PvP dmg

[Shave]

The HP buff wasnt needed at all, tanks are unkillable now its not even fun.

[Shave]

Hand of Justice NEEDs a 2 min CD and reduced Honor Cost.This is the first thing that needs to be done.

[Amalizzy]

" To make experience more like vanilla. "
Whoever played vanilla for past 5 years like me will agree that in vanilla you were 2 shoted all the time, making tweaks will imbalance it even more, and have a bitter taste of "custom". Just leave it as it is, trust me it's fine, let people play more than 2 games before actually complaining.
Try having fun, making new setups, specs items, etc...

[.Cobo55]

If you wanna get two shoted go play 1.12.1 this is a 3.5.5a server its meant to fix things like this.

[bamfer123]

3.3.5 is tuned for 80, WOTLK nothing is meant to be balanced for 60. Them tweaking is trying to balance.

[.Sorrugis]

Whoever played vanilla for past 5 years like me will agree that in vanilla you were 2 shoted all the time, making tweaks will imbalance it even more, and have a bitter taste of "custom". Just leave it as it is, trust me it's fine, let people play more than 2 games before actually complaining.
Try having fun, making new setups, specs items, etc...

In all my years of playing Vanilla PvP I can definitely say the imbalance was never as extreme as it is right now. Sure you'd get one shot by the occasional glass cannon. Here we have raid boss warriors (and to a slightly lesser extent BM pets) running around killing people in a global cooldown with 0 downtime. With the hp buff it only made the gap even larger. Now instead of kiting 6k hp, its 8-9k and I'm oom before that happens most of the time.

Feel bad for any new casters looking to start, just roll a warrior if you are looking to have fun.

[Roel]

Technically the result of a damage/heal debuff is the same as a HP buff. The percentage makes sure that all classes are affected equally even though some classes have more HP or damage output than others. That doesn't change any class imbalance, warriors and hunters are also overpowered at level 80, that's how patch 3.3.5a is.

Anyway I see what you mean by the mana pool, we could look for a way to increase that by the same amount if others agree. Or if there are any other suggestion.

Moving this topic to the suggestions forum.

[Lanfeare]

Any percentage based scaling is going to have some smallish imbalance with certain things scaling better than others. I actually really like the idea of a hybrid buff/debuffs with like 20% reduced damage/healing and 25% increased HP/management. Since it's multi-aspected scaling, the things that scale well with 1 shouldn't scale as well with the other and vice versa.

[.Sorrugis]

Technically the result of a damage/heal debuff is the same as a HP buff. The percentage makes sure that all classes are affected equally even though some classes have more HP or damage output than others.

I'd have to respectfully disagree. Without an equal buff to damage absorbing abilities the end result is not the same. It leaves mages at a severe disadvantage since we don't have nearly as large an hp pool that warlocks have to work with nor the self heals that the hybrid casters have. I'd like to believe the damage output would make up for the shortcomings but I just don't see it yet.

That doesn't change any class imbalance, warriors and hunters are also overpowered at level 80, that's how patch 3.3.5a is.

Does this mean it's just something we're going to have to get used to? Being farmed by these two classes for 6 years sounds like something out of Dantes Inferno. ; )

[Roel]

Well, absorbs are closely linked to healing if you look at priest. Maybe they only need to be buffed for mages as they don't have heals and are somewhat of a weak PvP class if they lack a healer. I agree that it would be bad to have the same classes domination for the entire duration of the server but it's still early to discuss class balancing. Overall scaling to level 60 is priority and I don't think we have yet achieved the best way of doing this.

[Lanfeare]

The 20% damage/healing debuff plus 25% hp buff at the same time that I talked about would allow for proper scaling of absorbs because absorbs scale well with the debuffs and poorly with the buffs for a net neutral effect.

[.Sorrugis]

The 20% damage/healing debuff plus 25% hp buff at the same time that I talked about would allow for proper scaling of absorbs because absorbs scale well with the debuffs and poorly with the buffs for a net neutral effect.

Not an awful idea, just don't see the need for hybrids getting an added net buff. They have already received added spells, range or the ability to crit on things that couldn't in 1.1.12. Might be a good idea to play around with a +10% / -10% or +15% / -15% to start then fine tune it and see if warrior / BM hunter damage is still too high comparatively.

However I personally think the best option to level the playing field would be:

1) Take a look at specific classes (warrior / BM hunter) and tune classes / pets accordingly. I've seen the prot warrior out damage the "dps" classes in a number of instances, which to me was an early warning sign of possible imbalance issues end-game. I've heard of pets also doing the same in end-game settings. Although I have yet to see much data on this, only their damage in pvp settings.

2) Adjust mana pools how they were done with health pools. Many types of casters are unable to use certain abilities regularly due to the tiny mana pools of level 60 characters & their achievable gear combined with the changes to rank 1 spells costing max mana.

[Lanfeare]

It's far from just the hybrids getting buffs. Everybody has, and the change I suggested is more balanced for all classes than 50% bonus HP while still being basically of the same magnitude (25/16 is close enough to 1.5).

[Roel]

http://www.primalwow.org/forum/viewtopi ... 26#p172394

I also realise the current HP buff is not ideal so that will still see changes in the future.

[.Sorrugis]

Odd change.

Why not reduce the cost of the pvp trinket and put it on the same 2 min cooldown?