Read this, please

[Arraj]

Lately there has been to much "noise" over low level twinking, aka 10-19 bracket.
As someone who is mostly responsible for it's activity and promotion I feel like I have to explain few things.

Read following quote which I found very insulting.

Being twink is most hilarious thing that you can do in this game, especially on low levels. Why would you play with xy ammount of spells when you can make it simple and play with 5, and you can 360 noscope lowgeared people. I belive that mostly reason is that those people really suck in this game and they don't belive in themselves that they can actualy learn more and get better. Also I hate twinks because they don't allow people who are leveling to do it via bgs, because it's really damn hard to kill a twink, even if he sucks, because your normal gear is just way too crappy and you can't do much about it. If so much people like this, make a realm for twinks or something, so they can click 4-6 abilities/spells 0-24 and enjoy. Oh wait, there wont be any low geared lower lvl players, oh crap error 404 :s

This is not the only post that got me kinda mad, but it's the one that went over the line and I just couldn't ignore it, sorry.

OK, lets get to the point.

Has anyone played 1.12.1. patch here? Has anyone played caster in that patch here? If yes, than he/she will know what I mean by downranking and having separate presets of action bars just to be able to perform stronger heals with full mana and less but more common heals with 50% or less mana.
Each spell rank was spell for itself. You could actually cast rank 1 lesser heal in endgame content sounds silly but you could do that. Don't make me count the total number of available spells/skills in that patch.

Each following expansion tried only to simplify UI and cut down the number of spells.
Most drastic cut happened in MoP. Talents were geting you only handfull of options in compare to what we have here or on cata.
I've read that WoD is even going to make number of spells/skills even smaller.

What's the point of all this that I'm writing??
Point is that if something is complicated it doesn't mean it's good.

Anyone played Neverwinter? Few skills only, and yet it's best combat i've ever experienced in this genre.
Anyone played Tera? A bit more skills and yet epic combat.
Guild Wars 2 - big choice of spells yet you can only use 5-6 of them.
You gonna say those games suck and that their players aren't capable of playing endgame WoW on wotlk just cuz it has bunch of spells to keybind or even click??

On my rogue I use 23 keybinds, 18 used very frequently in each bg. You think it's impossible? You are so wrong.

I've made custom class out of this rogue. I can root ppl, have pet, make ppl sleep, poison them, shoot rank 1 fireballs, weaken them in many ways, change their appearance, switch weapons depending on what position my opponents stands in, heal myself to 70% of my hp over time, get my personal version of lay on hands spell, do aoe without eng. prof. and alot of weird things that you probably never remember while making such statements.

Ofc, many of these things are doable by other classes too. Thing is that not everyone goes to max out the potential of this level.

I dont really see why so much rage towards people that play this bracket. You think they can't play 80 stuff. Well sorry to disappoint you, but one of best arena players on server have 19s here and find it very fun.
Guy that organized SW camping several times has 2 very strong lv19 characters.
Many members of Warsong Clan are clearing ICC with their respective guilds each week. On alliance side I know that some of raid leaders of top guilds have 19s in The Grim Reapers. If I told you the name of probably best lv19 alliance mage ever, you simply wouldn't believe me. You'd be amazed how much extremely skilled players play this bracket. Warsong Clan's score on pvp stats suffered downfall many times cuz our guys were busy with obligations on something you claim that they CAN'T do.

I asked for lv19 sub forum, also you might noticed that I opened post about getting trading sub forum too.
I go "no" as answer to both of those, so don't blame players for opening posts with problems of this bracket.
Instead of bashing them, ask Roel to allow opening specific sub forum for our needs so we don't need to disturb you anymore.

I have no 80 here, not one that I've leveled.
I got this acc to keep it from deleting and decided to play the game on totally other way, and i'm doing it for almost 3 years here. I'm good at it, i'm VERY good at it.
Here is proof.

Korleone:

» 22 Aug 2014 04:55
Seems like most of these people don't play anymore, there is hardly any 10-19 bgs lately

Sheena:

» 16 Oct 2014 19:15
Korleone wrote:
Seems like most of these people don't play anymore, there is hardly any 10-19 bgs lately


Time to wake 'em up

I might sound as Shamm now but I'm forced to
Since the day I came back after the break i was forced to make due to serious real life problems I had, I made lv1 character and did few hours of talking to couple of allies. Picked the right words and here we are.
The most active stuff on server forum is about 10-19 bracket.

Instead of complaining, bashing, raging or whatever else, do something to make stuff that YOU do, look more appealing to others.

[Bluebell]

I think people complain at the use of the forum because it's a disproportionate amount. As in, the % of posts about twinks vastly outweighs the ingame time/playerbase of the twinks themselves.

This is of course, a problem with the forum's lack of use, as I've said before, it's mainly 10-20 posters, the staff, and people asking for help who don't even stick around for a reply.

It sometimes also degrades into a slogging war. A lot of threads have at least one person from either side (Warsong Clan / Grim Reaper) insulting the other, which leads to a small flame war. This gets repetitive and to an outsider, seems like a war between yourself and shamm, or indeed other twinks, going "no you kill lowbies more!!", which of course leads to someone seeing you both as lame twinks.

About the forums bit. How many twinks aren't in your guild or Grim Reaper? (People in Frostwolf don't count, as you said yourself it's a partnerhip). If it's like, 90% of the server's twinks, it's a lot more logical to make your own website, with your posts/guides. Not saying they're not useful here, but when all the twinks are concentrated in one group, doesn't make sense to make a forum for it.

[Fastor]

Combination of bold gray letters makes my tv make noise idk why, but that amount of text makes my eyes hurt.

Need short story.

[Nyeriah]

What Bluebell says is true. About the forums part I think we are fine as it is, but, sadly it's indeed a fact that people picking on each other constantly gets tiresome to read from time to time (and there have been reports about it in the past weeks).

[ItchyVortex]

God fucking dammit, you thinks are getting EVEN MORE dramatic and sensitive these days... But since you wrote this whole post from your heart i took the time to read it, and here are my thoughts:

Woole wrote that in a very offensive way but its true. Not every twink is a retard, but i have my memories of completely outplaying one but only taking 20% of his health before he kills me in 2 backstabs.

Blizz did simplify the talent system in MoP, but the main problem in that xpac is that each class had a bit of everything, this means way too many spells. This was corrected in WoD where they deleted (or nerfed to unusable) some spells.

"Yada yada high number of spells does not mean its good", correct, but this is World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King, where blizzard focused to balance lvl 80 pvp.

All in all twinks are very annoying for levelers, because as woole said, its frustrating to get in a bg to find out the enemy team has more twinks and there is just no way you can win.
As i said before, i do respect you (unlike most twinks). So, please, dont make another of these drama threads, because no one is forcing you to "sound like Shamm".

PS: If this idea of a 10-19 sub-forum goes on, why not a twinking sub-forum for all levels?

[Nyeriah]

Same reason we are not getting a trade section, why create yet another dead section that only 2 or - let's be hopeful - 4, people will post into?

[w00le]

Each following expansion tried only to simplify UI and cut down the number of spells.
Most drastic cut happened in MoP. Talents were geting you only handfull of options in compare to what we have here or on cata.
I've read that WoD is even going to make number of spells/skills even smaller.
What's the point of all this that I'm writing??
Point is that if something is complicated it doesn't mean it's good.

- Complicated doesn't mean it's good, but complicated means more difficult. Point is to attract new players, because then it's easier to play the game. Nice example is League of Legends.

I dont really see why so much rage towards people that play this bracket. You think they can't play 80 stuff. Well sorry to disappoint you, but one of best arena players on server have 19s here and find it very fun.

- I don't rage, I just said my opinion. I'm not disappointed if someone who is the best on the server has a twink, I don't see how that would disappoint me in any way. TW players also find very fun to camp graveyards on 80 lvl and never listen to anyone or anything, any advice and such, and keeps making same mistakes over and over again.

- I'll just repeat myself once more, the reason why I don't like twinks is because of them you can't level up and play bgs, you'll just get smashed mostly just because of gear, and then you'll lose will to que again because you feel useless, even if you are able to play better.
For example, you're a rogue, and you say you got many things that can make you play your class completly on other way. Ok. Now imagine a regular TW player lvl 13 queuing for WSG with his lvl 14 friend, and face you and your guildie in there. 18+ scenario. It kills your wish to play the game, that's truth. It makes wrong picture and it distracts you from doing any bgs at all while you're leveling up. That's why it would be great if server could script like... Idk, some custom npc for join bg as twink with a requirement to be _9 lvl. That would be a real deal. But I know it's not possible.

[w00le]

God fucking dammit, you thinks are getting EVEN MORE dramatic and sensitive these days... But since you wrote this whole post from your heart i took the time to read it, and here are my thoughts:

Woole wrote that in a very offensive way but its true. Not every twink is a retard, but i have my memories of completely outplaying one but only taking 20% of his health before he kills me in 2 backstabs.

Blizz did simplify the talent system in MoP, but the main problem in that xpac is that each class had a bit of everything, this means way too many spells. This was corrected in WoD where they deleted (or nerfed to unusable) some spells.

"Yada yada high number of spells does not mean its good", correct, but this is World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King, where blizzard focused to balance lvl 80 pvp.

All in all twinks are very annoying for levelers, because as woole said, its frustrating to get in a bg to find out the enemy team has more twinks and there is just no way you can win.
As i said before, i do respect you (unlike most twinks). So, please, dont make another of these drama threads, because no one is forcing you to "sound like Shamm".

PS: If this idea of a 10-19 sub-forum goes on, why not a twinking sub-forum for all levels?

It's good that actualy someone understands what I wrote. Tho I didn't wanna sound offensive, but I guess I'm bad at it.

[Therealshammtwink]

So much writing :O

[10-19@twink-news]

If you don't like twinking or twink topics then don't read the twink posts. Its as simple as that. It sounds silly that you would go all out to buy a Sci-Fi book when you know you only enjoy reading romantic novels and tell others why you hate reading sci-fi books because they don't turn you on.

Sure opinions are opinions and that's what forums are built on but rather post your opinions where they matter and not where they condescend otherwise the discussions will just provoke petty flame war fights.

To make it easier for you lot who loath twinking posts, if my BG discussions apply to any level I will not use the word "twink" in any of my subject lines or sentences and post them in the PvP space for all to read - (Which I believe I did do before posters used the word "twink" first before me and steered the topic towards low level BG brackets for all to follow and not climb out of)

If any of my discussions apply to twinking only or mainly have twinking content, then I will include the words "Twink" or "Twinking" in my subjects to flag them so you can gladly skip reading them.

If you just hate me and my posts in general then my forum name is a dead giveaway

[Fivecapz]

my 2 cents - '' you cant level through bg's with so many twinks '' - bitch please, i've leveled atleast 2 charecters if not 3 ONLY using bg's, and there were quite alot of twinks, but that didnt stop me just destroying them, since i was playing with a friend.

You just need to understand, getting from 1-20 is around 10 minutes of work even though it's boring as fuck, but its easy. so after 20 it's incredibly easy to do bg's for xp. since you dont like the 19's bracket just do that. HELL I CAN GIVE YOU A POWERLEVELING GUIDE if you're that inclined.

So basically there is no need to bash people in this bracket.

Ofcourse it's not that they're without their fault, the amount of drama is quite alot, i wish sheena would be the bigger person in this case and just ignore all these other retards, since from what i know, she's a smart lady. Might be too pashionate about 19's bracket, but that's nothing bad.

[Kindzadza]

Too many god damn twinks threads. I still can't see a reason behind them.

[Naljs]

I just have to point out that if you check the box in spellbook to show all ranks you'll see that even here you can use rank 1 spells. Very common amongst mages for Frostbolt. It's not just a 1.21.1 feature.

[SyntaxError]

Lock all twink threads on principle! >:D

[shaun03]

If you do that, you'll lose half of the forum activity ;D

In another topic, Arraj mentioned that it only seems to be Truewow who discourages twinking, Syntax's post above seems to prove that it stems from the GMs down ;o

Twinks play this game the way they do, because they enjoy it. Just like in this thread as I will quote this

There is nothing in the rules against this nor there should be since this is a rare case of a person having fun a different way (not wrong)

So, why all the hate guys?