get epic riding compared to what's now required to get both epic riding and dual spec. Nothing compares to how much farming was required in Vanilla. Essential things like leveling and gearing are already a lot easier so it's good to have optional things to work for. I am sure even the most casual players will be able to get dual spec if they are still playing here next year.

Also I don't think it's fair to compare it to WotLK like that because WotLK has a lot more gold sinks (Tunda Mammoth + Chopper). Taking everything into account you would have over 30K worth of gold sinks, let's say 32K. Roughly applying that 800% logic means we would need 4K worth of gold sinks for the same effect, epic riding and dual spec only make up for half of that (2K).

[Keenapal]

If gold comes easier than in vanilla, I think this is a moot point.

I have already explained that gold comes easier than in Vanilla. In Vanilla it required more work to get epic riding compared to what's now required to get both epic riding and dual spec. Nothing compares to how much farming was required in Vanilla. Essential things like leveling and gearing are already a lot easier so it's good to have optional things to work for. I am sure even the most casual players will be able to get dual spec if they are still playing here next year.

Also I don't think it's fair to compare it to WotLK like that because WotLK has a lot more gold sinks (Tunda Mammoth + Chopper). Taking everything into account you would have over 30K worth of gold sinks, let's say 32K. Roughly applying that 800% logic means we would need 4K worth of gold sinks for the same effect, epic riding and dual spec only make up for half of that (2K).

Vanity mounts are not gold sinks in the same way Prime and if you think it's unfair to compare in that way it is certianly unfair for you to compare at 20000gold mount to a 1000 or 8000g SERVICE that nearly everyone wants.

Not to mention you don't need the same effects, and how exactly is it easier, you all keep saying this but not one of you has bothered to explain why?

[Relevant]

WotLK has a lot more gold sinks (Tunda Mammoth + Chopper)

Yes, but these are vanity items that farmers can get to show off. Dual spec is a functional part of the success of the server. I think blizzard realized this in Cata when they made the costs practically free. They realized that there was no reason for it being difficult to attain.

With a low pop server, I think this is even more true. Multi-role classes are punished more by this than single role classes.

What does me not getting dual spec mean? I will not be doing much of any PvP. Maybe no one cares if I do PvP or not. Maybe it would matter much more if there is a shortage in BGs or arena.

If a paladin or druid doesn't want to farm for dual spec, they are locked into one role, making it harder to fill key spots in raids and 5-mans. This is a little less important with 40 man raids, I'd assume, but still could be an issue. I don't really know.

I think having more people having more ability to access more of the game is important.

On the flip side, I do like that this server is blizzlike. If it were pay-to-win, x8 xp, etc, I would probably not play on the server. So having challenges is appealing. It's just unfortunate if people are locked into one aspect of the game, even if that's how it was in vanilla.

[Trmpah]

If you find dual spec too expensive, respec the old fashion way. Just like you did in vanilla.

Dual spec is not needed - we did fine from 1.0 till 3.1 without it.

[Guest]

If you find dual spec too expensive, respec the old fashion way. Just like you did in vanilla.

Dual spec is not needed - we did fine from 1.0 till 3.1 without it.

Then you may as well get rid of it, this server should make up it's mind as to what it is trying to offer and post a page with a clear directive on the aims of the server so people can make an educated decision about what to expect.

I'm not leaving this server because Dual Spec is too expensive but I will not be buying it and as a result dungeons will go untanked and pvp bgs will go unqueued for as many people will do the same and be confined to one roll.

So basically, if you'd rather the server is active - reduce dual spec.

If you want to have a server where a bunch of WoW-Snobs can prance around the game thinking they are kings because they can afford to spend many hours of their day farming instead of looking after their families and living their lives then keep it as it is.

Anyway this is the last I will say on the matter. - A company adapts to the market, the market does not adapt to the company, this is why Blizzard was so successful in Cata (until the release of Dragon Soul).

I'm staying on the server and I want to remain here in peace, I'd just like to be able to read a multi-page manifesto of what the server is and what aspects of which xpac it is keeping and which it is rejecting.

[Relevant]

Dual spec is not needed - we did fine from 1.0 till 3.1 without it.

Why does this terrible argument keep coming up? There are some valid arguments that have been stated and are good points. Reiterating this is a little ridiculous.

Of course you were "just fine" without it in vanilla. No one is arguing that. We did just fine without RDF, too. The point is that we have access to the features of the wotlk client. That's what's so great about this server compared to others. If I wanted vanilla on a vanilla client with vanilla features, I'd go there. I'm here for a reason, and that's because there are features that are available that improve the gameplay.

[Trmpah]

If you find dual spec too expensive, respec the old fashion way. Just like you did in vanilla.

Dual spec is not needed - we did fine from 1.0 till 3.1 without it.

Then you may as well get rid of it, this server should make up it's mind as to what it is trying to offer and post a page with a clear directive on the aims of the server so people can make an educated decision about what to expect.

Why get rid of it, if everyone doesn't want to buy it anyways. Let it stay for those who find it important enough to farm for it.

I'm not leaving this server because Dual Spec is too expensive but I will not be buying it and as a result dungeons will go untanked and pvp bgs will go unqueued for as many people will do the same and be confined to one roll.

So basically, if you'd rather the server is active - reduce dual spec.

If you want to have a server where a bunch of WoW-Snobs can prance around the game thinking they are kings because they can afford to spend many hours of their day farming instead of looking after their families and living their lives then keep it as it is.

1-60 nets you in the area of 400-500g with regular mount and a single gathering profession. The remaining 500g shouldn't be that hard to get, even considering your life situation (I'm in it too).

I get it, dual spec is expensive. So is a Ferrari.
No matter what spec you have, you can easily farm Azeroth content (my lvl 60 healer is doing fine). Just like a regular car easily can get you from point A to point B.

It might go faster and smoother in a Ferrari, and you'll have all the nice stuff that your regular car sucks at, but that would cost you a fortune. Just like dual spec.

Because in all fairness, what is the point of the Lich King client if you are just going to Vanilla WoW it the entire way.

We are in Lich King. Where items drops so frequently that your bags get filled up very quickly, and you vendor it all for big cash, and, funnily enough, where dual spec costs 1000g.

Dual spec is not needed - we did fine from 1.0 till 3.1 without it.

Why does this terrible argument keep coming up? There are some valid arguments that have been stated and are good points. Reiterating this is a little ridiculous.

Of course you were "just fine" without it in vanilla. No one is arguing that. We did just fine without RDF, too. The point is that we have access to the features of the wotlk client. That's what's so great about this server compared to others. If I wanted vanilla on a vanilla client with vanilla features, I'd go there. I'm here for a reason, and that's because there are features that are available that improve the gameplay.

You still have access to dual spec. Everyone has. It may be pricey, but so are epic mounts.

[DGProbe99]

If gold comes easier than in vanilla, I think this is a moot point.

I have already explained that gold comes easier than in Vanilla. In Vanilla it required more work to get epic riding compared to what's now required to get both epic riding and dual spec. Nothing compares to how much farming was required in Vanilla. Essential things like leveling and gearing are already a lot easier so it's good to have optional things to work for. I am sure even the most casual players will be able to get dual spec if they are still playing here next year.

Also I don't think it's fair to compare it to WotLK like that because WotLK has a lot more gold sinks (Tunda Mammoth + Chopper). Taking everything into account you would have over 30K worth of gold sinks, let's say 32K. Roughly applying that 800% logic means we would need 4K worth of gold sinks for the same effect, epic riding and dual spec only make up for half of that (2K).

Vanity mounts are not gold sinks in the same way Prime and if you think it's unfair to compare in that way it is certianly unfair for you to compare at 20000gold mount to a 1000 or 8000g SERVICE that nearly everyone wants.

Not to mention you don't need the same effects, and how exactly is it easier, you all keep saying this but not one of you has bothered to explain why?

as to why it is now much easier to earn gold?
see Patch 1.10 notes That was when they added in exp from quests at cap to gold.

Also factor in bonus gold from the RDF tool as well. It might not be a lot, but it is still extra income for stuff people will already do.

[.ithril11]

I've at this point begun to ignore the whining from Keenapal because I know that they haven't hit 60, and I'll refrain from personal attacks and just break down what actually happens here on this server.

Prime has already mentioned MULTIPLE times that drop-rates are higher, with NO gathering professions I had about 600 gold at level 60 with my 60% riding purchased. 90% of that came from vendoring items I received while I was leveling up NOT quest gold. I think Keenapal is from a newer version of WoW where quests offer the most gold per hour rather than grinding... Which is fine! This server needs all types of players, however you need to respect the methods of old and embrace them on a server that is trying to emulate older times. Just grind it out, I managed to grind out my epic mount in ~5 hours today (though I ended up spending the 760g on enchants so I need to do it again). It all is dependent on luck and how hard you work at it.

Also I am responsible for that forum post number of 14 hours. However in the same post I put that it takes 10-14 hours, and you chose the higher total to support your cause rather than being honest and choosing the lower total. It NEVER took about 2 hours to get 1000 gold in WOTLK. If you think it did you have never touched WOTLK. 1000g took about a week of dailies to get, if you chose to farm you could get it in about 8-12 hours if your items sold on the AH appropriately. It's very similar timings to this server.