Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

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Vaxsysl
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Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#1 » Post by Vaxsysl » 27 Jan 2015 05:52

The guide was edited many times since I posted it here. I don't have the time available to make it readable on forums. Check the word document on google drive.

Cheers.
Last edited by Vaxsysl on 05 Jul 2016 03:41, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#2 » Post by Vaxsysl » 27 Jan 2015 05:53

Because one post was not enough.
Last edited by Vaxsysl on 05 Jul 2016 03:43, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#3 » Post by aceman611 » 27 Jan 2015 06:35

Nice one Seljo. Now of course, I'll have to add my paladin guide here xD
Smeldor - Ret/Holy Paladin - The Original Dorf
Ivanka - DW Frost DPS/Blood Tank - Suffers from Dorf envy.
Dumboldorf - Dorf fire mage (Yes they exist!)
Smellycat - What are they feeding you? Currently lots of smelly scourge minions.

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Fastor
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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#4 » Post by Fastor » 27 Jan 2015 13:12

Mkay. l can say lm now not same as l was before l start reading. There are some stuff that just dont fit.
Oh, and you didnt noted idea of rotation, probably that is why you dont understand why am l obsessed with haste even on fire.

Ok lets start with corrections.
Arcane Subtlety - while l agree that at high end of gears its minimum to have 1/2 and optimum 2/2, new lvl 80 mages can go without this talent.
Arcane Focus - you explained trick with hit ring very nice, but if without it, player still have over 17%, he can start removing points from this.
Student of the Mind - if mage that is still gearing or went into Haste+Spirit setup instead Haste+Crit, he should use this talent, for both Crit and MP5. If someone forgot, we mages convert Spirit into Crit.
Frost Warding has a chance to regen your mana when you use it, and it also increases your frost resistance (the one which is most wanted in WotLK).
Frost Warding - increase Frost resistance of your Ice Armor, not increase of you direct. So you need to remove Molten Armor to embrace that bonus frost resist, just skip those words. :)
About mana benefit from Frost Warding, that is correct. When l finally convinced Jassa to use it instead of Ice Shards, she switched back to Shards calling me crazy, on other side Ubal is very grateful.
Since AoE on Arcane suck, people have option will they suck 4% less or get this:
Image

Having 1400 haste on Arcane is nice said, but still you didnt said Idea of rotation for Arcane so, people wont understand much.
Idea of Arcane is to do three AB and start fourth AB during T10P2 proc without using Hero/BL, Icy Veins, Potion, or any other speed modificator. That way player would do more casts in same time as they would with skipping this rule.
Also when using Icy Veins or similar, they should do all four AB and start AM during T10P2 proc, that will make best time for Arcane rotation. Add PoM before AB, following Arcane Power during Mirror Images and you get Ultimate Arcane rotation.

PoM (Arcane Potency)before AM works, but there is trick to make it work and that is why Arcane player must keep long distance from target. Since Arcane Potency buff while it exist gives benefit to missile, you need to fire out all five missiles before first one hit target to get benefit for all of them, since it last until first missile hit target.

Oh, and there is two setup for mage gear. Haste+Crit and Haste+Spirit. Differences are that while standing in spot and just dps target, H+C will outdps H+S, while at running around like PP, H+S have way less chances to OOM. Also H+C is spec that doesnt need Student of the Mind talent. It is like 8%crit vs 250MP5 (example not accurate). So yea, Arcane do depend bit on Critical.

FFB spec (the one you were convincing me before that is better than FB) is not pure rubbish. In truth, l only recently saw its benefit. That benefit is that its probably best thing for new lvl 80 mage with low gear due to reasons of 3% hit rating, and T9 is like build for that spec.
In situations where using LB on multiple targets is something you can do, aim to do one LB, one Pyroblast. You might „clog“ and waste Hot Streaks if you spam LBs only. Additionally, if they need to be killed as well, consider using Scorch between LBs when applying them (you don't have to do it if LB/Pyro take all your instant time, rather cast one Flamestrike at those adds to dps them the most).
Forget this at all since (quote from my topic in test area)
Fastor wrote:Green - it works.
Orange - it works with bugs, part of it works, works wrong way, something is wrong.
Red - not working.
Blue - need more test, confirmation, more info how it should and is it like it.


Hot Streak
Each time you do two critical hits in row with Fireball, Fire Blast, Scorch, Living Bomb or FFB you gain Hot Streak buff.
Hot Streak buff makes Pyroblast spell instant cast.

Works as long as it EXIST.
Consumed on use.
Not consumed when having T8 4P Bonus.
Bugs are that its not consumed on use but its consumed when it hit target creating several other breaks.
Also due to mechanic of T8 P4 Bonus, buff should keep Pyroblast spell instant as long as its on, currently Pyroblast can be instant only once and since buff is not properly consumed it can be refreshed by another double critical hit but wont make Pyroblast instant again.
Also as that refresh occur, T10 P4 Bonus wont trigger too. (fixed by Gecko32)

Brain Freeze (waiting server crash to apply fix and test it again, GG Gecko32 again)
When your spells apply chill effect, chance that Brain Freeze buff will trigger is 15%.
Brain Freeze buff makes FFB and Fireball spells instant cast.
Brain Freeze buff makes FFB and Fireball spells cost no mana.
Works as long as it EXIST.
Consumed on use.

Not consumed when having T8 4P Bonus.

Bugs are that its not consumed on use but its consumed when it hit target creating several other breaks.
Also due to mechanic of T8 P4 Bonus, buff should keep FFB and Fireball spells instant and cost no mana as long as its on, currently FFB and Fireball spells can be instant and cost no mana only once and since buff is not properly consumed it can be refreshed by another double critical hit but wont make FFB and Fireball spells instant and mana free again.

Also as that refresh occur, T10 P4 Bonus wont trigger too.
The way you said to keep LB up all time, sounded like refresh it before its over, same like Scorch :P
Fire Blast - Yes, dont use it instead of Fireball, but if you need to run around and not having Hot Streak proc and LB is good, USE IT! Better than nothing.

About Scrolls yea, well they fixed like year ago... (Intellect scroll not stack with mage Intellect buff and Spirit scroll not stack with Priest Spirit buff)
Why recommend 10.000 gold ring :\ They better by BQL neck if they can find.

Oh and yes, lot of people with starting gear doing mistake because Gear Score. When you have BoE shoulders and 4 pieces of T9, that is nice. But as soon as you get T10 item, dont make having BoE shoulders and 3 pieces of t9. Switch BoE shoulders for T9 to have T9P4 bonus as it is giving more Crit than shoulders with 2x20crit gems. When you get second piece of T10, you can switch back to them. This multiple switching is all about performance over GS.

Conclusion: Nice idea, Had to be done, Better you than me (lazy:P ), Fine grouped, Several errors, Need few more things.
8/10
Last edited by Fastor on 27 Jan 2015 13:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#5 » Post by Fastor » 27 Jan 2015 13:16

@Kor with deleted post :P

Yes, l made that as simple as can guide as Quick manual while l was mad. One like this bigger should exist.

*lf anyone wonder why was l mad, it was because GS6400+ mage was teaching new mage that she need over 20% hit rating so mobs could not DODGE AND PARRY spells. He is also doing less dmg than he should with his gear >.>
Wont say name, l just hope he will recognize himself and get better.

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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#6 » Post by Vaxsysl » 27 Jan 2015 14:25

I just copy pasted this at three in the morning when it was concluded that I won't sleep again. I'll edit it tonight after training, or tomorrow morning, depends when and if I'll sleep. There's more miscellaneous information missing, and most of the guide is aimed at progressive play, so I left out one third of it (i doubt players here are interested in pre-T7 raiding BiS for both spec, T7, T8 and T9 BiS lists, but I could copy paste them as well. Might as well actually, since some explanations are not present because of that. Oh well, tonight or tomorrow, it'll be edited.

Thanks for the Arcane part Fastor. I really just never seriously bothered with it, no matter how much more I enjoy the nature of arcane, two button is just...ugh. Fast or not, it's just two with no interactivity, god damn it! :D
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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#7 » Post by Koriach » 27 Jan 2015 15:27

Hah Fastor! I deleted post cause after I post it I realized there were so many things to say and I was lazy so I said I would just do it later but you beat me to it. :S

Only thing I want to add is to keep in mind that alliance has draenei's in group so that is 1% extra hit and that if you want to make a list of BIS items you should make it for available content since RS HC isn't opened. And I don't know for arcane cause I don't like playing arcane but for Fire mage DFO HC seems better than CTS N from RS 25.

And the FFB vs FB/TTW spec it really depends on the RNG. I think I am almost the only one who still plays FFB spec with end game gear and I got no problem on being in at least top 5 as a FFB mage and this depends on Marrow spikes Vile gases and the fact that Sindra hates me and i get UM 90% of the time no matter the char I am on. D:

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Fastor
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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#8 » Post by Fastor » 27 Jan 2015 16:04

Yes, true, l forgot to add that comment. Well on his BiS list, he did not really point out is it HC or not, but we can only presume he ment it. Only he can answer did he.
But, lets imagine he didnt so if we go combo ICC25HC and RS25N we actually get proper setup. Items trinket and wrist from RS25N can be BiS, but cloak cant as VDHC is better. Also l found way around to use LadyHC wrist so its only trinket needed from RS25N.

l believe you can recognize items by icon (ofc all this is Haste+Crit set what l talked about before)

Image

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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#9 » Post by Vaxsysl » 27 Jan 2015 16:22

Ofc I meant heroic items, what else? I'm not talking about current BiS with no RShc, I'm talking overtime. I'm not going over to argue whether one item is better than the other when one is hc and the other one is not (such as STS and DFO), I'm talking about the actual 277/284 items. If one wants a list of heroic versus normal version combinations, be my guest to make it, I personally find it pointless. This is the BEST BiS list for crit+haste itemization, with notes about tiny details, such as that draenei 1% so they can use haste+crit ring instead of crit+hit one, and if one wants more crit to equip those few crit+spirit offset, and I added one cosmetic note about the cloak if one wants to keep the set and that's that.

FFB spec is fine, TTW is just better. Although, as high haste is accumulated, difference between casts stop being 0.15 difference and become 0.10 if not 0.8 with all raid buffs. Icy Veins is Icy Veins, but with PNL and STS/DFO up, Fireball and Pyro crits will do noticeable more damage than your FFB and Pyro than normally and way higher ignite. My record is almost 126k or so ignite, what of the time I was taking SS for data evaluation. Don't mess with full raid buffs and all those LB explosions with boss under 35% HP, those in-air Fireballs and pyroblasts feed ignite like a hungry vortex.
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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#10 » Post by Fastor » 27 Jan 2015 16:28

Fren, you missing point. We wanted BiS list of items that you can get on TW :) You currently cant get RS25HC.

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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#11 » Post by Vaxsysl » 27 Jan 2015 16:36

Fastor wrote:Ok lets start with corrections.
Arcane Subtlety - while l agree that at high end of gears its minimum to have 1/2 and optimum 2/2, new lvl 80 mages can go without this talent.
I just noticed this. You're wrong. Consider that the mage might go with the tank of equal if not a bit less gearing. If Arcane mage has the BiS gear I listed, the mage will do quite a bit of damage. Give him all the mentioned raid buffs, the mage will want 1/2 in it at least. Doing around 12k minimal damage on burst without threat reduction is painful. This is really noticeable with full T7 BiS and doing OS3D, arcane dps skyrockets and drakes go down really fast. This situation is no different, as stats are nearly as good as having full T9 BiS and unleashing that fury is...pew pew. Threat reduction is always wanted, especially if the tank is just good or below that. Rather be safe than sorry, and prepared for the future nonetheless.
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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#12 » Post by Vaxsysl » 27 Jan 2015 16:40

Fastor wrote:Fren, you missing point. We wanted BiS list of items that you can get on TW :) You currently cant get RS25HC.
And my point is that LOGIC says 284>277>271>264 for all situations as long as the item is ideal for the spec. But sure, I'll edit it under gearing notes, there's a paragraph missing as it is, so two will be added.

Edit update: Ugh, I'll just do it as I come home from training, cba doing it now.
Last edited by Vaxsysl on 27 Jan 2015 16:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#13 » Post by Fastor » 27 Jan 2015 16:45

Vaxsysl wrote:
Fastor wrote:Ok lets start with corrections.
Arcane Subtlety - while l agree that at high end of gears its minimum to have 1/2 and optimum 2/2, new lvl 80 mages can go without this talent.
I just noticed this. You're wrong. Consider that the mage might go with the tank of equal if not a bit less gearing. If Arcane mage has the BiS gear I listed, the mage will do quite a bit of damage. Give him all the mentioned raid buffs, the mage will want 1/2 in it at least. Doing around 12k minimal damage on burst without threat reduction is painful. This is really noticeable with full T7 BiS and doing OS3D, arcane dps skyrockets and drakes go down really fast. This situation is no different, as stats are nearly as good as having full T9 BiS and unleashing that fury is...pew pew. Threat reduction is always wanted, especially if the tank is just good or below that. Rather be safe than sorry, and prepared for the future nonetheless.
Krenulo prepucavanje u sporazumevanju.

When l said in first part that minimum is 1/2 and optimum is 2/2 l ment on your part when you just said can go 1/2 in guide. Second about it you just repeated in your response what l ment.
As for 0/2 for new 80s, l still stick to it as even new 80 tank can hold that low dmg. On TC, noone will go under T9 gear. And when they do get T9, than they should get 1/2 or even 2/2 as you request.

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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#14 » Post by mcheka » 28 Mar 2015 20:39

Couple of months late to the party, but really, really nice and detailed guide. This is great, and I'm actually keeping in mind much of what you wrote here as I gear up my fairly fresh-80 fire mage.


I want to open a discussion about a relevant (and potentially important) fire mage issue, risking a slight thread hijack (sorry!):
Vaxsysl wrote:You can’t reach 100% crit “legally” – T9 (2) was supposed to work with your current spirit, not the spirit that was at hand when casting Molten Armor decided the increase. But if that “bug” prevails, equipping all the best spirit items and gemming them with Sparkling Majestic Zircons (+20Spirit) and pure crit into real gear can get your Fireball to be 100%.
Does anyone have proof or evidence that prebuffing Molten Armor with 2pc T9 would let you keep the 70% spirit-to-crit conversion instead of the normal 55% on retail? I did a little digging, and for the most part found conflicting information.

For example, on another private server, a guide (link to guide) states:
Molten Armor gives a base of 35% spirit to Crit Rating, 55% when Glyphed and 70% with 2p T9. Note that you can buff Molten Armor with T9 equip and then swap out the T9 pieces and retain the extra 15%. This was also doable on Retail WoW as well and was never announced to be intentional or a bug.
On page 12 of the same guide, someone writes:
A note: You can no longer benefit from the 2pt9 bonus after you remove the gear.
So it seems it was fixed (recently, in fact - 2 weeks ago at the time of my writing this post), either intentionally or unintentionally, on that private server, although this still not proof that it was like that on retail.


============


I also found a source that is pretty strong evidence that the bug was present on retail at some point, but I'm not sure if it was in the final 3.3.5 patch that went live. and therefore to be Blizzlike, this should also be the correct behaviour on TrueWoW. (link to page 53 of Elitist Jerks thread, dated ~May 2010)

In case the link eventually goes bad, I'll copy-paste posts from that thread here, with relevant info in bold.
I was under the impression that the point was not to acquire a spirit set, but rather that the spirit currently on your gear could be better utilized. Regardless of the amount of spirit you currently have, having the 70% instead of 55% of it turned into crit rating would always be an upgrade.

On a separate note, I fail to see why the molten armor buff that's already on you would be changed by merely changing two pieces of gear. I could see why changing specs might cause such behavior since buffs are usually wiped clean after changing specs although in live this doesn't apply to molten armor. Essentially all that's happening is that you have Molten Armor A which can only be cast with two piece t9 equipped, and Molten Armor B which is only cast when you don't have the t9 equipped. The % of spirit to crit should not dynamically change depending on whether you have the t9 equipped or not.

As an easily testable example, cast any shield in game that's dependent upon spell power. Let's assume that it absorbs 10,000 damage. Even if you take off all your gear, that shield will continue to absorb 10,000 damage for its duration. The amount of absorption would only change if you were to recast the shield altogether after losing or gaining spell power (ignoring the "a more powerful spell is active" annoyance).
To this, two people replied:
So far everyone that has tested the t9 bug have confirmed higher crit rates.

prehaps you are not aware of how to perform it?.

Equip 2pc T9:
Put on MA:
Switch to your normal gear:

you have to do that every time you buff MA.
This is incorrect. When you cast Molten Armor with 2pc T9, you get the bonus'd molten armor cast on you. From there, molten armor changes with the spirit you gain/lose.
Someone else said that Blizz fixed it in 3.3.5 (posted 25 May 2010):
Kind of pointless discussion and analysis, the bug was fixed in 3.3.5 so from that, one can assume it's the genuine article.

However the horrible part is how they chose to fix it; now every time you change a piece of gear Molten Armor is removed, and by every I mean ANY piece, you change your weapon it's removed, your of hand it's removed.

EDIT: even worse, every time my mage enters an instance, teleports or other wise experiences PLAYER_ENTERING_WORLD event Molten Armor gets removed. Could you spell swatting a fly with sledgehammer.

This starts a new era of extreme annoyance of recasting MA every time you use the teleporter in an instance. I posted a bug report on the eu PTR forums, is someone could repost that in the US forums as well it could be helpful.
But it seems like that fix was only on the PTR and never made it to live, as evidenced by the person who replied to this on 25 July, 2010:
Just for the record (for people going through old posts and wondering why we talk about something that never happened), the fix was reverted on the PTR and never went live. Most likely, Blizzard realized that the fix had too many side-effects and the cure was worse than the disease -- something several of us pointed out on the PTR forum.
Does anyone know for sure whether or not the T9 2pc prebuff trick worked 3.3.5 retail patch?
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Fastor
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Re: Mage PvE guide for Wrath of the Lich King

#15 » Post by Fastor » 28 Mar 2015 20:43

l can tell you something. We already had that conversation and developer who attempted to introduce "fix" went berserk after l stepped in since before that we already had talk about it. More than once.

In short story, currently trick with T9 is possible. We keep it like it and we dont talk about it to prevent more flaming. Ty for doing same.

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