Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

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Vasho
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Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#1 » Post by Vasho » 16 Dec 2012 07:43

As I can see the buff for the lower level bgs will not be removed soon(tm) might as well get it better balanced.

From my experience with it so far while leveling my priest is that the percentages seem to be too high. At level 20 I found myself in a bg against a level 29 and after dieing I had twice his health which was really off and I was steam rolling him and in the 30s while I'm still a low level I'm still outperforming more then I believe I should.

It would probably be best to scale back the buff by about 30% of what it currently is cause right now you can just twink out at level 20,30, or even 40 and just destroy the other team.
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Roel
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#2 » Post by Roel » 16 Dec 2012 12:23

Balance is never correct the first time, Blizzard has to go through a lot of patches to balance classes and then it's still isn't optimal. I also understand that the brackets are different. However if you got double his HP with the buff then I can conclude that you already had more HP than him before any buffing occured. Different classes have different HP but if you have blues and he has low greens then that also makes a huge difference. But I could take a look at this bracket.

As for twinking at 20, 30 or 40. After next crash that shouldn't be more viable than at 29, 39 or 49 because of different percentages compared to regular players, however that would also need tweaking...

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Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#3 » Post by Flexall » 16 Dec 2012 13:55

Yes....balance is never correct. So remove the buff all together.
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Rhaps

Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#4 » Post by Rhaps » 17 Dec 2012 03:03

I second Flex's suggestion.

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Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#5 » Post by Ragnorak » 17 Dec 2012 03:16

I 3rd
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#6 » Post by Nexxus » 17 Dec 2012 03:19

4th!!

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Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#7 » Post by Tuffeyy » 17 Dec 2012 06:26

I was just reading the other topic. And in honesty I didnt read every post because it was going to send me to the nut-house. But it feels that this buff isn't removing the natural imbalance of over-geared and high leveled players but simply moving the point in the bracket where the combination of gear+level+buff is at its highest from level 19 to whatever it will be now.

Everyone who used to know me, knows that I suck arse at any form of PvP and I don't play it at all so this isn't going to directly effect me.

The buff works on the assumption that everyone who joins a BG is a casual player and wants to just play a BG whether they win or lose. Some people like to play to win and only win, and will spend a lot of time creating the perfect character to play with in order to increase their chances of winning. (aka twinks)

People will still twink even with the buff once they work out the best class/level/item combination now the buff has been implemented. It just isnt going to be level 19 anymore so everyone who has an existing twink is annoyed.

Most twink gear is level 18, so I would assume that people will just lock the character at level 18, and then get the 10% stat buff which, when coupled with gear, is much better then levelling to level 19.

It might even be a level 10 or 12, I haven't actually sat down and worked out the gear/buff ratios and percentages. However just see below from what Ashiel said

"As an example, here are some statistics from my own characters with the hypothetical +% mods.
12th Level Paladin
Str 36 || +70% = 61
Agi 24 || +70% = 40
Sta 35 (33+2) || +70% = 59
Int 29 (28+1) || +70% = 49
Spi 31 || +70% = 52
HP 286 || +Increased Stamina = 526

16th Level Warrior
Str 49 (45+4) || +30% = 63
Agi 31 (31+1) || +30% = 40
Sta 44 (40+4) || +30% = 57
Int 22 || +30% = 28
Spi 27 || +30% = 35
Hp 411 || +Increased Stamina = 541

Level 19 Warrior
Str 56 (49+7) || +0%
Agi 33 || +0%
Sta 70 (44+26) || +0%
Int 23 || +0%
Spi 28 || +0%
Hp 703 || +0%

Comparing the 19th Level Warrior to the 12th Level Paladin
Hit Points: Warrior 703 || Paladin 526 (natural 286)
Str: Warrior 57 || Paladin 63 (natural 36)
Agi: Warrior 33 || Paladin 40 (natural 24)
Sta: Warrior 70 || Paladin 59 (natural 35)
Int: Warrior 23 || Paladin 49 (natural 29) (low stat for warriors)
Spi: Warrior 28 || Paladin 52 (natural 31) (low stat for warriors)"

Both characters have easily obtainable gear achieved by just playing the game normally, however because the buff is also applied to gear, the level 12 has more stats on everything but HP/stam

Now, consider that the level 12 was level 10, as most the gear is wearable at level 10. That may increase the difference even more. Again I haven't worked out the raw stats vs gear when calculating the buff cause I am too lazy.

TL;DR

The buff works if everyone just casually joins a BG or twice a week, and no one is too serious about who is going to win or lose, as everyone is forcefully balanced, which is what casual PvPers love. (Like me!)

The buff is more likely to move the twink level to a different level other than 19, as people will still try and twink to gain that advantage.
The only benefit of levelling if you plan to PvP mostly, is just to unlock skills, as the stat modifier is likely to even you out with everyone else if you are the one the high end of your bracket, or even make them more powerful. Whether you twink or not.
Exisitng twinks have had their over-whelming force completely nerf'd

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Vyrath
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#8 » Post by Vyrath » 17 Dec 2012 08:28

Please remove this buff. It is complete garbage. You're taking all the work people put into leveling and finding gear, training professions ect to be the best in their bracket and throwing it out the window.
Now you have x0 lvl characters who are twinks and doing more damage then upper level toons. Pvp isn't meant to be "fair" it's about skill and gear and level and if some people can't get a grasp on that then they shouldn't pvp right off the bat. I have been in 80's bgs and had directly been targetted by Roel several times as an "easy kill" because of lack of pvp gear. I knew the risks going in and yes i died. alot.
This cuddy huggy balancing bullshit needs to be removed. asap. Twinks being unblizzlike in the bg? howso? prove how a person shouldnt be able to according to the game mechanics be able to aquire the best gear and freeze exp and stomp some ass. I'd like to point out two things

1: this is a private wotlk server, we have very little for new content to be done. Raids can be fixed scripted better ect but there wont be "new" raids from cata ect.
2: You can only level so many 80's before getting tired of doing the same old raids over and over.

With that in mind, the twink community has grown, and it is part of our TrueWoW culture, not only as a point of pride for players to say "check out how badass i got this toon now" but simply relaxing.
Higher level bgs are complicated with all the differant stratagies and tactics, sometimes you wanna just kick some ass, take a flag and laugh when you've whooped the other faction so bad they stop queing for 30-45 minutes.

So the point is, in unbalancing pvp with this stat buff you're harming the twink community within truewow, and majorly screwing with battlegrounds for people who aren't twinks.
In world chat on horde side a lvl 58 was saying she lost 400 hp off her max hp. how is this fair?
please explain how it is blizzlike to modify stats to give an advantage to lower level characters?
I can tell you what will happen. The new twinking will be x0 lvl so they can abuse this "balance"
and it's already happening. i have seen it in the 70-79 bracket.
Roel the players have spoken on this topic and from what i've read and seen, most of us disagree with this "buff", please look and open your eyes and see again where this is causing strife in the server and make the right call. Stop trying to ban twinks and get rid of this buff.
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Leijon
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#9 » Post by Leijon » 18 Dec 2012 15:48

Now, I'm fully with the idea of a way to balance battlegrounds between the different levels, but this is just ridiculous :S. The hunter in this screenshot is level 70, and half of his chimera shot spell is enough to knock away 2k over my total HP. (Raw SS with no resize, because Imgur doesn't seem to have resizing options)

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Roel
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#10 » Post by Roel » 18 Dec 2012 15:52

As this is still getting tested, things can go wrong. I am completely changing it so only HP gets modified, let's see how that works out.

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Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#11 » Post by Arockalypse » 18 Dec 2012 15:54

Let's not forget that you're level 79, and the hunter is lvl 70
usually when it's 70 vs 79, you're supposed to miss most of the time
and the damage you do cannot be as high as 20k CRIT
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?
never a lvl 70 could ever crit me like that...
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#12 » Post by Intervention » 18 Dec 2012 15:56

That is quite the multiplier....
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Leijon
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#13 » Post by Leijon » 18 Dec 2012 15:58

Roel wrote:As this is still getting tested, things can go wrong. I am completely changing it so only HP gets modified, let's see how that works out.
Eh, I really wouldn't recommend that, Roel. More HP and and no damage means it'll take longer to kill someone, that can also lead to an imbalance, as plate classes have higher HP levels, and think of WSG, flag-capping would be silly.
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Velasong

Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#14 » Post by Velasong » 18 Dec 2012 16:11

Arockalypse wrote:Let's not forget that you're level 79, and the hunter is lvl 70
usually when it's 70 vs 79, you're supposed to miss most of the time
and the damage you do cannot be as high as 20k CRIT
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?
never a lvl 70 could ever crit me like that...
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i agree.what the fuck is that?
Diablos wrote:
Roel wrote:As this is still getting tested, things can go wrong. I am completely changing it so only HP gets modified, let's see how that works out.
Eh, I really wouldn't recommend that, Roel. More HP and and no damage means it'll take longer to kill someone, that can also lead to an imbalance, as plate classes have higher HP levels, and think of WSG, flag-capping would be silly.
good point.more health but same damage will just drag it out.in the case of plate classes,its even worse.
personally,an i get the feeling alot will agree based on the posts lately,just scrap this idea.try something else if you still want to attempt to find a balance.such as a twink from both factions must be in the queue before they can enter(not the best idea,but will help prevent one side having a twink majority adavatage without messing with stats).or if you really want this shit to work,try and figure out seperate bgs for twinks.we currently have dr j who's doing numerous fixes,he may have a better understanding of it(in theory).
we have the resources to remain blizzlike and keep things fair,we just have to use them.

tl/dr- wtf is that damage?more hp only is silly.lets find a better solution.

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Arockalypse
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Re: Battleground Rebalancing Needs Rebalancing

#15 » Post by Arockalypse » 18 Dec 2012 16:19

Vela, this is a 70 vs 70
check this one :
from a 70 against a 79
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