Rogue BiS List/Spec Question

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Mordaiyne
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Rogue BiS List/Spec Question

#1 » Post by Mordaiyne » 13 May 2016 07:52

Hey all, first post, I recently transferred a druid over, then realized I wanted to truly relive my vanilla experience with all the cool gear the wotlk client has to offer, so I made a rogue, my first class back in vanilla.

Currently leveling but always theorycrafting and keeping my sights aimed on end game fun.

There are a few lists on these forums as far as BiS pre-raid, but they've fallen silent or are from months ago. Fox provided the list of currently obtainable BiS, but in the comments there is discussion of 6pc Shadowcraft being BiS for the amount of energy gain it provides during fights.

So I came up with this list, with alternatives based on what the loot gods wish to bestow upon you, as long as 6pc is maintained.

The talent build is there as well, im looking for critiques on both the list and the spec from rogues that are currently raiding.

Also, I saw on a few other posts that Doublespoons was testing a hemo dagger build, and theorycrafting with combat daggers?

How are rogues overall in terms of DPS on this server?

Looking forward to hitting 60 and entering the raiding scene with this great community! Cheers!

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Glonz
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Re: Rogue BiS List/Spec Question

#2 » Post by Glonz » 13 May 2016 08:23

The rogue BiS lists you were looking at are really, really outdated, back when 6p Shadowcraft energy proc was broken and procced more than it should. This has been fixed a long time ago :) Right now, you could even consider dropping D1 4p, since the 40 AP can be obtained elsewhere. You wouldn't want 6p D1 at all. However, 4p D2 is something that is considerable...

I'd really like to give you my opinion on your BiS list, however, access is denied for me (and probably for the whole public as well, haha). This means I am not able to critique your spec as well.

There's a list that I made not long ago that is found somewhere deep inside this forum: tinyurl.com/primalbis ...

Hemo is something you wouldn't want to pick up, the Hemo support does not compensate for the loss of your own damage...
The person named Doublespoons hasn't played on this server since forever, so, basically, I don't know what his/her results were.

However, I can tell you that combat daggers are as solid as combat axes/swords/maces (when specced and played correctly, that is).
Overall, rogues appear in the more upper areas of damage meters, they can be considered second best melee dps behind fury warriors (dualwield, I believe). Overall, they're up there, just look out for 'em :)

Finally, I can tell you that the rogue class forums have gathered some dust over the months. Nobody ever posting there, sadly ;(
Therefore it's no surprise that you couldn't find actual information or BiS lists.

I hope you're setting your google document to be able to be accessed publically and I hope you'll have fun playing your rogue in the future.

- Glonz

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Mordaiyne
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Re: Rogue BiS List/Spec Question

#3 » Post by Mordaiyne » 13 May 2016 08:42

My bad, made the document public, doh! Thanks for shedding light on why 6pc was considered popular back then, I thought it was kind of strange!

I'd love to hear your opinions on the list, and talent selections, feel free to leave out most of the Shadowcraft and use the alternate pieces I have listed!

We'll need to resurrect this sub forum with some updated information for new rogues!! ^_^

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MerelyASetback
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Re: Rogue BiS List/Spec Question

#4 » Post by MerelyASetback » 13 May 2016 09:22

Your spec looks okay, personally I would move some points out of Aggression and put them into Improved Poisons (Sinister Strike damage is very low compared to poison damage/the amount of white hits).

As for gearing, Glonz's link is a nice list to strive to.
Generally, just get enough hit rating from any pieces of gear you can find (at least 96 hit rating, I prefer some more, just fiddle on a dummy 'till you find the sweet spot with your current gear) and switch out some pieces as you upgrade them.

Some notable (buyable) items that will help out any starting rogue with hit capping are:
Royal Seal of Eldre'Thalas
High-powered Flashlight
Devilsaur Gauntlets
Devilsaur Leggings

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Mordaiyne
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Re: Rogue BiS List/Spec Question

#5 » Post by Mordaiyne » 13 May 2016 09:57

Thanks for the reply, yeah I was torn between aggression and imp poisons, I'll be sure to swap those points around. Yeah Glonz's list looks solid, time to level up so I can start getting some gear, and it'll be nice to have dummies to smack around for further min maxing! This server has all the right aspects of wotlk while still feeling the vanilla challenge, loving it

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Mordaiyne
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Re: Rogue BiS List/Spec Question

#6 » Post by Mordaiyne » 13 May 2016 10:19

Another question, is the sword spec in combat bugged and the second attack is doing too little? Like Shadowcraft 6pc being bugged, sword spec (which used to always be #1 afaik) is spoken about very negatively in the other outdated forum posts.

I'm focusing on maces because the main hand and off hand can be puchased off the AH, but if sword spec has been improved or further tested, then I'd imagine krol blade or dalrends are what I should be gunning for. So what's the deal with sword spec nowadays?

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Glonz
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Re: Rogue BiS List/Spec Question

#7 » Post by Glonz » 13 May 2016 11:23

From what I've heard, (apparently) sword spec replicates the damage of the source that has procced the sword spec talent (like poison or a bleed for example) which results in a DPS loss most of the time. I can neither confirm nor deny this. Other sources say that sword spec isn't proccing often enough. Honestly, I have no idea which one of these claims is true or not.

This won't really matter anyway, since most of your main hands as a rogue will be swords or axes in current content. There are almost no maces with higher topend damage than swords/axes/daggers anyway (at least I can't think of any at the top of my head when it comes to latest raid content like BWL or AQ).

Dal'Rends MH > Krol, however, Krol Blade is something nice to start with though.

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Mordaiyne
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Re: Rogue BiS List/Spec Question

#8 » Post by Mordaiyne » 13 May 2016 11:28

Ah true, mace spec will be obsolete after my first few raids lol, may as well work on getting dal'tends for the set bonus, start off my level 60 journey with a Krol if there's one cheap enough! Ty for the responses

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Flooded
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Re: Rogue BiS List/Spec Question

#9 » Post by Flooded » 13 May 2016 11:34

Glonz wrote:From what I've heard, (apparently) sword spec replicates the damage of the source that has procced the sword spec talent (like poison or a bleed for example) which results in a DPS loss most of the time. I can neither confirm nor deny this. Other sources say that sword spec isn't proccing often enough. Honestly, I have no idea which one of these claims is true or not.
Sword/HoJ proc is actually reported incorrectly on damage meters like Recount. It is working properly.

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Mordaiyne
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Re: Rogue BiS List/Spec Question

#10 » Post by Mordaiyne » 13 May 2016 11:41

Interesting, HoJ is a fun trinket, does it still have the extra swing proc effect in wotlk, or just AP? Also why does your name sound familiar Flooded, hearthstone, or some other game perhaps?

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Relina
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Re: Rogue BiS List/Spec Question

#11 » Post by Relina » 13 May 2016 12:04

Flooded wrote:
Glonz wrote:From what I've heard, (apparently) sword spec replicates the damage of the source that has procced the sword spec talent (like poison or a bleed for example) which results in a DPS loss most of the time. I can neither confirm nor deny this. Other sources say that sword spec isn't proccing often enough. Honestly, I have no idea which one of these claims is true or not.
Sword/HoJ proc is actually reported incorrectly on damage meters like Recount. It is working properly.
Recount only reports a collection of the data parsed from the combat log, since recount tracks which attacks procc'd the extra attacks it flags them as such, which it did on retail too, but there is still a bug with the talent.
Atm on TW/PW if an offhand weapon strike procs the talent, the extra attack damage uses the offhand weapons damage range value, while on retail the extra attack is always done using the damage range of the weapon in the main hand.
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