The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

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Criticat
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The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#1 » Post by Criticat » 07 Jan 2017 03:21

Hello everyone, this is a simple guide for kitty dps PVE by Criticat
First of all, feral DPS has a list of priority instead of a fixed rotation and with practice it will get easier.
To start off..
Talents
This is a pure pve talent http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#0ZEGMcfrz0eR0huVkbAczb
Keep in mind: You will have 2 points that you can spend where ever fits you best in this case instead of [Improved Leader of the Pack].
Glyphs
Major Glyphs:
Glyph of Savage Roar
Glyph of Shred
Glyph of Berserk

I Personally use Glyph of Berserk because I rather have a higher burst. Or you can use Glyph of Rip Although, I don't think it's as useful since we already have an additional 6 seconds from Glyph of Shred. To explain this further more, in 25 heroics you will actually have enough time to use berserk more than once (depending on fight) the damage done by your burst (In this case, longer burst) will override the damage done by rip in the additional 4 seconds of the glyph.
In my opinion Glyph of berserk>Glyph of Rip. However, you get to choose whatever fits you best. ^_^

Minor Glyphs (Suggested): It depends on your personal reference, but here are some
Glyph of Dash - You might need to run every once in a while :D
Glyph of Unburdened Rebirth - You don't won't to be that fail who realizes he doesn't have reagents during the fight, right? :D
Stats
Strength
Gives the most attack power, should never be the case except if you're fully capped on hit, armor penetration, expertise, and crit.

Agility
Increases a druid dodge chance, attack power, crit, and armor. Best used when low geared, then when you have armor penetration, hit, and exp.

When to stack Agility?
When you have armor penetration, hit, and expertise capped. But NOT crit capped.

Attack Power
Increases the druid bleeds damage, and melee damage.

Critical Strike
76% - White Crit Cap (+ 24% Glancing Blows = 100%)
79.8% - Ferocious Bite Crit Cap (+ 25% Crit from Talent - 4.8% Crit Suppression = 100%)
You should have around 60-70% Crit unbuffed with decent gears in cat form.

Hit Rating
Cap is 8% Hit for 83 level targets. I personally go with 7% and put a goat (Draenei) with me in group (If you're alliance).

Expertise
You get around 10 expertise from Primal Precision Also you get expertise from legs in tier 10.
Expertise cap - 26

Haste
Although, as important it is to kitty's since most of our damage is based on melee damage. You still should never be stacking haste rating.

Armor penetration
When should you start stacking armor penetration? And is it better than agility?
So Agility increases your bleed damage. Armor penetration reduces enemy armor increasing your physical damage, the most important thing you have to know is that most of Kitty dps is done by melee attacks.
You should start stacking armor penetration when you have 50% from gears which is about 700 Armor penetration.

Over all, your stats priority should be like this Hit rating>Armor Penetration>Expertise>Critical Strike

Gems and enchant
Meta: Relentless Earthsiege Diamond
Red: Fractured Cardinal Ruby/Delicate Cardinal Ruby
Blue: Nightmare Tear
Yellow: Rigid King's Amber/Accurate Ametrine/Glinting Ametrine
Head: Arcanum of Torment
Shoulders: Greater Inscription of the Axe
Back: +22 Agility
Chest: +10 All stats
Wrist: Greater Assault
Weapon: Berserking
Hands: +20 Agility / +20 hit (Low geared)
Legs: Icescale Leg Armor
Feet: +16 Agility / Icewalker (Low geared)

Professions Overall, every profession has its benefits, but personally I like to use Engineering for Hyperspeed Accelerators and Flexweave Underlay (Although not much to stats, but a good utility especially for pvp) and Blacksmithing for an additional socket on both Hand and Wrist.
Note: Engineering+Tailoring (Swordguard Embroidery) work out best.

ROTATION!
There is no fixed rotation for a feral druid. But there's a list of priority
After applying Faerie Fire (Feral)
Savage Roar > Mangle > Rip > Rake > Shred > Ferocious Bite
Kitty dps is not about spamming spells. Your energy is your girlfriend, the less you pressure her, the more she gives you. You need to keep your Savage Roar, Mangle,FF up at all times and reapply your dots when they're off (Completely) ASAP. So as you can conclude your rotation is based on a set of PRIORITY, and ain't no such a thing as 1234.


Notes:
Berserk: This is what gives the feral druids the highest burst in game. Never use it when you're below 60 energy. Squish in x2 FBs.
Tiger's Fury: Also increases bleeds damage when applied during use, adds 60 energy when used.
Ferocious Bite: As you get better with the timing, you will be able to squish a FB every once in a while. HINT: Drains up to 75 energy, so make sure you use it on exactly 35 or a lil above that.
Mangle: Apply once every 1 minute. Never spam unless you can't get behind the boss.
Savage Roar: Top priority
Clearcasting: When ever you get a clearcasting, use a shred. Note: FB Will still take energy.
Cower: Causes no damage but lowers your threat, useful since Kitty's generate high agro.

Addons!
Droodfocus: https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/dro ... les/437151
Or Badkitty: https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/bad ... les/432074



Please feel free to ask questions, and shoot what you think! -
Last edited by Criticat on 10 Jan 2017 03:42, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#2 » Post by blagovest_tonev » 07 Jan 2017 09:51

Thank you for spending your time in writing this guide. There are some things I would change, though.
Criticat wrote:Keep in mind: You will have 2 points that you can spend where ever fits you best in this case instead of [Improved Leader of the Pack].
  • Instead of dropping points here, I would use Feral Instinct 1/3, it won't affect the raid while the other one does affect it.
Criticat wrote:Rip Although, I don't think it's as useful
  • I can't agree here at all, simply because Rip is our strongest DoT - longer it lasts, the better.
  • Go for Agility when you get ArP capped and not for Strength.
  • Your Gems and enchant links are broken (at least for me).
  • This is the "rotation" I do: FF > Mangle > Rake > SR > Shred until 5 CP > Rip. This way SR lasts longer which is a DPS increase. Note that this is the basic DPS cycle, the rest is landing FB when possible and refresh DoTs when needed, although I don't recommend FB to people who have just began playing kitty, it may cost them their whole energy pool. You mentioned when to use Berserk, so not including it.

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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#3 » Post by Longi » 07 Jan 2017 10:01

when one of the best PVP kitty is trying to PVE :D

on TW ... hit rating 6%, more is waste, you will never miss with 6%
on TW ... expertise 24 , more is waste
on TW ... crit 70% in cat form full raid buffs, you will jump to around 76% with activated trinkets, enchants and so on ...
on TW ... Str... da hell why ? kitties was always agility clases :D but im oldschool
on TW ... haste around 400


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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#4 » Post by blagovest_tonev » 07 Jan 2017 10:54

60% Critical self-buffed shall be enough, and you don't have to worry about Haste since our gear gives us enough.

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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#5 » Post by Eronox » 07 Jan 2017 11:35

I do like this guide, it shows a way to play it and the authors actual thoughts about it. Well done :)
.

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But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#6 » Post by mcheka » 07 Jan 2017 16:30

Nice guide there Criticat,

I'll say a few words on your guide. First off, all questions of spec, glyph, and gear comparison are best answered using Toskk's calculator. It's by far the most accurate modeling/simulation tool for kitties in 3.3.5, better than both SimCraft and Rawr. My answers mostly come from lots of time spent with these tools. Personal experience is not statistically significant, as most changes you make to glyphs, spec, and gems will change your DPS to something within an expected variance, so if you really want to min/max you have no choice but to use these tools.

Glyph of Rip is better than Glyph of Berserk in almost all raiding situations except in silly fights like VDW.

Strength is in absolutely no circumstance anything you should ever gem, not even a single point. Strength does become the best stat... but only at gear levels far beyond what's available in all of WotLK.

Haste is the top stat at extremely high gearing levels. So yes, you should absolutely be stacking haste at near-BiS gear levels. It only sucks on fights with lots of adds and target switching, and even then it's quite decent. Rule of thumb: If you have Oathbinder HC, haste is your top stat. Haste starts to overtake crit at roughly 6,2k GS, so for most cats raiding ICC, the stat priority looks like this:

ArP > Agility > Expertise (until cap) = Hit (until cap) >= Haste > Crit > Strength

At the absolute highest gearing levels, your stat priorities will look like this:

ArP > Haste >= Expertise (until cap) >= Hit (until cap) > Agility >= Strength > Crit

I'll emphasize again, while strength actually may beat agility point for point when making a local gemming choice at high gear, you can always regem/change enchants such that you'll end up with higher DPS gemming agility, than simply gemming strength. I speak from having enumerated all possible combinations.

Engineering+JC or Engineering+Tailoring are the best professions. I can't remember exactly which is better, but they're within a few DPS points of each other.
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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#7 » Post by Criticat » 07 Jan 2017 19:57

mcheka wrote:Nice guide there Criticat,

I'll say a few words on your guide. First off, all questions of spec, glyph, and gear comparison are best answered using Toskk's calculator. It's by far the most accurate modeling/simulation tool for kitties in 3.3.5, better than both SimCraft and Rawr. My answers mostly come from lots of time spent with these tools. Personal experience is not statistically significant, as most changes you make to glyphs, spec, and gems will change your DPS to something within an expected variance, so if you really want to min/max you have no choice but to use these tools.

Glyph of Rip is better than Glyph of Berserk in almost all raiding situations except in silly fights like VDW.

Strength is in absolutely no circumstance anything you should ever gem, not even a single point. Strength does become the best stat... but only at gear levels far beyond what's available in all of WotLK.

Haste is the top stat at extremely high gearing levels. So yes, you should absolutely be stacking haste at near-BiS gear levels. It only sucks on fights with lots of adds and target switching, and even then it's quite decent. Rule of thumb: If you have Oathbinder HC, haste is your top stat. Haste starts to overtake crit at roughly 6,2k GS, so for most cats raiding ICC, the stat priority looks like this:

ArP > Agility > Expertise (until cap) = Hit (until cap) >= Haste > Crit > Strength

At the absolute highest gearing levels, your stat priorities will look like this:

ArP > Haste >= Expertise (until cap) >= Hit (until cap) > Agility >= Strength > Crit

I'll emphasize again, while strength actually may beat agility point for point when making a local gemming choice at high gear, you can always regem/change enchants such that you'll end up with higher DPS gemming agility, than simply gemming strength. I speak from having enumerated all possible combinations.

Engineering+JC or Engineering+Tailoring are the best professions. I can't remember exactly which is better, but they're within a few DPS points of each other.
Thank you for taking your time to reply to my guide, I appreciate that.
First of all, this guide is not based on statistics, it's based on my personal experience. I personally like to use berserk because it would give you a much higher burst. Although, Glyph of Rip is better for longer lasting fights no doubt but berserk on long fights can be used twice which means giving you more dps than what rip would equal to (As in 25 heroics).

The Stats priority in a 100% Blizzlike server would be as I noted. Although, in TW it may differ. In addition, I believe in no case ever you should be stacking haste because our gears give us enough in the mean while if you're fully crit capped you might aswell put some strength gems for a higher melee attack damage. However, either way you go I think it will equal the same benefits because let's say haste gives you more attacks, but strength gives you to the equal amount of damage. It's what you prefer.

As for professions, as I said every profession has it's benefits and I noted what I use for myself, not the best. Although, no doubt engineering + tailoring would be best.
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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#8 » Post by Criticat » 07 Jan 2017 20:03

blagovest_tonev wrote:Thank you for spending your time in writing this guide. There are some things I would change, though.
Criticat wrote:Keep in mind: You will have 2 points that you can spend where ever fits you best in this case instead of [Improved Leader of the Pack].
  • Instead of dropping points here, I would use Feral Instinct 1/3, it won't affect the raid while the other one does affect it.
Criticat wrote:Rip Although, I don't think it's as useful
  • I can't agree here at all, simply because Rip is our strongest DoT - longer it lasts, the better.
  • Go for Agility when you get ArP capped and not for Strength.
  • Your Gems and enchant links are broken (at least for me).
  • This is the "rotation" I do: FF > Mangle > Rake > SR > Shred until 5 CP > Rip. This way SR lasts longer which is a DPS increase. Note that this is the basic DPS cycle, the rest is landing FB when possible and refresh DoTs when needed, although I don't recommend FB to people who have just began playing kitty, it may cost them their whole energy pool. You mentioned when to use Berserk, so not including it.
Thank you for taking your time to read my guide.
Rip is yes our strongest dot, but in 25h fights you will have enough time to use berserk twice which means we get to burst the boss twice, in that case a longer burst would definitely give you a higher dps than what rip would give you Glyph of Berserk > Glyph of Rip in my opinion.

As I noted, you only stack Str if you were fully capped on everything else (Armorpene,hit, exp, and crit). In that case, Str>Agility

Links will be fixed shortly, thank you.
Last edited by Criticat on 10 Jan 2017 03:55, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#9 » Post by Criticat » 07 Jan 2017 20:05

Longi wrote:when one of the best PVP kitty is trying to PVE :D

on TW ... hit rating 6%, more is waste, you will never miss with 6%
on TW ... expertise 24 , more is waste
on TW ... crit 70% in cat form full raid buffs, you will jump to around 76% with activated trinkets, enchants and so on ...
on TW ... Str... da hell why ? kitties was always agility clases :D but im oldschool
on TW ... haste around 400
Thank you for noting that. In a 100% blizzlike server stats should be as I noted. Although, am not fully aware of how that works on TW.
Expertise cap is 26, Str>Agility When you're fully capped on everything else.
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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#10 » Post by Longi » 07 Jan 2017 23:59

Criticat wrote:
Longi wrote:when one of the best PVP kitty is trying to PVE :D

on TW ... hit rating 6%, more is waste, you will never miss with 6%
on TW ... expertise 24 , more is waste
on TW ... crit 70% in cat form full raid buffs, you will jump to around 76% with activated trinkets, enchants and so on ...
on TW ... Str... da hell why ? kitties was always agility clases :D but im oldschool
on TW ... haste around 400
Thank you for noting that. In a 100% blizzlike server stats should be as I noted. Although, am not fully aware of how that works on TW.
Expertise cap is 26, Str>Agility When you're fully capped on everything else.
It is not " nothing " .... this type of guides mostly based on CTRL C + CTRL V .... there is milion of them, just search on google, still same shit. You are playing on TW so give to players tips how it works here, none cares how it works on 100 % Blizzlike server, On 100 % blizzlike server is BIS weapon ench - Black magic, same about that crit cap for FB or hard cap for crit, you cannot get it if you dont stack agility / crit + active trinkets and luck,
about arpen / agility... if you cannot get 1000+ arpen go for agility you will do same or better dmg, only with in the moment you can get close to arpen cap is arpen better than agility. And yea none cares about simulations, ( I do respec people doing this perfect things, its great by some way) but in raid is useless :)

main problem with kitties dps is FB, most of players have no idea how it works and they go out of energy in few seconds, for good dmg you need know " rotation ", stats are not that important ofc if you dont stack intellect or so ... Kitties are about knowledge when to use which ability or spell, you are working with time / energy / boss taktic ... as feral dps you will learn to relax, because burst ( warrior / paladin ) is not the way you play :)


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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#11 » Post by Criticat » 08 Jan 2017 01:18

Longi wrote:
Criticat wrote:
Longi wrote:when one of the best PVP kitty is trying to PVE :D

on TW ... hit rating 6%, more is waste, you will never miss with 6%
on TW ... expertise 24 , more is waste
on TW ... crit 70% in cat form full raid buffs, you will jump to around 76% with activated trinkets, enchants and so on ...
on TW ... Str... da hell why ? kitties was always agility clases :D but im oldschool
on TW ... haste around 400
Thank you for noting that. In a 100% blizzlike server stats should be as I noted. Although, am not fully aware of how that works on TW.
Expertise cap is 26, Str>Agility When you're fully capped on everything else.
It is not " nothing " .... this type of guides mostly based on CTRL C + CTRL V .... there is milion of them, just search on google, still same shit. You are playing on TW so give to players tips how it works here, none cares how it works on 100 % Blizzlike server, On 100 % blizzlike server is BIS weapon ench - Black magic, same about that crit cap for FB or hard cap for crit, you cannot get it if you dont stack agility / crit + active trinkets and luck,
about arpen / agility... if you cannot get 1000+ arpen go for agility you will do same or better dmg, only with in the moment you can get close to arpen cap is arpen better than agility. And yea none cares about simulations, ( I do respec people doing this perfect things, its great by some way) but in raid is useless :)

main problem with kitties dps is FB, most of players have no idea how it works and they go out of energy in few seconds, for good dmg you need know " rotation ", stats are not that important ofc if you dont stack intellect or so ... Kitties are about knowledge when to use which ability or spell, you are working with time / energy / boss taktic ... as feral dps you will learn to relax, because burst ( warrior / paladin ) is not the way you play :)
Re: I said thanks for noting that, not "nothing". Either way, I still go with 26 expertise, and will go for 7% hit rating. However, like I said am not fully aware of how that exactly works on TW even though I've played for a long time on this server. I have almost 5.50% hit rating and I still miss 2-4 times during fights. Also, I think what you said is repetitive and pretty much what I concluded in my guide. And sure if you say so, I copied it from google. :D
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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#12 » Post by Criticat » 08 Jan 2017 01:43

Eronox wrote:I do like this guide, it shows a way to play it and the authors actual thoughts about it. Well done :)
Thanks for the feedback Ero.
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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#13 » Post by Saddie » 08 Jan 2017 03:13

I find it extremely ironic that you of all people are making a feral dps guide, when only thing you've ever done with feral dps is aggroing like your life depends on it while doing less than decent dps(specially for someone as geared as your main is), also, feral doesn't have a rotation? have fun key smashing warrior-style, no wonder why you always performed so poorly.

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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#14 » Post by Criticat » 09 Jan 2017 05:21

Saddie wrote:I find it extremely ironic that you of all people are making a feral dps guide, when only thing you've ever done with feral dps is aggroing like your life depends on it while doing less than decent dps(specially for someone as geared as your main is), also, feral doesn't have a rotation? have fun key smashing warrior-style, no wonder why you always performed so poorly.
Re:
Am extremely honored to hear such a thing. Oh might aswell teach me how to play I kindly ask because I've only been playing for a lil bit, I'd really love to learn some from you.

Just so you know.. no ferals don't have a fixed rotation because your rotation is pretty much dependent on keeping durations up on a set of PRIORITY and not 1234 spell set. I feel dumb even responding to that :lol:

Cheers,
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Re: The Kitty's guide PVE 3.3.5a

#15 » Post by Longi » 09 Jan 2017 05:57

Criticat wrote:
Saddie wrote:I find it extremely ironic that you of all people are making a feral dps guide, when only thing you've ever done with feral dps is aggroing like your life depends on it while doing less than decent dps(specially for someone as geared as your main is), also, feral doesn't have a rotation? have fun key smashing warrior-style, no wonder why you always performed so poorly.
Re:
Am extremely honored to hear such a thing. Oh might aswell teach me how to play I kindly ask because I've only been playing for a lil bit, I'd really love to learn some from you.

Just so you know.. no ferals don't have a fixed rotation because your rotation is pretty much dependent on keeping durations up on a set of PRIORITY and not 1234 spell set. I feel dumb even responding to that :lol:

Cheers,
there is " Rotation " specific for each boss.. lets say. with end-game gear, right stats you will do exactly same thing over and over again. Depend on which boss you fight. If all work correct, you are getting 2 cp per ability use, your energy has good restore and there no shit happens ( all people work with taktic so Tank dont need to " dance " with boss and raid is not improvising )

only difference is that as feral you have to watch more active buffs than other classes and if you have luck and all trinkets, abilities, enchants, and things you can use are activated at once ... it will create aggro Saddie is talking about


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