Killing Machine PPM

#1 » Post by **Kajel** » 26 Dec 2013 01:49

First off Merry Christmas and its saddening to be doing this on Christmas day but what the hell. Now for a long time I've been seeing firsthand that Killing Machine, procs a little too often. So I talked to Slar in dala today and told him the problem I had. Now I had a few things wrong but a couple things right as well. So I told him the ppm on a two hander is supposed to be 5ppm (refer to wowwiki link) and he agreed with me. But upon further testing I came to the conclusion that the amount of times it procs is a bit too much, which would be the same if you were dual wielding as well. So with Slar's instruction of doing a dummy fight of 5mins, I came to that conclusion.

Now to start things off, let me quote from wowwiki how its supposed to work since 3.0.8: http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title= ... id=2249888. The site states that the ppm when wielding a two hander is 5ppm and when dual wielding its 10-15ppm. So I decided to test this for myself and see if my suspicions were right.

Firstoff, I used an addon called Proculas to check how many times KM procc'd. I used Oxheart with a weapon speed of 3.5 and I am specced for Icy Talons and Imp Icy Talons and with gear i have ~7% haste rating.
I started off in Blood Pres and I only used Icy Touch to refresh Icy Talons at 1s of the aura left.

http://imageshack.us/a/img819/673/ntto.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img38/6351/zen0.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img194/8125/2sqn.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img841/8726/2tma.jpg

The last image shows the ppm after 5mins for KM was 13.92ppm, a far cry from 5ppm. Here is a link of Ghostcrawler also stating how the ppm should work: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1076 ... cent-proc/ So my question is how come no one ever noticed this? By this logic the ppm for dual wielding will also be off but I'll be glad to test it if you guys look into it. Also, even with 3-4/5 points in Killing Machine, it still procs as much as if it were 5/5. I dont know if anyone has noticed that last part as yet but I tested it with a friend but I dont have screens for that, but if requested I will retest it again.

To end things off I'm just curious as to what action GM's will take toward this. It makes a *huge* difference in pve AND pvp as nowadays I am seeing a lot of dks rolling frost in pvp. Unfair much. Feel free to call me out on any bullcrap I might have said.

#2 » Post by **Relina** » 26 Dec 2013 02:30

Off Topic: hmm interesting how you did n't notice the other bug in PPM being shown by your addon ->http://imageshack.us/a/img841/8726/2tma.jpg that the PPM of Rune of Fallen Crusader is lower than then stated 2 PPM for it, & is only 1.14 PPM

armory link to OP's dk taken down per his sincere request

#3 » Post by **Kajel** » 26 Dec 2013 02:51

Why thank you for pointing that out and the armory too link Peace =.=...and I now saw I forgot to blackout part xD
I just dont wanna be found.

#4 » Post by **Relina** » 26 Dec 2013 03:05

why hide lol be proud & show off ur toons

.

btw if ur gonna do a PPM test, 5 mins is too short to account for rng.

#5 » Post by **Kajel** » 26 Dec 2013 03:14

Well Slar said do a 5min test so thats the base time I used. I can go higher if its necessary. Still, its clear to see that the PPM is bugged to an extent. The difference is nearly ~9PPM man rng alone cant account for so much. :/

#6 » Post by **jastericiak** » 26 Dec 2013 12:17

You are my hero! Not everyone has guts to post some positive bug of his class. May the more ppl follow your example

.

Website · #7 » Post by **Boxis** » 26 Dec 2013 12:29

Having like 15 procs per min on my dk(2x one hand),its bugged for sure lol but i dont even care,frost strike spam alone with blood presence is a joke.

#8 » Post by **Folkk** » 26 Dec 2013 12:56

Kajel wrote:Why thank you for pointing that out and the armory too link Peace =.=...and I now saw I forgot to blackout part xD
I just dont wanna be found.

Off topic(sorry):Who wants to find you will do so in 5 mins tops. That is if he ignores the fact that your name is displayed like 20 times in those ss's

#9 » Post by **Myaoming** » 26 Dec 2013 13:27

Slar confirms, obviously

#10 » Post by **Kengur** » 26 Dec 2013 19:03

As i know it should proc 5times per minut on rank 5, and its much more on server, but ppl sayed its not bugged, so i decided to not report it.

If it should proc 5times per minut -> 12sec per proc:

2H weapon with 3.6speed and 20+20+5% haste=45%haste -> 1.98speed -> 1.98sec per hit
2x1H weapon with 2.6speed and 45% haste -> 2x 1.43speed -> 0.715sec per hit

If you take:
SpeedFactor=2.00(Same as unarmed speed)
12sec/SpeedFactor=6melee hits

6*1.98=11.88sec per proc
60/11.88=5.05procs per minute with 2H weapon

6*0.715=4.29sec per proc
60/4.29=13.98procs per minute with 2x1H weapon

If you take:
SpeedFactor=3.00
12sec/SpeedFactor=4melee hits

4*1.98=7.92sec per proc
60/7.92sec=7.57procs per minute with 2H weapon

4*0.715=2.86sec per proc
60/2.86=20.98procs per minute with 2x1H weapon

this calculation is only if you dont miss with weapons

#11 » Post by **Myaoming** » 26 Dec 2013 19:45

What is that? Keep in mind that Killing Machine doesn't have any internal cooldown... So when you wanna talk about "PPM", it will be an average value, which is why I asked him to do a 5 mins test.
What must be fixed here is simply the proc chance.

#12 » Post by **Kengur** » 26 Dec 2013 20:35

It is proc chance calculated...

If it should proc on every 4th melee hit -> 25%chance on melee hit
If it should proc on every 6th melee hit -> 16.67%chance on melee hit

Mby you should learn some math

#13 » Post by **Kengur** » 26 Dec 2013 20:42

As i see its simple math like 4,5 or 6% chance per one talent point -> 5/5 talent points spent gives 20,25 or 30%chance to proc per hit

#14 » Post by **Myaoming** » 26 Dec 2013 21:10

Kengur wrote:Mby you should learn some math

Funny.

Now what's not funny is the fact you took what's quoted below as a hypothesis, which is not enough.

Kengur wrote:it should proc 5times per minut on rank 5

I'm telling you, it has no Internal Cooldown, which means, when people said it has 5 PPM, they actually meant: approximately 5 PPM. it's an average value that was concluded after doing many tests (such as the test the OP did, but for a longer time for more precision), because KM has a proc chance. Also that average value was only for Two-Handed.
With that said, you can even suppose it has 1% proc chance on 5/5. It can still proc on every single melee hit you have made in one minute, because it depends on your luck, therefore, I call your calculations useless.

Just mentioning a PPM and saying it's for "DW" or for "Two-Handed" is not enough. It's better if they had actually mentioned the weapon speed. You need this info to dig an approximate proc chance.

#15 » Post by **Kengur** » 26 Dec 2013 22:57

This proofs you dont know math and dont know what you talking about. If it was tested and it's aprox 5times per minute on rank 5, you can calculate it as if it was 5times per minute and calculate the chance like i did. You can make calculation when it will be exactly 5times proc per minute.
Most dks have 2H weapon with 3.6 or 3.7speed, and 1H weapon with 2.6speed.
I readed a lot on forums, sites, wowiki, wowhead about abilitys and spells and i know how it should work.

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