[Accepted] Arena rewards revamp

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Roel
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[Accepted] Arena rewards revamp

#1 » Post by Roel » 06 Nov 2014 13:11

We have tried everything to stimulate 3v3 and 5v5 while sticking to blizzlike rules but it always turns out that our population is just too small to have a good competition of skill. Unlike at retail, 2v2 is actually more based on skill due to the high activity. The only thing where this becomes a problem is with the unique rewards (gear, titles, mount) that Blizzard appointed to those brackets, which we actually used to stimulate them.

I am just giving my own suggestion here, feel free to discuss and give your own suggestions. My approach is quite extreme but I have been thinking about this for the last weeks and just can't think of another approach to achieve what we need. I believe it's about time to admit that we can't get 3v3/5v5 populated and they should get marked as fun brackets by removing those unique rewards.

Great but what about all those people that already obtained them? It's not fair to remove them so I suggest moving all rewards to the 2v2 bracket or rather making them available for all brackets. This means it will actually be possible for some players to get the Gladiator title because 2v2 has more than 200 active teams and therefore a top 0,5%. Challenger/Rival can then still be given for 3v3/5v5 because they are relatively easy to get anyway and those brackets just don't have enough teams for the other titles according to the blizzlike rules (though sometimes 3v3 rank 1 had enough for Duelist). As for the Wrathful Gladiator title and mount, I suggest only rank 1 in 2v2 to get it.

Another problem is the Wrathful shoulders and tier 2 weapons which are the only rewards that can give players a real advantage. I suggest making them available through 2v2 by setting the shoulders at 2200 rating and the weapons at 2350, the tabard could also be set at 2350. From a technical perspective we don't have a lot of freedom with that, the next highest possible rating is 2050. Just like with any other arena gear, this would mean that players can still get them from 3v3/5v5 if they have the rating there but that's obviously harder.

It would also still be possible to get arena points from 3v3/5v5, usually if players have a higher rating in 2v2 they would get more points from that anyway.

Yes this would decrease 3v3/5v5 activity even more but I wouldn't call wintrading and steamrolling real activity in the first place, play for fun.

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Dropdead
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#2 » Post by Dropdead » 06 Nov 2014 13:20

Changing the 3v3 rewards to 2v2 bracket will be the biggest mistake and littery kill the other brackets , dont do this stupid mistake please .

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Ragnorak
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#3 » Post by Ragnorak » 06 Nov 2014 13:20

I don't think it's wise to jump to such a drastic solution so quickly. If we resorted to this then it's very possible we may never be able to populate the 3v3 and 5v5 brackets. The issue with last season is that high rated teams ended up farming fresh teams. I've suggested this many times already that we should change our current matchmaking script to make it so that instead of allowing the MMR difference to keep on growing the longer people are queued without end, we should cap it off at like around 300 MMR that way 1k rated teams wont be able to go up against fresh teams in the first place. This also makes it much more easier to catch people who are wintrading as it forces the wintraders to have to be within a certain MMR range of each other and we'll start to see 2 teams climbing up at the same time with matches played with each other only. We should also make a minimum MMR limit in order for the 3's and 5's brackets to be eligible for rewards. For example in order for 5s to give out rewards teams must be at least over 1600 - 1800 MMR. This will then make it even harder for win traders to get what they want since in order for them to reach that MMR the bracket needs to have a good population to it instead of just farming fresh teams.

I don't support moving the wrathful shoulder requirements to 2v2 as it is not a very blizzlike move and just because 2s is the most unbalanced bracket there is and it's basically signing the death certificate of the 3's and 5's bracket on TrueWoW for an indefinite period of time
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Justicelight
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#4 » Post by Justicelight » 06 Nov 2014 13:26

Was planning to make a suggestion about this ONLY in the case something like this would happen in 2s.

Here is mine,

Arena 2vs2 rewards:

Wrathful shoulders: 2650 rating in 2vs2.

PvP tier 2 weapons: 2800 rating in 2vs2.


And something off-topic, but still around same ideas which I think it will be needed if shoulders/t2 get rewarded from 2s:

* raise the arena rating requirement with 100/150 more rating requirement meaning:

WF head minimum rating requirement: 2050

Weapons Tier1: 1950

Librams/Idols/Totems(no clue): 1800

Chest: 1700

Hands: 1450

Belt/Feet wrathful: 1100 (this is for people to get starting faster)


Honour system will also need to be remade, if you do these changes, imo:

* raise the honour costs of offsets by 5k honour.


I wouldve asked for more rating in 2vs2, around 3000 rating requirement, since the que will be spammed a lot with these new changes, but seeing Roel saying 2200 for them, 3000 seems to far from his opinion.
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keez
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#5 » Post by keez » 06 Nov 2014 13:29

Roel wrote:I suggest making them available through 2v2 by setting the shoulders at 2200 rating and the weapons at 2350, the tabard could also be set at 2350.
How about making those 2500+ or 2400+?
2200 is relativly easy to obtain.

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Ragnorak
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#6 » Post by Ragnorak » 06 Nov 2014 13:30

This is going to have serious repercussions. We will eventually see the same issue that we did with the 3s and 5s brackets. We'll see these 4am gladiators who queue with their friends or make people make new 2s teams and tells them to keep queuing so they can farm them. You guys aren't tackling the underlying problem but just attacking the symptoms which is in no way going to cure these issues we currently face. Our matchmaking script is not optimal for a server our size and that is why it is getting so easily abused. People will find a way to abuse this in 2s especially now that we've emphasised the importance of 2s to such an intense level.
Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.

I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.

From this moment until the end of days I live and die - FOR THE HORDE!

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keez
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#7 » Post by keez » 06 Nov 2014 13:33

Ragnorak wrote:We'll see these 4am gladiators who queue with their friends or make people make new 2s teams and tells them to keep queuing so they can farm them.
That is not possible in 2s because you would have to wait 10 mins or more vs 0 rating team and you would get +1 rating.
In 3v3 wait time is like 2-3 mins and you get +5

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Ragnorak
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#8 » Post by Ragnorak » 06 Nov 2014 13:35

Oh i'm sure u'll find a way Keez, I believe in you
Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.

I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.

From this moment until the end of days I live and die - FOR THE HORDE!

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keez
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#9 » Post by keez » 06 Nov 2014 13:37

Ragnorak wrote:Oh i'm sure u'll find a way Keez, I believe in you
-.-
You dont even play arena, your knowledge of how the system works is very slim so i dont know why you are posting here.
For example when a team of 2500 rating plays vs 2000 rating team they get +2.
So how do you think playing vs new teams can get some1 rating?
If you dont know anything about the arena system dont bother with your posts.

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Dropdead
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#10 » Post by Dropdead » 06 Nov 2014 13:38

Lets talk some more facts I guess .

- First of all and most important we were blizzlike server right ? This is the most unblizzlike thing you can witness in pvp if this happens .
- Those changes will kill the 3v3 and 5v5 completly
- 2v2 is the most imbalanced bracket
- Achieving 2600 rate in 2v2 is WAY more easier than 3v3 2200 rate
- 2v2 is much easier to wintrade and pull schemes in to get your rating needed for rewards
- And last but not least it will give bad impression to newcomers , because I never saw such changes in a private server .

Before some1 point that I only say this thing because I was rank1 in 3s and whatsoever , I dont even care If i dont get rewarded the title and mount this season (which if some1 deserves its me and my team) I just dont want to see good server go extremely bad with those changes .

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Ragnorak
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#11 » Post by Ragnorak » 06 Nov 2014 13:41

Then explain how in one night, Hellraisers were able to make a team climb up by 700 points into rank 2 of the 5's bracket by going up against fresh teams. The rating difference was over 1000 and yet we were able to climb fast enough to the point where we knocked out Rohan's team from first...
Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.

I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.

From this moment until the end of days I live and die - FOR THE HORDE!

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Kindzadza
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#12 » Post by Kindzadza » 06 Nov 2014 13:43

3v3 and 5v5 are dead. This change will make it your way to shoulders a bit harder.. It is easier to get 2k in 3v3 with our current players pool who queue in these brackets when you have players queueing for "points".

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Dropdead
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#13 » Post by Dropdead » 06 Nov 2014 13:44

You cant compare 3v3 with 5v5 too yeah . But thing is no1 takes 5v5 seriously , It was always meant to be a fun bracket so to say while 3v3 is where true skill was showed and you can see that blizzard was always focusing on 3v3 and still is.

Edit : and NO 3v3 wasnt dead , but you guys will make it with this . I really hope u dont and regret it in the end , by loosing players and prestiege as the most blizzlike server . I'm done here .

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Ragnorak
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#14 » Post by Ragnorak » 06 Nov 2014 13:46

Kindzadza wrote:3v3 and 5v5 are dead. This change will make it your way to shoulders a bit harder.. It is easier to get 2k in 3v3 with our current players pool who queue in these brackets when you have players queueing for "points".
It's easier to get 2k because the players are abusing our MATCHMAKING SCRIPT... if we rewrote it to make it so that higher rated teams have no possibility of queuing up against fresh teams then they wont be able to farm points off like they did last season.
Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.

I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.

From this moment until the end of days I live and die - FOR THE HORDE!

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Kajel
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Re: Arena rewards revamp

#15 » Post by Kajel » 06 Nov 2014 13:50

I agree with Rag. Moving top tier pvp rewards won't solve any of the problems we have. And aren't you going against the motto of Truewow....'the most blizzlike server?'. I suggest capping the rating requirement for titles in 5s at 2000 since this bracket is easily the most abuse able one.

As for 3s....if you really want an out of the box idea, how about being able to obtain wrathful gear by having 3s rating instead of 2s? I'm sure the bracket will see a boost in queues and teams. And fix the current MMR script that is implemented atm as someone suggested.

Just my 2 cents.
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