[Accepted] Zul'Gurub before Blackwing Lair?

[Roel]

1. It was meant as catch-up raid. If you have already farmed Blackwing Lair, there is less reason to do Zul'Gurub because the drops are simply a lot lower.
2. Keeping you occupied with Zul'Gurub will reduce the waiting time between Blackwing and Temple, less boredom.
3. After Blackwing Lair, there is already Ruins as catch-up raid.
4. Having a 20 man raid early on helps with population and time zones, it will be raided double as often.

There is no need for us to follow the exact release order and timing that Blizzard used. Especially during TBC we would rather release one raid at a time to give everything equal attention instead of releasing almost everything at day 1 like retail. We want to have a long lifetime for the server so players have something to come back to instead of rushing through all content fast.

Right now the plan is to release the Vanilla raids in this order Molten Core>Onyxia>Zul'Gurub>Blackwing>Ruins>Temple>Naxx with roughly 3 months between each of them.

I just want to see if players share the same opinion. If you strongly disagree with this, we can obviously change the plan as you are the ones playing on the server after all.

[Urible]

I think that the sequence is important, although the time between them is not. If you gear up in BWL gear, then there is little reason to do ZG, other than for the lol's (which I guess is a legitimate reason). Furthermore, I think that this server has a good ethos, and that is why a lot of people are here - sticking to the release order is an important part of that.

Having said that, I won't be upset by either decision.

[Renon]

Well Zul Gurub earlier is good idea indeed. Though I would say only if it will work in at least 85% like it should, unlike molten core which has lot's of bugs etc.
Also I still think it would be better to have at least 6 months between new releases of content or even have a "wait time" until at least most of the players will clear that content. I think it would let the new players experience what we still are experiencing than them come when we "cleared" the content - wait time will end when "depends on how many raiding guilds are there" f.e. if like now we have 2 raiding guilds Dawn and VK then when 60-70% of them will gear up in molten core new raid Onyxia/ZG would be released.

OR just abandon the idea of "removing debuff to make raid's easier" so new players would still need to rush through molten core etc. at the same difficulty which we did, making it progressive for them ALSO, not just us who played since day 1. If the buff is removed then they can just start with ZG/Onyxia tier 2 since molten core will be too easy and too boring for them to gear up on it.

[.conscience]

I think content accessibility should be paramount over sequence of release. This is a low-pop server, and though there seems to be a decent amount of player influx, and things are balanced differently with the WOTLK client than they were during the Classic days, but the fewer people needed to clear content, the better. Whether that manifests in the order of which raids are released or as a series of raid nerfs/buffs is negligible from my perspective. Maximizing player content options is what matters, perhaps in some manner of dynamic fashion that scales with raid team size.

That said, I imagine debugging a single raid encounter like Onyxia will consume far less resources than a big ol' zone with multiple encounters like Zul'Gurub, but it would be nice to have a smaller team raid option sooner than later.

[androx]

We have the opportunity that players that went through the content on retail did not have - we have the leverage see and choose what was great about Vanilla/TBC and what was not. And as long as the minor changes the staff does to the "old" world does not break the whole experience, but on the other hand - it improves it, I am all up for that. Blizzard did make mistakes along the way, they were not all-mighty deity. We have the opportunity to tweak and change some aspects of the game to improve it altogether.

TL;DR: Yes, go for it.

[.Sorrugis]

I'm completely fine with releasing ZG first. I'd love to experience a hardmode BWL but with some of the buffs to the instance bosses like Vael and Razorgore may not even be possible without the gear.

Plus it will give the theorycrafters a bit more time to understand the new mechanics and speculate on their new best in slot items before they are released.

When does that mean we'd see the 1.6 pvp gear released?

Also I still think it would be better to have at least 6 months between new releases of content or even have a "wait time" until at least most of the players will clear that content.

6 months is entirely too long, especially when a large chunk of players came here for the fast paced and initial super buffed content. Many of us are very familiar with the fights and want to steamroll as much content as fast as possible. If the difficulty is increased (which it's said it's supposed to be, I just haven't seen it) even better! We're up for the challenge and would love to see the fights we love made tougher during the initial progression period and then scaled back for the players who aren't as comfortable with the content. I'd prefer the 3 month tineline so as to not lose players due to attrition through boredom. Many "serious" players would fill their remaining time with PvP and with the lack of world PvP I could see that player who has been through all current content leaving or splitting their time elsewhere. I've seen you mention Prime that it's alright with you if players take a break but in the majority of instances I've seen the player leave and not return.

if like now we have 2 raiding guilds Dawn and VK...

That's funny.

[Lanfeare]

A 3 month release between Onyxia's Lair and either ZG or BWL will be entirely too long. I don't really care which of ZG or BWL comes out first, but having only MC as a longer raid for the next 5 months will cause fatigue in this server's population. It was even stated before that Onyxia would not count under the 3 month rule, and I think that's the better way to go about it. If Onyxia counts for the 3 month rule, then that's basically the equivalent of adding no new raid content for 6 straight months. They don't call it Molten Bore for nothing.

[Roel]

Yes I am thinking about releasing ZG earlier even though that means more bugs and less new content towards the end of the Vanilla phase. I guess people would rather raid Temple and Naxx for a longer period of time instead of MC, much like Vanilla servers that already have all raids opened.

[trapchristian]

Yes I am thinking about releasing ZG earlier even though that means more bugs and less new content towards the end of the Vanilla phase. I guess people would rather raid Temple and Naxx for a longer period of time instead of MC, much like Vanilla servers that already have all raids opened.

I think it is important to release stuff before everyone has full BiS from the previous tier which was the case on ED and Feenix Warsong which just made the content too easy and it hurt the population, so if it means more bugs I would think its still better for the server that way.

and if there will be naxx people wouldnt mind to do it for a longer period of time as you said yourself, so that means you have more time to work on BC content

[chasedavor]

No one will run Zg after they hit exalted and receive shoulder enchant.
BWL first, ZG after.
Keep it blizzlike please.

We don't want to be stuck in Molted Bore for eternity