EllE's Rogue Bible for PrimalTBC

Post Reply
User avatar
Mizzeeh
Posts: 105
Joined: 24 Nov 2016 21:00

EllE's Rogue Bible for PrimalTBC

#1 » Post by Mizzeeh » 06 Jun 2017 10:02

Hello friends,

A little over a month ago I posted this thread in the rogue section here with the spreadsheet I built for the Vanilla phase of PrimalWoW, in it I hinted that I was working on a lot more stuff for TBC.

With TBC just around the corner I am ready to release the first version of my Rogue Bible for PrimalTBC.

What this is:
- A guide to the basics of how to play a Rogue in PvE, especially raids
- A pre-bis list and a complete gear guide for all available content
- A tool that can help you select the gear you want based on your own values
- (And soon an encounter specific raid guide!)

What this isn't:
- A spreadsheet, all the information in the guide is supported by my own spreadsheet which is not yet in a state where it can be relased
- A PvP guide, this is something I may add in at a later date with the cooperation of some of this server's best PvP rogues
- A leveling guide


As always, feel free to contact me in-game via whispers or mail, or here on the forums by posting in this thread or sending me PMs. I would love to answer any questions you have about the guide or rogues in general, assuming I'm not busy raiding(or leveling!).

Changelog:
4/7/2017 - 2 new tabs added for T4 gear, full with updated AEP values and new gear. Work started on adding links to items.

- Ellester
Last edited by Mizzeeh on 04 Jul 2017 17:29, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Xaveine
Posts: 2
Joined: 08 Feb 2017 01:38

Re: EllE's Rogue Bible for PrimalTBC

#2 » Post by Xaveine » 09 Jun 2017 23:01

Ellester - Thank you again for putting this together. It is fantastic. A couple questions at the start:
1. When you calculated the AEPs for the weapons in the Bible, did you switch specs to use Mace Specialization, Hack and Slash, and Close Quarters combat with the appropriate MH weapon?
2. Is there a pre-raid hit cap? What are we shooting for here?

Thanks again!
-X

User avatar
Floss
Posts: 473
Joined: 25 Jan 2014 20:46

Re: EllE's Rogue Bible for PrimalTBC

#3 » Post by Floss » 09 Jun 2017 23:25

Looks good mate.
Good job.

User avatar
Sativ
Posts: 5
Joined: 13 Mar 2017 22:30

Re: EllE's Rogue Bible for PrimalTBC

#4 » Post by Sativ » 10 Jun 2017 19:30

Amazing resource. Thank you.

User avatar
Mizzeeh
Posts: 105
Joined: 24 Nov 2016 21:00

Re: EllE's Rogue Bible for PrimalTBC

#5 » Post by Mizzeeh » 11 Jun 2017 01:23

Xaveine wrote:
09 Jun 2017 23:01
Ellester - Thank you again for putting this together. It is fantastic. A couple questions at the start:
1. When you calculated the AEPs for the weapons in the Bible, did you switch specs to use Mace Specialization, Hack and Slash, and Close Quarters combat with the appropriate MH weapon?
2. Is there a pre-raid hit cap? What are we shooting for here?

Thanks again!
-X

Hey, glad you like it, to answer your questions.

1. No, I did not, mainly because I didn't find a way to represent it that I liked; for main hands the amount of AEP each specc is worth rather depends on your off-hand, and if we assume people are using daggers, as most will be, then you run into some issues when people aren't. For off-hands the effect is rather drastic and can potentially depend on your MH and most of the time you will be in a situation where you will be using your MH weapon spec.

However, I can tell you that if we set Mace+Dagger with 5/5 mace spec as the baseline then we get these results, assuming the same weapons:
Fist+Dagger: +35.2 AEP
Mace+Sword: +51.8 AEP
Fist+Sword: +65.0 AEP
Sword+Sword: +150.5 AEP

This should help you decide if you have 2 fairly close weapons to choose from, but in the long run you will almost always be choosing between mace/dagger and mace/sword with the occasional sword/sword thrown in there in late t6+. This also doesn't change the rankings of any of the MHs in my list aside from bumping Fel Edged Battleaxe up 2 places if you have a sword off-hand.

2. Yes, there technically is, but it's so trivial that because hit, even after hitting both soft-caps, is a good stat for rogues you will hit it in pre-bis gear regardless of what you do. For raid bosses your poisons hit cap(the 2nd soft-hit cap) is between 101 hit and 151 hit, depending on your access to a draenei and a shadow priest or moonkin.

User avatar
Mizzeeh
Posts: 105
Joined: 24 Nov 2016 21:00

Re: EllE's Rogue Bible for PrimalTBC

#6 » Post by Mizzeeh » 11 Jun 2017 01:24

Floss wrote:
09 Jun 2017 23:25
Looks good mate.
Good job.
Sativ wrote:
10 Jun 2017 19:30
Amazing resource. Thank you.

Thank ye, mateys.

User avatar
Lyenlash
Posts: 1
Joined: 27 Mar 2017 22:54

Re: EllE's Rogue Bible for PrimalTBC

#7 » Post by Lyenlash » 12 Jun 2017 00:27

Hi in your guide you say that the bladefist weapon is better then dragonmaw so is it still worth it to go blacksmithing for dragonstrike or no?
Thanks for the guide man really good work.

User avatar
skyx
Posts: 340
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 17:04

Re: EllE's Rogue Bible for PrimalTBC

#8 » Post by skyx » 12 Jun 2017 01:17

Mizzeeh wrote:
06 Jun 2017 10:02

- A PvP guide, this is something I may add in at a later date with the cooperation of some of this server's best PvP rogues

If there is one piece of advice a PvP rogue guide should give is "5-8 kiting" which is:

"After your atks are blown you stay 5-8 yards away from the warrior. Which is just far enough to avoid Melee damage and too close for him to intercept. Wait for the cooldowns to come back up and re attack. Its kinda like the "Dead zone" hunters used to have."

Source: https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/534914- ... t/43603299

here is a video demonstration with timestamp (extremely old yet still relevant <3)

https://youtu.be/W0OAeEJ3SYg?t=2m28s

also

3.3.5 guides such as

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=101498

and

http://arena-tournament.com/forum/viewf ... f204d0cc04

are still somewhat relevant but you need to dig through and cherry pick the information.

User avatar
Mizzeeh
Posts: 105
Joined: 24 Nov 2016 21:00

Re: EllE's Rogue Bible for PrimalTBC

#9 » Post by Mizzeeh » 13 Jun 2017 00:45

Lyenlash wrote:
12 Jun 2017 00:27
Hi in your guide you say that the bladefist weapon is better then dragonmaw so is it still worth it to go blacksmithing for dragonstrike or no?
Thanks for the guide man really good work.

Hi, one of the main things to keep in mind with AEP is that they are always going to be estimates; every piece of gear you change around changes the AEP value of stats for you in your current gear, usually only very slightly, but occasionally such as when crazy proccs are involved it can change them rather drastically.

Right around the pre-bis level The Bladefist and Dragonstrike draw roughly level on dps in raids on patchwerk style fights, once you start getting t4 gear Dragonstrike slowly pulls ahead and when you get the SSC/TK version of Dragonstrike, Dragonmaw, it will blow everything out of the water. Dragonstrike also pulls ahead of The Bladefist slightly on cleave fights and target swapping fights.

Overall, Dragonstrike is a slightly better weapon than The Bladefist and it sets you up to upgrade it in T5, but The Bladefist is a totally acceptable alternative and will be better in certain situations.

And thanks, glad you liked it.

User avatar
Mizzeeh
Posts: 105
Joined: 24 Nov 2016 21:00

Re: EllE's Rogue Bible for PrimalTBC

#10 » Post by Mizzeeh » 04 Jul 2017 17:27

Just a quick update!

The Bible has (mostly) been updated with Tier 4 and Arena Season 1 gear, you will find them in the new T4 tabs on sheet. As you will see the AEP values are different than for Pre-Raid gear, this is because they're based around you wearing Tier 4 gear, much as how Pre-Raid AEP values were based around you wearing Pre-Raid gear.

If an item is not included in the new tab it is either because A) it is a part of pre-pre-raid and I would expect most people to have better items by the time they start in Kara, B) because the item is actually just really bad and not worth including, regardless of how good it may seem at first glance. However feel free to contact me in-game or here on the forums if you are certain this can't be the case, we could always have missed things.

And last but not least, big shoutout and thanks to Venomous who has been helping me with some of the manual work of inputting items into the sheet and start work on giving item links to databases.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest