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Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 22 Sep 2023 10:20
by Roel
Changes resulting from last week's poll and feedback:
- 10% chance for every boss in lvl 80 heroic dungeons to drop an Emblem of Frost.
- 50% chance for every boss in lvl 80 raids to drop an Emblem of Frost (not VoA).
- Return of dungeon binds so you only get each heroic once per day.
- Dungeons can now start with 3 or 4 players if a tank and heal queued.
- Incomplete groups will queue automatically on entry for easier filling.
- Adjusted required item level for heroics, fresh 80s are grouped into the easiest heroics.

A majority voted for Emblem of Frost as motivation for doing more dungeons. The reward is less than suggested as compromise for those who voted against. We understand that we shouldn't diverge too far from the blizzlike approach while trying to find a middle ground between these two sides of our community.

The method of drop chance gives more freedom compared to having all the rewards behind the random queue. Note that these drops can also happen on your first dungeon of the day. It encourages doing optional bosses and there is less penalty for not finishing a dungeon.

Raids shouldn't be ignored and are another reason for not adding all the rewards to dungeons. Again the drop chance encourages a variety of bosses compared to weekly quests. The drop has been added to all bosses and modes from these raids: OS (only Sarth), EoE, Ony, Naxx, Uld, ToC.

Dungeon binds result in more variety as was requested. It prevents farming the most efficient heroic and can also serve as a daily emblem limit if someone has time to do all dungeons.

Doing dungeons with less players mostly benefits other time zones and lower levels, it also reduces queue times. Instead of waiting in the queue, you can already start clearing. Other players automatically get invited and teleported to you when they queue halfway the dungeon unless someone declines the popup. Note that you don't get deserter for leaving a 3 player group so you can queue again if something is too difficult. The average item level required for most heroics was increased to compensate for this extra difficulty.

All of this is still subject to change depending on future feedback, we will see how this works out.

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 22 Sep 2023 21:12
by xyzfr

This is a translated message, I hope it's understandable.

I don't like the new changes, it's harmful.

The game is already very simple, and by listening to the demands of all those who want to get everything quickly, it's rotting the game.

What do you think will happen once everyone has acquired all the emblems very quickly?

People will get bored and leave, or ask for raids to be carried out with fewer players than planned... it'll become a "fun" server instead of a Blizzlike one.

What drew me to this server was the fact that it was Blizzlike; if I'd seen all these changes at the time, I'd never have come here.

We need to go back to the way things used to be, the 100% Blizzlike way.

Sooner or later, this will attract disappointed players from other servers who want to get back to the game they used to enjoy.

I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about PvP:

We should also do something viable to relaunch PvP.

Think about becoming a PvP server again in the near future, as this will attract additional players to revive BGs and arenas.

If the server remains Crossfaction, at least forcibly activate the PvP tag in certain outside areas.

Having the option of registering for BG and dungeons at the same time won't necessarily have a negative impact on the game.

A few years ago, in both PvP and PvE, this server had it all!

Nothing's lost; with the right choices, it could go back to the way it was.

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 22 Sep 2023 22:54
by andriuspel
so seems roel still keeps deleting my messages... like last ones which i left for players in discord... I retired from team and i have no connection to this change and i was boycotting these changes, but anyways guys, goodluck in this fun server

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 23 Sep 2023 00:38
by m2oenergym2o
- against random frost emblems drops from dungeons
- against random frost emblems drops from raids
- strongly agains random heroic dungeons start with less than 5 people

At this point, just mail t10 set to all fresh 80s and we gucci

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 23 Sep 2023 05:46
by kitsuneryuu
Already voted against any change - seems all players like me were ignored.
Still opposing any change - we were fine on old style wotlk (loved that).
Won't be playing here anymore - probably not the only person thinking it.
This is no longer the server I chose years ago - good luck with your custom game.

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 23 Sep 2023 23:47
by blazikenas

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 24 Sep 2023 05:23
by xyzfr

I hope Andriuspel will return to the team soon.

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 26 Sep 2023 17:24
by kurifissu
I hope those who left still read this.

Binding heroic dungeons to once per day makes it more blizzlike, not less.

A lot of people already have all the EOF they will ever need, still they continue playing.
Progressing gear with emblems of frost before the changes was hard for new players in european time zones and impossible for new players in other time zones, which was the problem in the first place.

The time when Truewow was fully blizzlike was many many years ago, and at that time there were much more players, and each player had more time. Even before the changes we had crossfaction, repeatable heroic dungeons, no forced pvp, Ah bot, and the whole thing about bosses not behaving exactly as they were supposed to, which was constantly being fixed and tweaked. None of those things is blizzlike, but they make the game much more playable with low population.

Today there are less people playing for many reasons, it is unrealistic to want the server to be like it was, you would need to turn back time. Its simplistic to just want more population, but its not something that's going to happen suddenly.
We still have new players, it is just a different era, it's 2023, people don't live life the same way they used to, there are a lot of free games these days with quality, there is so much more electronic junk that dilutes the attention of people who, 10 years ago, might have tried out this server.

Think of the new players that struggle to have a dungeon, while you sit on hundreds of emblems, money, and gear.

I think you have the right to want the good old days, but think about the people who originally complained that they couldn't do RHC.

Do you really think they wanted to have it "easy", or they just wanted to play at all?
Do you think or care about the new players who leveled their first character, for the first time, in this server, reading your chat, and now reach level 80 and can't progress because they can only play when the population is low?

The changes aren't definitive, if you think they are wrong you need to think about how to fix the original problem and the people it affects when you speak out your disagreement.

TL;DR: consider that maybe you're being selfish and exaggerating, cunts, don't leave <3.

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 26 Sep 2023 21:52
by Leidenfrost
Personally, these changes do not motivate me to do rhc more, at least on characters that are not fresh 80s. Extra stonekeeper's shards or perhaps just honor might motivate me.

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 27 Sep 2023 11:15
by Rascall
These changes are not meant to motivate veterans to run rhcs over and over. These changes are meant for new players so they can join the farm and catch up with items. While I enjoy having the rhc queue pop almost instantly, I see some issues.

The latest changes are mixing 2 game elements, one is access to rewards, e.g. EOF (blizzlike way is going into daily rhc, weekly quest, ICC and RS). the second is getting the reward (blizzlike way is finishing the rhc, weekly quest and killing ICC and RS bosses).

Acess to rewards was hampered because of low population and as rightly pointed out, players from some time zones were unable to form 5 man groups for rdf. Let alone it was a struggle to form ICC25n in European time. Players thus could not obtain EOF or even EOT to buy starter gear for raids. Raiders then lacked players for end game content. Enabling 3/5 rdf entrance is much better. I know there has been a discussion whether 4/5 players as a minimum is not better to avoid extremely slow progress through dungeon when 3 low geared players cannot push forward. I do not see any issue with the implementation of the change. I fully support it. Before it was a struggle to get into rhc and get daily EOF and additional EOT. Nowadays access to rewards is again fully enabled. Players can run many rhcs per day and gear up.

The second game element is getting the reward and here I see many issues. I know the chance to obtain a bonus EOF is 10% from a rhc boss and 50% from other raids. But to me this is still giving out free EOF. Sure, it is argued that because of lack of raids, players need to catch up with the EOF income per week. But the same way it can be argued that since veterans lack RS25hc, give STShc for 5000 EOF in a custom vendor in Dalaran...and I am sure many veterans would start farming emblems to obtain it. It is a slippery slope to take away mechanics limitting getting the reward. I can understand it as a temporary solution so that newcomers and fresh 80s can catch up with emblems and starter gear but long term this can be damaging. There is no logical reason to give away EOF like this nor for players (incl. starters) to beg for EOF. A starter 80 can run many rhcs per day (he/she now can because of the 3/5 player limit) and obtain many EOT per day. a 4,5 GS lvl 80 char is ready for ICC10n/ICC25n farm (setting aside the question of skill). 4,5 GS is easily obtained from rhc items (FOS, POS, HOR, Dalaran vendors, crafted gear...).

My suggestion is to reconsider the present model. Make 4/5 as a minimum for entering rhc (if scripting allows, in non-European zones and morning times enable 3/5 only) and remove the EOF free give away.

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 27 Sep 2023 11:45
by xyzfr
To consider:

There are people looking for a Blizzlike server; if this isn't the case and no Blizzlike server is online then they'll go to the most populated server.

If I'd seen the possibility of joining a dungeon with only 3 people, I'd have quickly looked elsewhere without hesitation because I'd have thought that all the rest of the content might be like that.

It seems to me that it's allowed to register with a second account to enter the dungeon when one player is missing, so... it's up to them to temporarily create this second account for that.

Why not hold a vote on whether it would be cool to reset all accounts and restart the whole game at level 1 on May 1, 2024?

End of crossfaction at the same time.

There would be no more RHC or other problems, and it would be great publicity for the server via social networks.

And if that doesn't work, go back and restore all current accounts after a month (sent by e-mail to warn everyone).

Sorry, language barrier so translation is average.

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 27 Sep 2023 12:31
by Rascall
There are people looking for a Blizzlike server; if this isn't the case and no Blizzlike server is online then they'll go to the most populated server.
Have you considered that some players see the impossibility to progress with their chars and leave? What for it is to be proud of 100% blizzlike server with 30 online? Maybe you just log in the evening and wait for end game raids but a lot of people log to get rhcs done and they cannot...Once they get tired of the situation, they decide that it is wrong to invest time in characters that would not progress no matter turn this harms everything in the game...As was mentioned many times, Blizzlike game works if you have Blizzlike population...
It seems to me that it's allowed to register with a second account to enter the dungeon when one player is missing
Multi-logging is not an option. It never was. What difference does it make for you if a player is multilogged in a dungeon (his second char doing 0 dps as it is difficult to play in both windows at the same time) and empty player spot doing 0 dps.
Why not hold a vote on whether it would be cool to reset all accounts and restart the whole game at level 1 on May 1, 2024?
Because I am 100% sure that everyone would be against losing their progression. Truewow is attractive because of its longevity. Players come here to continue their progression. If you tell the majority of players that they have to level from 1 again, they would stop playing...or tell you "Why level from 1 on a server with 40 online when I can level from 1 on a server with 4000 online"...The player who enjoys leveling is an extremely rare type.

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 27 Sep 2023 14:41
by Hordetroll666
I disagree with start from lvl 1.
I like to lvl a char, but not if I must loose a lvl 80 char. A char where I spent so much time.
I think its better to get rhc back like what it was. Maybe new players are more motivated with frost, but when they get enough frost, we start over with not enough players for rhc.
About crossfaction, maybe if we have better population. With crossfaction its sometimes hard to find a group xD

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 03 Oct 2023 13:20
by Cain
Im very happy to see these changes, and I can't wait to come back to game to farm RHC's as its basicly the only activity you can do on server, and finally I would be able to gear up my alts.

Just to be clear, I've in TW since 2012, and I only get like 4 chars geared up with 5.8+ gs due lack of raids, so Im happy to see that there is a chance to gear up faster.

And I dont see the problem that people are gonna gear up to fast: I still enjoy to play with my most geared chars, because it allows me to easly farm rep for factions or do some rare achivements.

Re: Dungeon Finder rework

Posted: 20 Jan 2024 16:28
by Chillerich
Are the random drops of frost emblems disabled now for rhc and raids?