Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

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Skye
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Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

#1 » Post by Skye » 24 Nov 2017 03:04




HEALING NERF UPDATES


There has been a lot of doubts about the latest changes to healing, so as someone who has been involved with it from the beginning I am stepping ahead to address most of your doubts and concerns about the matter.



HEALING NERF UPDATE: WHAT CHANGED?


Back during the vanilla stage of progression raids and dungeons had a healing debuff applied to players that would reduce their healing output by a given percent. This debuff worked in a similar way to any other healing reduction aura e.g warrior's Mortal Strike.

When we moved to TBC the system was redesigned to allow better management and flexibility - it no longer relied on an aura, or spell, so it could be conditioned and changed as we pleased.

With this redesign the healing reduction was applied directly to the healing formula before any modifiers (spell power, % done bonus) took place. In other words, it only affected the base healing output from the abilities.

With the latest update however this has been corrected, so now the healing reduction is applied after the total healing value is calculated, in the same way it was done back during vanilla.

You should consider that this gives you the same effect as from let's say Battleground Dampening, it works in a similar way, but inside instances. The more spell power you have, the more you will notice it taking effect.

This change was supposed to air back at the Tempest Keep: The Eye "pre-patch" thread, but since the changes were still experimental and the latest tests had reported no changes to them they were left out of the announcement.




BUG FIXES: DRUIDS AREN'T AS HOT AS BEFORE


During one of the many tests done to address this issue, we have identified that the healing reduction was not being carried over properly to "healing over time" abilities. Those abilities were completely unaffected by the last test performed by me last week.

This is one of the reasons druids were so overpowered in comparison to other classes, so this bug fix should put them all at the same ground of competition.




CHEERS: HEALING NERF IN KARAZHAN AND DUNGEONS BEING LOWERED TO 20%


As a dear friend once said, the community comes first and what the community wants should be our goal, given that it stays true to the purpose of providing a fair and enjoyable experience to everyone. After listening to many of your complaints about the healing nerf and how heavy has it been to entry level instances and dungeons, we have decided through a democratic discussion to lower the healing nerf values in Karazhan and all of the Outland dungeons (5 man normals and heroics). You have asked for it... and we agreed that is reasonable, so here it is!

We plan to leave the current values for Gruul's, Magtheridon's, Serpentshrine Cavern and Tempest Keep as they are for the time being, but that is a matter we may be revisiting once enough data is collected now after those fundamental changes to the healing reduction system.

Those updates will roll out at the next week's routine maintenance.





Let me know what you think about those changes and if there are still any doubts about them in the comments section bellow.

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Dunkelstein
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Re: Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

#2 » Post by Dunkelstein » 24 Nov 2017 05:10

Great decisions, great announcement. This cleared up the confusion for good.
Do the changes for Kara and Dungeons go live with the next weekly reset?

From my PoV as a tester I want to emphasize that the staff is taking community feedback seriously.
Right now in the Tester Forums we are still working together to collect data on the new changes and tweak them if need be, not just to make current content more enjoyable but also to ensure good tuning for the TK release.

Check out viewtopic.php?f=50&t=38645 and become a tester if you want to become more involved.
If you don't want to get too involved you can also share your data in the #damageshowoff discord channel, or directly with a tester who you know from ingame. Every little bit helps.
Aka Funkelstein

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.Watson1988
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Re: Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

#3 » Post by .Watson1988 » 24 Nov 2017 08:52

Thanks for your attempt to be more transparent with done changes. And good choice to only use a 20% in Kara and heroic dungeons (although some dungeon bosses are still borderline impossible for some healing classes like Broggok for Paladin healers).

Yet, I still think using the aura to apply general healing nerfs was a better choice for us. Adding more complexity to a system is quite often not a benefit. Now it seems you have to nerf every single healing spell on its own. Last time hots were "forgotten", this time it seems you forgot healing touch. Furthermore, it opens the way to special treatment of each healing spell and we might soon spend our time discussing why this and that class/spell should be exempt from the general healing debuff.
We are a very small community with only a few testers and even less coders. So I'd prefer to have fewer variables to adjust.

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Skye
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Re: Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

#4 » Post by Skye » 24 Nov 2017 11:36

.Watson1988 wrote:
24 Nov 2017 08:52
Yet, I still think using the aura to apply general healing nerfs was a better choice for us. Adding more complexity to a system is quite often not a benefit. Now it seems you have to nerf every single healing spell on its own. Last time hots were "forgotten", this time it seems you forgot healing touch. Furthermore, it opens the way to special treatment of each healing spell and we might soon spend our time discussing why this and that class/spell should be exempt from the general healing debuff.
We are a very small community with only a few testers and even less coders. So I'd prefer to have fewer variables to adjust.
Those assumptions are very wrong. No complexity was added to the player's end: every spell is still globally nerfed, as if the players had an aura applied to them. It only gives more flexibility to us when it comes to values per zone and everything else.

Healing touch had changes applied to it by design. Sadly I cannot refer to them as I was not involved with the process of designing it. If it is skipping the healing nerf right now then there's an issue that needs to be addressed.

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.Watson1988
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Re: Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

#5 » Post by .Watson1988 » 24 Nov 2017 13:05

Okay, so how does it work then if it is not an area specific aura that applies to a pre-specified spell? If I understood it correctly, in vanilla the aura was applied to specific classes and decreased all their done healing even bandages. I can only see the ingame results of what you apply in the code and right now I see that some spells are not affected by the healing nerf like Healing Touch and Lay on Hands for example.

And how can adding more adjustable variables on the developer side not result in an increase in complexity for developers?

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Re: Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

#6 » Post by Anesthesia » 24 Nov 2017 13:31

If I remember correctly, https://truewow.org/armory/spell.php?id=10310&realm=t was removed from healing nerf sometime around AQ40 release, because it heals for the amount equal to Paladin's maximum health.
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Skye
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Re: Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

#7 » Post by Skye » 24 Nov 2017 14:00

.Watson1988 wrote:
24 Nov 2017 13:05
Okay, so how does it work then if it is not an area specific aura that applies to a pre-specified spell? If I understood it correctly, in vanilla the aura was applied to specific classes and decreased all their done healing even bandages. I can only see the ingame results of what you apply in the code and right now I see that some spells are not affected by the healing nerf like Healing Touch and Lay on Hands for example.

And how can adding more adjustable variables on the developer side not result in an increase in complexity for developers?
The healing nerf aura was applied to every player, the same aura, regardless of the class their characters were.

Bandages have not been affected by the healing nerf for a long while, they were never affected by them during TBC. The same way Lay on Hands has indeed not been affected by it ever since Naxxramas or so, because it heals for the paladin's maximum health and that has never been changed through the expansions.

I have said nothing changes from the player perspective, I never said it wouldn't be more complex for developers. But in this case, the system is rather simple so this complexity is moreorever meaningless. But I really wouldn't like to digress about development complexity, because that's changes a lot from one person to another depending on how oriented they are around the code they are manipulating.

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.Watson1988
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Re: Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

#8 » Post by .Watson1988 » 24 Nov 2017 16:12

Skye wrote:
24 Nov 2017 14:00
The healing nerf aura was applied to every player, the same aura, regardless of the class their characters were.
I don't know whether it was class specific or spell specific. I only know that my warlock was not affected by it in any way.
Skye wrote:
24 Nov 2017 14:00
I have said nothing changes from the player perspective [...]
Well, neither did I, but I guess misunderstandings happen.
Skye wrote:
24 Nov 2017 14:00
But in this case, the system is rather simple so this complexity is moreorever meaningless.
Right now it doesn't look that simple to outsiders due to the happened omission(s). But I'll just wait and see.
Skye wrote:
24 Nov 2017 14:00
But I really wouldn't like to digress about development complexity, because that's changes a lot from one person to another depending on how oriented they are around the code they are manipulating.
I take that as a "No, I won't explain that to you". Fair enough.

Overall, not very enlightening but we have digressed too far from the original topic by now anyway.

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Skye
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Re: Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

#9 » Post by Skye » 24 Nov 2017 16:29

Sorry, but I really couldn't explain to you any better unless I showed you the actual code :D

It does what I've told you it does:

After spell power and modifiers are calculated.

First condition: Should the spell receive the reduction?
Yes: Go to 2nd contition
No: Do nothing and exit with full healing output

Second condition: Is the area the player is in under effect of healing reduction?
Yes: Get the healing debuff percentage and lower the healing output appropriately.
No: Do nothing and exit with full healing output.

That's it! I don't know what other kind of information would be more enlightening to you...

If I went out and posted code data it would just make users more confused for not understanding the code, programming logic or how the core itself works. So there's really no point in doing that.

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Re: Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

#10 » Post by agrodon » 24 Nov 2017 22:44

The reason druids were so powerful wasn't because the healing nerf wasn't applied to HoTs, it was. Their base value are just very low with high SP scaling so the effect of the healing nerf wasn't as noticable.

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Skye
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Re: Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

#11 » Post by Skye » 24 Nov 2017 23:06

Thank you for the notes, Agrodon! That actually makes a lot of sense. However, it is safe to assume that for the previous lockout there were no reductions applied to heal over time effects. Nothing to worry about anymore - those issues are gone.

Regards

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Re: Healing Nerf Updates to PrimalWoW

#12 » Post by agrodon » 24 Nov 2017 23:17

Ah okay so it was a new bug that arrose last week. It's good to have some clarity on the healing nerf situation, thanks for making this thread!

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