[PW] PvP Suggestions.

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Chatsnap
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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#31 » Post by Chatsnap » 21 Jun 2017 20:19

Antreon wrote:
21 Jun 2017 19:04

maybe the 2 years of dead pvp on primalwow ? arena is far less popular than bgs (and always been) and gating it that way is a sure way to keep pvp dead for another 2 years

that said, what i proposed wouldnt "gate" pvp gear through either actually, you would be able to get the gear doing either one, or both at once, you get the pvp gear faster through arena, you get shoulders through arena, you get weapons through arena, what the actual BLEEEP! isnt that BLEEEEEP enouth ?
Arenas on PW has been dead because vanilla arenas are not interesting, the population has been low and rewards in general has been bad compared to the rewards in TBC. You can still buy pvp gear for honor now, just a lower tier. Keep it that way.

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skyx
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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#32 » Post by skyx » 21 Jun 2017 21:20

Chatsnap wrote:
21 Jun 2017 20:19

rewards in general has been bad compared to the rewards in TBC.

Exactly, people on PW probably played arena PvP for rewards and not for the thrill of arena PvP.

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And for the love of god, please none of the BS like this again.

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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#33 » Post by Antreon » 22 Jun 2017 07:59

Chatsnap wrote:
21 Jun 2017 20:19
Antreon wrote:
21 Jun 2017 19:04

maybe the 2 years of dead pvp on primalwow ? arena is far less popular than bgs (and always been) and gating it that way is a sure way to keep pvp dead for another 2 years

that said, what i proposed wouldnt "gate" pvp gear through either actually, you would be able to get the gear doing either one, or both at once, you get the pvp gear faster through arena, you get shoulders through arena, you get weapons through arena, what the actual BLEEEP! isnt that BLEEEEEP enouth ?
Arenas on PW has been dead because vanilla arenas are not interesting, the population has been low and rewards in general has been bad compared to the rewards in TBC. You can still buy pvp gear for honor now, just a lower tier. Keep it that way.

yea that's definetely the reason, arenas just werent intresting XD

bullshit, population was high at start and pvp gear was awsome, the reward was there yet nobody (except a few masochists) bothered doing arenas anyway, and why would they ? when they can only play a few hours a week (raid times) and get even better gear, oh but gearing through pvp cant be just as easy now can it ?

btw you can buy a weapon for 15-20 gold from AH that is better than the honor pvp weapon lmao, yeah nobody is going to pvp for it or waste a single honor point on that gear

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Chatsnap
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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#34 » Post by Chatsnap » 22 Jun 2017 20:32

Antreon wrote:
22 Jun 2017 07:59
yea that's definetely the reason, arenas just werent intresting XD

bullshit, population was high at start and pvp gear was awsome, the reward was there yet nobody (except a few masochists) bothered doing arenas anyway, and why would they ? when they can only play a few hours a week (raid times) and get even better gear, oh but gearing through pvp cant be just as easy now can it ?

btw you can buy a weapon for 15-20 gold from AH that is better than the honor pvp weapon lmao, yeah nobody is going to pvp for it or waste a single honor point on that gear
Population on PW struggled to hit 150 online players during peak hours until late 2016/early 2017. WIth the exception of the release of the server, it is during the last few months, or even weeks, the population actually has been decent. That alone explains why arenas have been inactive. No server with 150 online players has, if not good and competitive, an active arena environment.

And yes. Vanilla arenas are not interesting or enjoyable in any way for any player. The lack of resilience gear reduces the amount of viable comps, and 2s is imbalanced already with resilience gear. By looking at the R1 team last season, you can see they had to wait 5 minutes between most matches due to mmr/rating difference, and then wait another minute to prepare after the queue popped, just to play a match that usually didn't last more than 30 seconds. The combat itself probably lasted 15 seconds or so.

And my last argument you explained yourself. Why queue arena for gear during vanilla, when raids bosses drop even better gear? The only rewards from the Vanilla arenas were some duelist/rival/challenger title. But they are not unique, the gladiator titles and mounts from each season are. Add decent gear rewards as well, and even the general player has a reason to do arena.

So, if there are not enough teams because the population is low, the arena games are shit and raids provide better rewards, why should anyone bother to queue for arena?

Arenas have always required more skills and coordination than BGs do. Arenas are competitive (at least they should be), while BGs is a "fun" aspect of the game. The most skilled/dedicated players should earn the rewards first, the same way it is in raiding. Farming honor/HKs does not require any skill. That's why arenas should be more rewarding. If you want the gladiator gear, but you're not skilled enough to reach the required rating in arena, you have to practice. If you want the gladiator gear, but don't want to do arenas at all, you have to wait for the next season when the gear is available for honor. Simple.

This whole topic was made to come up with suggestions to promote PvP. Your suggestion only promotes BGs, and is basically killing arenas as well. There are several other ways to promote BGs, like adding vendors that sell gems, arena gear from previous season as a catchup mechanic for new players (in later seasons of course, the blue pvp gear will have to do for now), or adding a small arena point reward to the BG dailies (similar to the RBG reward in Wrath).

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Re: PW currently needs incentives for PvP activity

#35 » Post by Antreon » 23 Jun 2017 01:36

Chatsnap wrote:
22 Jun 2017 20:32
Antreon wrote:
22 Jun 2017 07:59
yea that's definetely the reason, arenas just werent intresting XD

bullshit, population was high at start and pvp gear was awsome, the reward was there yet nobody (except a few masochists) bothered doing arenas anyway, and why would they ? when they can only play a few hours a week (raid times) and get even better gear, oh but gearing through pvp cant be just as easy now can it ?

btw you can buy a weapon for 15-20 gold from AH that is better than the honor pvp weapon lmao, yeah nobody is going to pvp for it or waste a single honor point on that gear
Population on PW struggled to hit 150 online players during peak hours until late 2016/early 2017. WIth the exception of the release of the server, it is during the last few months, or even weeks, the population actually has been decent. That alone explains why arenas have been inactive. No server with 150 online players has, if not good and competitive, an active arena environment.

And yes. Vanilla arenas are not interesting or enjoyable in any way for any player. The lack of resilience gear reduces the amount of viable comps, and 2s is imbalanced already with resilience gear. By looking at the R1 team last season, you can see they had to wait 5 minutes between most matches due to mmr/rating difference, and then wait another minute to prepare after the queue popped, just to play a match that usually didn't last more than 30 seconds. The combat itself probably lasted 15 seconds or so.

And my last argument you explained yourself. Why queue arena for gear during vanilla, when raids bosses drop even better gear? The only rewards from the Vanilla arenas were some duelist/rival/challenger title. But they are not unique, the gladiator titles and mounts from each season are. Add decent gear rewards as well, and even the general player has a reason to do arena.

So, if there are not enough teams because the population is low, the arena games are shit and raids provide better rewards, why should anyone bother to queue for arena?

Arenas have always required more skills and coordination than BGs do. Arenas are competitive (at least they should be), while BGs is a "fun" aspect of the game. The most skilled/dedicated players should earn the rewards first, the same way it is in raiding. Farming honor/HKs does not require any skill. That's why arenas should be more rewarding. If you want the gladiator gear, but you're not skilled enough to reach the required rating in arena, you have to practice. If you want the gladiator gear, but don't want to do arenas at all, you have to wait for the next season when the gear is available for honor. Simple.

This whole topic was made to come up with suggestions to promote PvP. Your suggestion only promotes BGs, and is basically killing arenas as well. There are several other ways to promote BGs, like adding vendors that sell gems, arena gear from previous season as a catchup mechanic for new players (in later seasons of course, the blue pvp gear will have to do for now), or adding a small arena point reward to the BG dailies (similar to the RBG reward in Wrath).

for the last time, pvp died because the "rewards" were not worth the effort, not because there wasnt population, the population remained high for a few months after release, it's when it was clear they arent going to do anything about it that most ppl started leaving in droves


well guess what, tbc pvp is going to be just about the same, tried doing any bg since launch ? i did 1 wsg xD, we were running through the center when the guy infront of me gets repentanced than 1 shoted with 1 judgement, presumably it was a crit judgement and a melee crit, even if resilience was to reduce that dmg in half it would still be ridiculous, the point is that resil is going to do little, resil is not going to somehow fix everything wrong with pvp, you're in for a big disappointment if you think that


on PW arenas rewarded epic gear too in vanilla not just arena titles


it's not fair to compare random pvp with organized pvp
if it's premade vs premade i'd argue bgs do require more coordination, you have much bigger groups of ppl and you have objectives, overall there are much more variables in bgs, however blizz decided to gate epic pvp gear through arena only so obv the skilled pvpers flocked there


but arenas ARE more rewarding with my suggestion silly, with my system you get gear way faster through arena and several pieces are only obtainable through arena, and now you say i only promote bgs ? and since i only promote bgs that is somehow killings bgs ? and arenas aswell ? http://i.imgur.com/gTOJH0E.jpg


at this point i just wanna know what staff has in mind and what system are they going to use cause i am tired reapeating things again and again

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Anesthesia
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[PW] PvP Suggestions.

#36 » Post by Anesthesia » 29 Oct 2017 20:13

Hello, in desire to bring more attention to PvP related discussions, I will try to sum few (existing) suggestions in this post, and ask for your opinion. Before you reply, please keep in mind that this thread is not supposed to turn into one of those longer discussions (even tho it could), but instead we should try to gather as much feedback as we can. Please share your opinion on the following subjects and extend it with your own suggestions.

1. Reduced mana costs in PvP environments by 25%
2. Increased honor gain from kills (up to 200%)
3. Increased honor gain from Victories in Battlegrounds (up to 150%)
4. Reduced Arena Team Rating requirement from items.
5. Arena Team rating increased from 0 to ( ? ) at the creation of the team.

> 25% damage reduction was already implemented, you can continue contributing to the original post.
> If you think there is a need for class specific tuning (THIS SHOULD BE MINIMAL) please share your ideas and all of the related information.


Sources / Open Discussions:
Fight duration in PvP - viewtopic.php?f=23&t=38390&hilit=pvp
PvP on Primal - viewtopic.php?f=117&t=38356
PVP - viewtopic.php?f=23&t=38394&hilit=pvp
25% damage reduction - viewtopic.php?f=16&t=38127&hilit=pvp&start=30
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Re: [PW] PvP Suggestions.

#37 » Post by majstorfanta » 29 Oct 2017 21:01

1. + (The reason described in topic "Fight duration in pvp")
2. -
3. + (might make players to more play for the objective and hopefully there will be less meaningless mid fights which is also the reason why 2. is - )
4. - (it feels low enough and reachable at 1800)
5. +/- (not that important, maybe make it up to 1k since that is how much personal rating you get for any team you join above 1k)
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Dunkelstein
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Re: [PW] PvP Suggestions.

#38 » Post by Dunkelstein » 30 Oct 2017 03:16

1.)If you don't oom priests, they are hands down unbeatable. There are more problems with balancing, like plate wearers benefitting way too much from the damage nerf (deserves its own post imo, but it's hard to find people with input who know their stuff and play enough)
2.)With set items being available for gold at faction vendors this is not needed anymore. A bit of grind for the epic offset pieces does make them feel epic.
3.)This would just make losers quit even harder.
4.)1850 rating is already insanely low for weapons. You don't really lose any rating until you hit 1500, and to 1850 you'd only need like 20 wins against teams of the same MMR. Keep in mind that our 3.3.5-ish arena rating system works differently than TBC.
5.)-1 see 4.
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Re: [PW] PvP Suggestions.

#39 » Post by natnat123 » 30 Oct 2017 03:37

1. Reduced mana costs in PvP environments by 25% - No idea, but it seems fine to me.

2. Increased honor gain from kills (up to 200%) - this would be cool, but buffing the gain too much could end up reducing pvp due to people getting items quick and then stopping or pvping less after that.

3. Increased honor gain from Victories in Battlegrounds (up to 150%) - same as above.

4. Reduced Arena Team Rating requirement from items. - good idea.

5. Arena Team rating increased from 0 to ( ? ) at the creation of the team. - also good idea but could end up being too much if combined with the above.

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Re: [PW] PvP Suggestions.

#40 » Post by Dreadnought101 » 30 Oct 2017 21:47

1. Dont reduce mana costs, casters and healers shred in arenas really quickly already
2 and 3. Reducing the honor requirements for gear seems fine enough, and increasing honor gained from victories makes losing even worse, do you know how hard it is to keep people queueing when they loose despite the fact that the system could randomly put them on a winning team?
4. Its fine, though very few teams are above 1500 so reducing arena points costs again would help teams get their gear since they are only getting 268 a week.
5. It used to be 1500 in burning crusade, I wonder why they removed it, I personally like building up to it, but so many people are changing teams around and not reaching it, it may be necessary. Though many will quickly reset their team when they drop below 1500.
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Dunkelstein
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Re: [PW] PvP Suggestions.

#41 » Post by Dunkelstein » 31 Oct 2017 01:01

Don't reduce the rating requirement even more... in order to get pvp weapons you should have to play a ton and have a good win ratio on top of that. I understand that it's supposed to make up for the lack in PvP activity, but this would just make the entire pvp scene a laughing stock (especially for people who are coming from other servers).

The reason it's so hard to climb is the lack of activity. Lowering the bar will not increase activity, if at all only temporarily until people get their free gear.
Don't mistake the symptom for the cause. You can't just turn them around and expect it to work.

Offtopic:
I believe that what we need to work on more is balancing. Look at the influx of players who came in after the damage nerf. Soo many people came to try it out, this shows that people in general are interested in PvP. Nobody said it's perfect, but many specs (especially healers, which were always lacking in this small pvp community) are more viable now.
IMO there's still not enough PvP going on in general to make direct balancing conclusions.

One staff member who knows enough about PvP should round up the most active players, ask them directly for input for different specs/classes and find some middle ground.
For example I know everything there is to know about hunters, for every spec, expansion and patch up to MoP. When it comes to other classes; not so much.
I know how rogues can hurt me and interact directly with me as a hunter, same for priests or any other class. But rogues vs priest? I can take educated guesses but nothing as direct as rogue or priest players could tell you, especially in this special, new, quirky primal meta.
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Vaen
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Re: [PW] PvP Suggestions.

#42 » Post by Vaen » 31 Oct 2017 01:45

1. Definitely feel that mana costs should be reduced. Many classes like priests and even mages are having mana problems due to some spells costing up to 10% of their mana pool.

2. Don't see a reason for this, I believe #3 is a better suggestion.

3. Would be a good incentive to queue for more BGs

4. My experience from truewow is that reducing rating requirements can never be a bad thing. At the moment there are like less than 5 teams have access to most of the pvp gear there is available. I don't believe the requirements are too high at the moment, but they could be lowered to increase arena activity. This should of course be a well-documented change that people can quickly learn about.

5. See above.
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