Battleground improvements

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Virdo
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Battleground improvements

#1 » Post by Virdo » 24 Jul 2021 11:55

I very much agree to the original author for this topic (viewtopic.php?p=431548#p431548) to remove rating for all wrathful gear & weapons, so low geared and new players can get chance to face vs same geared players who already have this gear. It can look unfair because the gear was earned, but right now these people are in a big advantage due to having this gear now. And to compare days and months, years ago when they earned these gears, compared to today. Can say that today is 10 times harder to obtain them. So don't even try to feel being threatened unfair. Not to mention that one player have like up to 10 full wrathful geared chars. Let others get that chance as well!

More ideas:

1. Increase rates for kills in battleground (example 1 death= 3 Honorable kills or more than just 3). Years ago was no problem to get [100000 Honorable Kills] achievement, compared to how to reach this achievement today. A fresh 80 deciding about going for his achievement, is a bit mission impossible, compared to from years ago. And today is not a wotlk 2010 but its a wotlk 2021, so changes should be allowed with new ideas and improvements. This would be too boring if it was a really blizzlike wotlk from 2010.

2. A battleground buff -> the team with less gear or in big advantage to be on the losing spot, should receive a battleground buff to increase resilience and other stats – like the rdf buff)

3. Downgrade the overpowered team by lowering their gear in that bg, or simply work to avoid from full geared players to own the game, let opposite less geared team have some fun as well, at least kills if can't win.

4. Battleground rewards & some sort of motivation or goal for players to queue. (rare mount, gold, extra Honorable kills added at end of the bg, more other things...).
4.1.Simply reward the losing team with a consolation prize. They feel bad, anger, disappointment and lose of motivation after losing that bg. At least give them something so they do not feel like that.

5. Battleground kick of alt+f4 players. Players either close the game, or they really disconnect. So they stay in the battleground team for some time. That time is expensive and can lead into losing. Such player should be removed out after example 30 seconds or 1 minute, so a new one can enter earlier.
5.1 It happens sometimes that there is not an equal number in the battleground (example 6v4). In such case, 1 player should be changed in the opposite team to make it 5v5.

6. More battleground advertise, promotion, announces like the Sunday battleground event that has been happening for the 2nd week now. Why just have battleground for 1 time a week. Make them happen even in other days.

I know easier said than done. But the the staff list is big, especially for such a populated server, but i believe a few could work on pvp, because it needs a huge rework to make it good as it was and make it even better than that.

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skyx
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Re: Battleground improvements

#2 » Post by skyx » 24 Jul 2021 23:17

I commend you for thinking from a new player's perspective (something a few people here are unable to do).
Virdo wrote:
24 Jul 2021 11:55
2. A battleground buff -> the team with less gear or in big advantage to be on the losing spot, should receive a battleground buff to increase resilience and other stats – like the rdf buff)
I can see this being abused and diffilcult to implement so probably not a good idea.
Virdo wrote:
24 Jul 2021 11:55
3. Downgrade the overpowered team by lowering their gear in that bg, or simply work to avoid from full geared players to own the game, let opposite less geared team have some fun as well, at least kills if can't win.
This is basically the low gs battlegrounds suggested in many shapes and forms by players over the years. This idea is vehemently opposed by members of a certain guild you know because 2v2 Arathi Basins are fun :)

I believe a separate BG queue exclusively for lesser geared players can co-exist.
Virdo wrote:
24 Jul 2021 11:55
4. Battleground rewards & some sort of motivation or goal for players to queue. (rare mount, gold, extra Honorable kills added at end of the bg, more other things...).
4.1.Simply reward the losing team with a consolation prize. They feel bad, anger, disappointment and lose of motivation after losing that bg. At least give them something so they do not feel like that.
This might go beyond the line of "Blizz-like". Gems (as rewards) are fine for me currently but if something non-Blizzlike is given out to encourage BG participation, I would not mind.
Virdo wrote:
24 Jul 2021 11:55
5. Battleground kick of alt+f4 players. Players either close the game, or they really disconnect. So they stay in the battleground team for some time. That time is expensive and can lead into losing. Such player should be removed out after example 30 seconds or 1 minute, so a new one can enter earlier.
5.1 It happens sometimes that there is not an equal number in the battleground (example 6v4). In such case, 1 player should be changed in the opposite team to make it 5v5.
Reducing the grace period of kicking an afk player could be a good idea.
Virdo wrote:
24 Jul 2021 11:55
6. More battleground advertise, promotion, announces like the Sunday battleground event that has been happening for the 2nd week now. Why just have battleground for 1 time a week. Make them happen even in other days.
A healthy PvP population must be re-established if you want them to happen organically.

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vladancar
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Re: Battleground improvements

#3 » Post by vladancar » 25 Jul 2021 14:43

Personaly I agree with all ideas and I think some ideas might actualy boost PvP section, but have to disagree with 1st one.
I am farming that ach for years now, played unlimited 3v3 bgs, wasted some many hours, nervs and my free time on it and I still dont have it, now players would be able to get it in few months maybe, I simple cant agree with that.
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Kniteknite
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Re: Battleground improvements

#4 » Post by Kniteknite » 26 Jul 2021 04:34

standard bg resilience level for all players ? ;)



https://truewow.org/armory/character.ph ... te&realm=t
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bobsmyname
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Re: Battleground improvements

#5 » Post by bobsmyname » 26 Jul 2021 06:55

Honestly, at this point who cares if you remove the rating from WF gear. Higher rating gives more AP already, and the geargap is massive. Just because it is possible (and was done literally in this year's deadly season) for a furious player to push 2k+, doesn't mean it needs to be necessary.
I believe that weapons / offhands librams ect need to keep their rating requirements, at the absolute least the high tier ones. If you want to make the 264 not need rating, sure I guess.

#5 is cool, I agree with that

2 & 3 aren't worth the effort they'd need to even consider.

4 I don't care about

6 if you start advertising people play every day you lose the fomo of having it on 1 or 2 specific days, and we go back to... the last x number of years
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skyx
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Re: Battleground improvements

#6 » Post by skyx » 26 Jul 2021 11:36

bobsmyname wrote:
26 Jul 2021 06:55
Just because it is possible (and was done literally in this year's deadly season) for a furious player to push 2k+, doesn't mean it needs to be necessary.
Getting 2k+ with the arena MMR changes doesn't really count to be honest. The rating gain/loss is inflated compared to Blizz-like.

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Ayoe
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Re: Battleground improvements

#7 » Post by Ayoe » 26 Jul 2021 14:29

I agree 100% with the fact that the time distance from reporting an AFK player to the player being kicked is too long and that is why Roel now have implemented it to be 1 minute. So that is dealt with - Happened yesterday, that is why nobody knows of it yet.

Besides that Roel has implemented a few changes to build on top of the changes that was made last year, which will be explained and informed soon.

I personally do not see how it will change anything except from in a negative direction if we are going to handle out WF items - what is the point of arenas if you cannot earn the best in slot pvp items? What should be motivator for people to keep going and trying? No. The best gear should not be given for free - easier obtained yes. But my idea is instead of making WF free, make the Relentless gear cheaper in arena points, so you can earn it through battlegrounds and don't have to spend months on it. The gear stats aren't that massive from relentless to WF. So this will equal out the differences in gear and make the battles more equal plus still keep the goal, the honor, the feeling of being extra for WF gear.

The thing with adding buffs is going to be a mess in my opinion. And probably TONS of work for developers - And i don't see it as needed at all. So in short, i disagree with the majority of the post.

And then I want to point out to the last point - We are some GMs who has put a high focus on getting pvp active on the server, which I do believe you can see from the battleground sundays. Our plan is not to keep it to sunday only, but we JUST started the project. Like LITERALLY JUST started it, so please give us time. For things to work and be proper we need to get the planning down and execute the whole deal in a correct way otherwise it goes straight into the drain.

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skyx
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Re: Battleground improvements

#8 » Post by skyx » 26 Jul 2021 20:14

Three changes I want to see to battlegrounds:

1) Only have one Battleground up at a time until it is full. I have seen a 2x 2v2 WSG happen and it should not.

2) Make the minimum number of people for EOTS to pop up for at least 8 players and Arathi Basin to at least 10 players. 2v2 Arathi Basin is such a meme.

3) Let at least 2 WSG battlegrounds happen before any AB/EOTS is selected. Sometimes, a decent WSG happens only for a few people to take a break from queuing/stop playing for the day and the dreaded 2v2 Arathi Basin appears.

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Ayoe
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Re: Battleground improvements

#9 » Post by Ayoe » 26 Jul 2021 20:45

skyx wrote:
26 Jul 2021 20:14
Three changes I want to see to battlegrounds:

1) Only have one Battleground up at a time until it is full. I have seen a 2x 2v2 WSG happen and it should not.

2) Make the minimum number of people for EOTS to pop up for at least 8 players and Arathi Basin to at least 10 players. 2v2 Arathi Basin is such a meme.

3) Let at least 2 WSG battlegrounds happen before any AB/EOTS is selected. Sometimes, a decent WSG happens only for a few people to take a break from queuing/stop playing for the day and the dreaded 2v2 Arathi Basin appears.
First thing has happened. 2v2 is kinda rare in these days. EoTS and Arathi Basin both has higher requierements than 2v2 nowadays. That is old changes. Most of the things you are asking for is things you can see if you were online in these days. Nowadays there is BGs every day, and it is not 2v2.

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Roel
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Re: Battleground improvements

#10 » Post by Roel » 26 Jul 2021 21:42

skyx wrote:
26 Jul 2021 20:14
1) Only have one Battleground up at a time until it is full. I have seen a 2x 2v2 WSG happen and it should not.
This is a problem with too many people joining simultaneously, it can be avoided by waiting 10-20 seconds to queue after a BG ends. Requiring 6 players to start a BG would work but then all 2v2 WSGs would be replaced by 0 BGs.
skyx wrote:
26 Jul 2021 20:14
2) Make the minimum number of people for EOTS to pop up for at least 8 players and Arathi Basin to at least 10 players. 2v2 Arathi Basin is such a meme.
They both already require 8 in the previous BG but not everyone rejoins... What I could do is force them to close if it's less than 3v3 or 4v4 instead of 2v2. And then also reduce the close timer from 5 minutes to 1 minute so next WSG can start quickly. This would also reduce the other 2 problems. AB was thought to be more popular but it's indeed better with more players, we can try and see how people react if EOTS is given priority.

Some of the other suggestions aren't all so easy to give a try. And if they have permanent effects, it needs to be clear that the majority agrees.

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bobsmyname
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Re: Battleground improvements

#11 » Post by bobsmyname » 27 Jul 2021 01:58

skyx wrote:
26 Jul 2021 11:36
Getting 2k+ with the arena MMR changes doesn't really count to be honest. The rating gain/loss is inflated compared to Blizz-like.
Of course it isn't blizzlike, but the point is it's Truewow.
Ayoe wrote:
26 Jul 2021 14:29
I personally do not see how it will change anything except from in a negative direction if we are going to handle out WF items - what is the point of arenas if you cannot earn the best in slot pvp items?
Why do players with bis pvp queue arena then? They don't need the gear.

I'm not sure how 2370 ap items being avaliable counts as handing out, when you get, what, 261 ap per flush at or under 1500, 336 if you also do rbg. 7 daily flushes for an item.

-People will still be queuing just for the AP to buy the gear.

Also worth noting that Primalwow also had this, from s2-4, that you don't need rating to buy armor. Just weapons. What's the difference here?

And, again, leave 277 weapon rating requirement there.

Ultimately doesn't affect me what the choice is by the staff. Just my thoughts.
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Virdo
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Re: Battleground improvements

#12 » Post by Virdo » 04 Aug 2021 21:24

I'm aware that some ideas are very hard to implement, wanted to make some happen if not all possible. But at least try and focus for honourable kills in battle grounds & all kind of rewards to stop killing the motivation for playing.

One hour bg and end up getting like less than 10 hks and with that comes less honour as well. So it's not even worth playing a full bg for just that.

Here are some examples that I randomly found:

https://truewow.org/pvpstats/battleground.php?id=99640

https://truewow.org/pvpstats/battleground.php?id=99647

https://truewow.org/pvpstats/battleground.php?id=99648

https://truewow.org/pvpstats/battleground.php?id=99646

https://truewow.org/pvpstats/battleground.php?id=99643

https://truewow.org/pvpstats/battleground.php?id=99642

https://truewow.org/pvpstats/battleground.php?id=99639

https://truewow.org/pvpstats/battleground.php?id=99640

This problem is because of bad population and low interest for bg. So with less people in a bg, you don't get much awarded by kills and honour. Or when a team has healer and other one doesn't, most likely the team with healer will gain lots of it. Healer in low populated bgs is the huge problem here.

Whenever some players decide to kill mood for other people, they log over geared chars and screw other's game play (same goes for arena). To prevent that, maybe with increased rewards that might help a bit or any other similar kind of idea. Because right now, when those people get their win with outbalancing the team with over geared char, the less people queue up for next. I myself stop instantly for some time (bg's also stop happening, so is not just me), because its more frustration than actual fun.

I think something needs to be done with these issues. The frustration part are low populated bgs.

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chickenbutt
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Re: Battleground improvements

#13 » Post by chickenbutt » 05 Aug 2021 03:12

Since Wintergrasp isn't enabled due to X-faction and you don't get very many HKs in arena, or at all as in the open world as well, I understand that it's hard to farm HKs.

The first thing that comes to my mind is perhaps lowering the timer for all BGs to 10 or 15 minutes, quite a lot shorter than the punishing 26 minutes that a battleground is required to last until it closes naturally.

Besides this, maybe there could be some auto messages in chat sort of like there used to be when someone queues for arenas. A message saying something like 'only one more player needed for random battleground' (with a cooldown of a couple minutes of course) when someone joins queue and takes it to 3:0 (need 1 more)
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Ayoe
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Re: Battleground improvements

#14 » Post by Ayoe » 05 Aug 2021 11:56

Virdo wrote:
04 Aug 2021 21:24
One hour bg and end up getting like less than 10 hks and with that comes less honour as well. So it's not even worth playing a full bg for just that.
Lately there have been much more battlegrounds going on. I don't know how unlucky you are but when I do battlegrounds that last less than 1 hour I have far above 10 hks. Maybe it is more about where you position yourself in the battleground because I don't know many who has that issue. Back when it was 2v2 yes, but latest yesterday there was 6v6 going on. On battleground sundays we have up 17v17 .. And during the week it goes up and down. HKs is not difficult in these days if you ask me. If you came 2 months ago and said yes, I would have agreed but not in these days. If this is too slow then I do not know what can please you without giving you free rewards with no effort.

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Kniteknite
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Re: Battleground improvements

#15 » Post by Kniteknite » 06 Aug 2021 13:35

if an announcement was viewable like arena announcemnts are seen by all, that would be cool, instead of just seen by players queing I agree CB~
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