Hacking in Arena

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tudorhd1
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#16 » Post by tudorhd1 » 01 Apr 2021 20:14

I really hope you get your pc back, and come with some real arguments.

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Boxis
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#17 » Post by Boxis » 01 Apr 2021 21:30

Here we go again I guess,

I'll try to remain as objective as possible in order to be respectful to all involved parties, even though it may be hard to believe.

First and foremost, just to be clear, if there is a decisive proof that some kind of hack or script or what is being involved then the given player obviously must be punished.

However, what I see from the video are 2 random SR right on time and supposedly used thunderclap with the same gcd as mortal strike.

About that thunderclap, well its not thunderclap but my Hammer of Wrath so I am not sure if this is a joke or not, since you see it flying from the Paladin. Therefore all accusations of these people about GCD hack being used in this example are negated. Anyway, I have recorded this same game from palas PoV with combat log, so ye.

On top of that I have like 7 other games, 3 of which are against Cachas disc mage, I was recording them and later checked obviously, since the same people who are reporting here whisped me later as well.

So, if you wanna see how many times I am dispelling polymorphs and how many times Theritin is abusing disarm into shield wall after he realized it actually removes it, I can eventually upload all the games even though my net achieves the speed of a rotten potato so it would take a while.

What is in my opinion the actual issue here:
About that spell reflect, as I said many different times already and then just gave up on it - the newly added spell delay which was recently implemented created more problems than it brought benefits in pvp. Some spells are simply much easier to pull off to the extreme that they would be otherwise impossible especially, if the opponent has higher latency.

Examples of some current issues:
- you can spell reflect without enemies even seeing reflect debuff on you (example 1+2, happens often if reflected on time)
- you can use defensive spells which remove cc at the end off opponents cc spell (example of using divine sac right when you are cced, I have it recorded, another example is actually in that vid, if you pause when the 2nd poly cast was finished, the war actually got polied for split second and then it got reflected : latency + delay issue)
- extreme situation is that you can actually dispel cc from youself, happened to me few times in BGs that I dispelled fear/trap from myself (pal) which could immediately be considered as hacking, if reported, never managed to replicate it in duels in order to find the root cause, my guess is therefore that latency thingy

So spell reflecting cast with 0.1s remaining time is not as hard here compared to other realms, if you actually pay attention and practice it in BGs you can get pretty good at it (and of course you as war need to have good latency).

In my opinion spell delay should be reduced from the actual amount to 50/75% ? Just an idea.

P.S. - People accusing this guy of being Justicelight. Well, first things first, if it was really Justice he would be banned as soon as he would log online, considering GMs obsession with his persona. Second thing, lmao, Justice would never ever play war at this level in PvP (I know you will read this Justice, sorry but its true :D ).

P.S.2 - now I see Tooze saying something about dmg hack or so, no idea, if this is actually even possible, if the player has no access to gm commands, but this can be easily tracked even through armory, current GMs can check my old report when Krull gave himself 100% armor pene and 1400 resilience as war and got banned immediately after I reported him. I had opened and auto-refreshed armory many times during games on second monitor and did not see him having some abnormal stats at any given point, so I would refrain of accusing people without having solid proof at my side. Just as a side note, him on Novus had always better gear than Tooze in those arenas just way lower resi (PvE gear is important in this case).

Anyway, I am tired already, so I would just say at the end, that it is again same situation like years ago when different top players (2.5k + AT rat ) who played here got accussed of cheating/hacking and whatnot (rock, templar, greensmoker, me included even tho I suck, Justicelight, Anowena and many more), you must remember, there is different kind of a skill cap in PvP than you are used to. Everyone from mentioned players would give advices to anyone who would ask them, however people often do not want to fall and believe that there is actually someone better than them and instead try to find ways how to get rid of them instead.

Now it is up to the staff to decide what the outcome will be based on the proof they have collected.

P.S.3 - We still have not forgotten about how GMs have abused their power and kicked us from 2 arenas for no apparent reason. Did not make big fuss about it, but honestly, never seen such unprofessional behaviour from the staff for the entire 12 years that I am playing here.

Image

This was my personal opinion about this whole situation.

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Jiranthos
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#18 » Post by Jiranthos » 01 Apr 2021 21:54

Thanks for your input guys. If you have more to say or more videos or any other proof, let's have them all. This is not going to be an easy open-and-shut case and might take a long time to resolve, so let's not be emotional and try to get to the bottom of all of this with logic and reason.

P.S. Boxis, I am not sure what kicking you are talking about. I talked with my colleagues and none seem to remember kicking anyone from arenas. I checked the logs as well (which can't edited or tampered with) and it shows no such kicks.

Everybody knows that the best way to describe the ocean to a blind man is to push him in

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nikkal
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#19 » Post by nikkal » 01 Apr 2021 22:00

I've had plenty of games vs these guys to know when something is off. And in 10+ years of playing wow, pvping mostly, i've never seen such reaction times, interupts or reflects at that speed. Novus damage is just insane for his gear, no matter what you say, ppl with Wf gears and SM can't pull so many crits and that damage. If there is more videos, i'd love to see more, as well as everyone here, i believe.

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tudorhd1
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#20 » Post by tudorhd1 » 01 Apr 2021 22:04

Jiranthos wrote:
01 Apr 2021 15:00
I have reviewed the report, the video and similar reports and It does indeed appear to feature superhuman reaction and quite blatant disruption of game mechanics, namely the GCD.

Anyone else have similar things to report? This is not okay and not going to go unpunished.

Elite decked out sharks stomping regular players and dodging is dirty and discouraging, wintrading is forbidden, but this is outright disgusting.
Boxis wrote:
01 Apr 2021 21:30

However, what I see from the video are 2 random SR right on time and supposedly used thunderclap with the same gcd as mortal strike.

About that thunderclap, well its not thunderclap but my Hammer of Wrath so I am not sure if this is a joke or not, since you see it flying from the Paladin. Therefore all accusations of these people about GCD hack being used in this example are negated. Anyway, I have recorded this same game from palas PoV with combat log, so ye.
I hope by "to resolve" you mean a fair trial and nothing pulled towards ban, something biased as your messages are looking like: "This is you blatantly cheating and lying to my face trying to deny the accusations as if I just showed up out of nowhere and this is my first time investigating a report, which I could take as an insult to my intelligence."
This drama looks more like aggressive attitude towards me, based on proof that just got dismantled.

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bobsmyname
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#21 » Post by bobsmyname » 01 Apr 2021 22:05

Boxis wrote:
01 Apr 2021 21:30
About that thunderclap, well its not thunderclap but my Hammer of Wrath so I am not sure if this is a joke or not, since you see it flying from the Paladin. Therefore all accusations of these people about GCD hack being used in this example are negated. Anyway, I have recorded this same game from palas PoV with combat log, so ye.

P.S.3 - We still have not forgotten about how GMs have abused their power and kicked us from 2 arenas for no apparent reason. Did not make big fuss about it, but honestly, never seen such unprofessional behaviour from the staff for the entire 12 years that I am playing here.

Image
Yes, it is hammer of wrath. idk how I never actually saw the hammer in air, I suppose just seeing both go through at same time coupled with my frustration just made me assume it was what I said. Disregard the gcd accusation.

And yeah I still don't know what to say about those two games, I questioned it in game as well and got no response, and saw it brought up in TW discord so I didn't want to bother asking the same things a second time.
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andriuspel
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#22 » Post by andriuspel » 01 Apr 2021 22:07

well, there auto rotation scripting software by base idea inject wow memory, if anti-anticheat is provided, it can fake security checks sent by server. These kicks could happen when such application freezes or fails to properly inject memory.
This is one of possibilities why you could get such disconnects. Also we spoke in discord ticket, we already answered, admins too that none was kicking you + none can fake gm logs.

ps: not only current reporters are suspicious but we also had reports from many more players too but this time we have some video footage which can help to inspect more details. Currently we're still analysing whole datas but currently not stating any statements
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Boxis
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#23 » Post by Boxis » 01 Apr 2021 22:14

andriuspel wrote:
01 Apr 2021 22:07
well, there auto rotation scripting software by base idea inject wow memory, if anti-anticheat is provided, it can fake security checks sent by server. These kicks could happen when such application freezes or fails to properly inject memory.
This is one of possibilities why you may had such disconnects. Also we spoke in discord ticket, we already answered, admins too that none was kicking you + none can fake gm logs
It is strange this "freeze of his hacking software" happened right after we scored a kill. However, what is even more strange is that arena game ended 20 seconds afterwards even though I was still inside, alive and feeling quite well my performance.

But no point in creating new conspiracy theories, I have obviously nothing to back it up that GM was involved, it must have been something else which never happened in last 12 years.

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tudorhd1
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#24 » Post by tudorhd1 » 01 Apr 2021 22:16

andriuspel wrote:
01 Apr 2021 22:07
well, there auto rotation scripting software by base idea inject wow memory, if anti-anticheat is provided, it can fake security checks sent by server. These kicks could happen when such application freezes or fails to properly inject memory.
This is one of possibilities why you may had such disconnects. Also we spoke in discord ticket, we already answered, admins too that none was kicking you + none can fake gm logs
The fact is suspicious because we were playing already 15 or more games that day. And after we win most of them, ppl started to complain and make tickets saying that me (Rival) is using GCD, dmg hack or w/e. Right after this we were kicked out in the next 2 games for no reason. It can be verified that we played all those games constantly, and now the question is why anti-anticheat didnt kick us from the arenas before?

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Jiranthos
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#25 » Post by Jiranthos » 01 Apr 2021 22:22

tudorhd1 wrote:
01 Apr 2021 22:04
I hope by "to resolve" you mean a fair trial and nothing pulled towards ban, something biased as your messages are looking like: "This is you blatantly cheating and lying to my face trying to deny the accusations as if I just showed up out of nowhere and this is my first time investigating a report, which I could take as an insult to my intelligence."
This drama looks more like aggressive attitude towards me, based on proof that just got dismantled.
Of course, that is what I mean. Everyone who knows who I am and how I have judged in the past knows this.
Don't try to gain some emotional points by quoting myself at me. I already told you that we have evidence outside of this one video and that is what I am also taking into account. Cheap shot taking my words out of context. This is why I wanted you to stop making a ticket and do all discussions here publicly, so I could save myself time and energy by not having to refute all these distractions and having to post screenshots from our private chat earlier in full-context mode.

All that notwithstanding, I am not denying that to me you are more guilty than innocent right now. Call it "biased" or whatever but it's not looking good. But I am an open-minded person and if you knew my history or my personality at all you would realize that the way to win me over is not the typical sassing back with quotes and aggression but putting logical rational arguments on the table. This call-out is a literally painstaking side-track, let's refrain from such. It's straw manning and ad-hominem remarks which serve literally no value to the discussion at hand. And baiting. You will gain nothing to enter a flame war with me in the eyes of the public, nor in the eyes of me, nor in the eyes of the staff, regardless of whether you win or lose said flame war. Better concentrate on the technicalities and details.

I assure you we'll try to reproduce everything and take everyone's opinion and information into account and I am always ready to admit a mistake and change my mind. That being said, I am not a Blizzard employee who will smile at everything or some robot automaton and if you keep antagonizing me as a person it's much harder to remain impartial and just. I hope that's fair. I am trying to keep a level head and patience, though.

EDIT: P.S. I still do not think that this proof has been dismantled. It's gray-area at the most.

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andriuspel
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#26 » Post by andriuspel » 01 Apr 2021 22:25

again, i'm not stating anything yet, but overally i been suggesting for most players which were called as dodgers or similar that to use video recording or actually try to stream it. RAW videos could help to identify and maybe defend on some accusations but of course latency could make minor side effects.

having periodical 0.1s reflections also is bit suspicious. Currently i'm still developing advanced arena proofing (not applied to live servers yet) for every arena match but auto-rotation software is hard to detect even by other bigger wow servers.

I been fighting with such hacking software bit long time, i even reworked whole systems but such software becomes smarter and smarter...
A son asked his father (a programmer) why the sun rises in the east, and sets in the west. His response? It works, don’t touch!

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tudorhd1
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#27 » Post by tudorhd1 » 01 Apr 2021 22:39

Dear Mr. Admin Jiranthos, I have the following things to tell you:

At this point, I am feeling harrased, without being placed in a neutral stance until the "investigation" ends.
You find me guilty in a hasty manner, which hurts the gameplay and the experience this server has to offer me.
I know there is frustration among "pvp" players, but it's maybe a good idea, as Andrius said, to start streaming the gameplay, it can help those who might need to learn more things about warrior (we know who ^_^ ).
Lastly, a rethorical question: If I did mistakes, I can be punished. But when admins do mistakes, who can punishe them??

EDIT: Lastly, I hope you are checking if proofs are legit, instead of looking for proof to ban me. There is a big difference there.

Thanks

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Jiranthos
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#28 » Post by Jiranthos » 01 Apr 2021 23:30

So now that we both have felt equally harassed, let's disperse with the nonsense.

An answer to your question, albeit rhetorical: The community can punish the admins (to an extent). While this is a private space run by a private team that can run it as fairly or unfairly as they see fit and make up any rules they want, good or bad, I'll remind you that we don't receive literally anything for running this place out of our own time and energy and money. We're working here just because we like to give quality experience and gameplay. And at least I can speak for myself, that reputation matters. So if I was being unjust and abusive, my reputation would falter and that would be punishment in itself, would drive players away, etc. As a side-note I'll already add that the team here has suffered many such punishments and made many mistakes in the past and it's very hard to rebuild the trust players have in the staff team. So there's your staff/admin punishment. Myself, at least, I want to make a server enjoyable for all, get rid of all the dirty players and be remembered as a good admin who will always listen to reason and try to help but who can also be strict and will not be walked all over. It's not always easy to make decisions but my best policy is honesty and integrity, and consistency. That's why I am not pretending to anyone to be neutral. At the circumstances as they are right now, I am swaying to not believe you, but you or something or someone else could easily change my mind, as I have already stated.

Short version:
Yes, I am checking all information in a fair manner, don't worry. It's just unpleasant to be met with doubts and hostility on every turn.

Everybody knows that the best way to describe the ocean to a blind man is to push him in

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Jiranthos
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Re: Hacking in Arena

#29 » Post by Jiranthos » 21 Apr 2021 09:47

Hello everyone!

We've brought the investigation to it's conclusion and have decided to take no action in this Player Report. While there is multiple evidence - none of it is too conclusive and the witness testimonies have also not been enough to completely sway the decision. These arena matches are shady and we hope they won't occur again and are willing to accept it as freak occurrence for now. We have also taken in consideration the fact that players have reported to us that the person in question "Rival" has been recently seen playing Arenas and BGs for a longer time with a diminished skill or fewer events of a lucky nature. If this means "Rival" has stopped using exploits, then good. Let's keep it that way, or I am sure someone will notice and gather much more conclusive evidence next time and also being reported previously and investigated once already will not be taken as a positive next time around. If this means that it was just luck and not exploits in the first place, also good. This means that there is no wrongdoing here and there will be no wrongdoing in the future.

This decision is approved by the majority of the current TrueWoW Staff members as well as server administrators.

The decision is not up for appeal, the thread is going to be locked and eventually archived after some time has passed for players to read it in it's entirety. If you have new complaints, please create new reports with new evidence if required.

Have a good day and happy playing!

-J

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