Prot pally single target threat

[Fitzpatrick]

Sorry, Seal of Wisdom. You would be using BoSanc obviously.

I dont know what to tell you but I have 0 mana issues in 5-mans and Kara, and I usually run SoC or SoV. I used to, when I had starter gear (didnt avoid much and had to fight hard for threat) especially against caster mobs or if there was a disc priest. Thats why I say it will get better with gear. Perhaps you could link to your character and someone could see if there are issues.

[Scen]

If I use seal of wisdom then I'm losing my main (non aoe) damage source. Having to use Seal of wisdom and Judgement of wisdom is way too much just to keep up on mana. Getting mana back when I'm tanking 5+ mobs is easy but when I'm against one then I go oom fairly quick. Theres nothing you can suggest to fix it unless you suggest taking int and mana per 5... which a lot of the paladin tanking gear set has even though i still need to prioritise strength/spellpower. WOTLK prot paladin is clearly based around divine plea and struggles without it.

[Fitzpatrick]

I dont have mana issues nor Divine Plea, so clearly thats false. I also dont use any mp5 gear.

[Dunkelstein]

WOTLK prot paladin is clearly based around divine plea and struggles without it.

As far as I'm aware, the only mana regeneration prot paladins had in true TBC, that they don't have on Primal, are mana pots being available multiple times per fight. Not 100% sure, though.

As for problems with not being hit as OT.... it's sad but that's just how paladins always worked. Imo their other quirks more than make up for it, though.

[Scen]

I dont have mana issues nor Divine Plea, so clearly thats false. I also dont use any mp5 gear.

Because you use judgement of wisedom and seal of wisdom together. Sacrifcing your strongest single target dps spell.

As far as I'm aware, the only mana regeneration prot paladins had in true TBC, that they don't have on Primal, are mana pots being available multiple times per fight. Not 100% sure, though.

This isn't TBC patch though. Their spell costs and cooldowns were different.

[Fitzpatrick]

Youre not listening, Scen. I said if your gear is weak and you have mana issues you could use seal of Wisdom (4% mana return most white hits). Ive also said I use SoC and SoV personally. I cant remember off the top of my head, but I think my Block/Dodge/Parry is near 100% with HS up so BoSanc and 1/2 in the mana-from-heals is more than enough mana to hold threat for me.

[jetteroo]

Scen - i suggest u do not use any of the paladin TBC set gear. With WOTLK mechanics, sp on gear is useless. Focus on Str/+hit gear for threat (i.e. like a warrior) becos touched by light gives u sp from str. Make sure your avoidance is above 102.4% (search internet for that macro that tells u what it is with HS on).

if you are fighting only 1 mob, u dun need to cast anything other JOW and make sure SOV reaches 5 stacks on that mob, while keeping holy shield up.

When fighting multiple mobs, use SOV as well - change targets often to keep as much as possible, keep as many stacks on as many mobs as possible. Look for some hit items that will help u miss less so that u can get back more mana from JOW and also increase SOV stacks on mobs.

If you lose aggro on the mob, use RD and that single target taunt instead of using AS. AS isnt meant to be used unless you have to i.e u lost aggro on an untauntable boss.

[Almsivi]

It's getting quite offtopic. Either you stop or I'll need to move topic to guide section

[Fitzpatrick]

Ya guys. Stop talking about Prot Paladins in this Prot Paladin thread.

[natnat123]

Guys, even if paladin single target threat is fine. all it needs is to be a little closer to warrior and druid single target threat. THATS IT, none of all the extra shit everyone has been talking about. all we need to do is find a way to make them a little closer to the other tank classes, to make it more fair. all the extra shit thats being talked about is just an endless debate of shit and irrelevant information.

[natnat123]

And if you want threat data from Anyone. I would say the Best person to ask for that would be Holyzone in murmur. probably the best geared prot pally on the server

[Scen]

People saying it's off topic or irrelevant seem confused. This thread was started to try to get buff's to prot pally single target threat generation. Mana and abilties directly relate to that. It would be nice if some raiding prot tanks would join in the conversation but how many are there currently?

@ Jetteroo
I don't have much of a problem with AoE (unless they're multiple spellcasters with no where to LoS) and auto attacking different targets means you don't get the benfit from Judgement. Saying that the only thing I should use against single target is auto attack and use judgement sounds like awful gameplay.

@ Jetteroo and Dunkelstein
Do you think really Prot Palladins don't need any kind of buff/change then?

[Dunkelstein]

@Dunkelstein
Do you think really Prot Palladins don't need any kind of buff/change then?

No. As I've said, I am not an expert. Just trying to point out what I do know and raise different questions. I would have to play a prot paladin myself or see someone who I already know the playstily of to be able to vote +1/-1.

What I take away as a bystander is this:
Prot Paladin's kit (in terms of spells and effects) is fine. The way spells work (Holy Shield, Avenger's Shield etc.) is fine, cooldowns or stacks of Holy Shield and so on should not be changed.

The problem with single target threat seems to be either not being able to generate enough threat or spending too much mana to do so.

[...]mana cost of Avenger's Shield and Consecration was reduced mainly so players dont fear to spam them while tanking 1 target and attempting to build aggro as an off tank, hopefully this will help out.

Same goes for RF, if it is needed it could be increased again, its seems that is the safest way to buff paladin threat.

This was already established, it's just a matter of tuning it.

This post is going in circles and quite offtopic. How do you expect anyone to form a clear opinion on this heap and get anywhere?
If anyone actually has a clear-cut idea then I'd say abandon this thread and make another suggestion post where people can share their opinion rather than brainstorm.
And keep using this thread or a new post in the Paladin class forum for brainstorming.

[jetteroo]

@Dunkel and all

I already analysed the situation and laid out the issues

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=37958&start=60

And proposed possible solutions that would have the least impact at unbalancing other specs within the paladin class.

Unfortunately this involves tweaking talents which developers feedback is too tricky to do at this point. The easier way is to buff spells unique to that specific spec but unfortunately there isn't any except maybe holy and avengers shield. Which doesn't really just affect single target threat but affects aoe threat.

Buffing RF is "safe" but wud make aoe tanking too op(?), And honestly isn't the most efficient for the entire raid to work.

The current PTR tweak was to buff sov dot threat which while possible doesn't help make the raid more efficient I.e the raid has to be less efficient per se to accommodate the prot paladin. (I.e. a prot warrior and ret paladin is stronger for raid DPS Vs a prot paladin and arms warrior)

That's my analysis of the entire situation.

#Scen maybe you can send me a private message let discuss this offline

[Fitzpatrick]

Adding threat to SoV would effect rets. Seems pretty poorly thought out.