Yesterday we had some discussions on truewow discord about ways to increase server population.
Current situation is that we have pretty low pop.
1)50-200.
2) very few levelers between 1-60 (1-60 rdf is pretty dead). Was ok in tbc stage now it's pretty dismal
3)Many raid loggers. Some of the 50-200 due to multiple boxers as well so not a true reflection of real population.
Discussed reasons:
1) more bugs currently than at vanilla stage
2) server instability
3) low pop vicious cycle - both for end game raids and for leveling rdf, so if full groups do not form ppl eventually give up and join other servers
4) leveling too slow for new players (no one wants to level x1 1-60 or 70)
5) transfers at 60 (hence no < 60 levelers)
Proposed solutions
1)recruit more testers (Shin, truewow discord)
2) recruit more developers/technical
3) multiple XP rates for 1-60(x2?) Since we already allot lvl 60 transfers anyway. Not sure if possible to limit to zones or allow players to choose rates
Increasing levelers pop is important so that we have a diverse and balanced server pop.
Also allows peeps to try out the server scripting and the community which we are promoting as the main draw to primal wow as they level (Whippyy, officer, Logic)
4) put out promotional videos (whammy GM, murmur)
5) server stability - no clue as we have no visibility
Key is we need to stop the low pop vicious cycle and start a virtuous cycle for population. Attracting more peeps inevitably attracts undesirable elements but we need to balance that out Vs a low population.
Would you rather have a rdf/ raid that forms with a chance of weirdos in group or an rdf that never pops or a raid that never happens?
Above is just something we discussed on discord, putting it into this forum for more brainstorming!
Population posible solution
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organizedchaos16
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 25 Jul 2015 20:02
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
I am against increased XP rates. I want a blizlike server. If someone wants to level faster, they can recruit a friend and get the 300% XP.
I definitely agree about bugs and server instability being a problem. I almost quit in July when the server was crashing every night. I imagine that's when a lot of people left. Now the problem I see is someone new joins and asks about population and they get responses in world chat saying the server is dead. Then the new person leaves.
I don't know what the solution is. Fixing server stability would probably be a good place to start though.
I definitely agree about bugs and server instability being a problem. I almost quit in July when the server was crashing every night. I imagine that's when a lot of people left. Now the problem I see is someone new joins and asks about population and they get responses in world chat saying the server is dead. Then the new person leaves.
I don't know what the solution is. Fixing server stability would probably be a good place to start though.
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
Tester & Developer recruitment is always open,
PM Jiranthos / Errorista about it
XP rates has been suggested a countless of times before, will most likely not happen
Promotions are done by Facebook mostly nowadays, I agree it's lacking in a spreaded social media activity but it is indeed still being done. There's plans to boost such activity
Server stability is obviously something we strive for. This were discussed at
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=38291#p415208
PM Jiranthos / Errorista about it
XP rates has been suggested a countless of times before, will most likely not happen
Promotions are done by Facebook mostly nowadays, I agree it's lacking in a spreaded social media activity but it is indeed still being done. There's plans to boost such activity
Server stability is obviously something we strive for. This were discussed at
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=38291#p415208
.
“ There's things that never will be right I know, and things need changin' everywhere you go.
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white. ”
- J.R Cash
“ There's things that never will be right I know, and things need changin' everywhere you go.
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white. ”
- J.R Cash
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
@ organized chaos - how many toons do you have leveling currently from 1-60? How many do u intend to level?
The ideal situation is for ppl to be able to choose what XP rates they want when they level, but not sure if possible.
Some peeps want x1 rate, but if they are allowing 60 transfers and if ppl are doing it means many peeps do not want to level up x1 from scratch.
Putting onus to get peeps to RAF to level x3 sounds like a good idea but in reality is harder to implement. The counter argument for players without RAF is why can't server allow them to choose to have x2 or x3 when they leveling alone? How is RAF blizzlike then?
RAF doesn't need to be a multiplier effect on increased XP rates. You can choose one of the multipliers, either RAF or X2/3
And it doesn't have to be 1-60 can be 1-50 whatever makes sense.
Numbers speak for themselves. I know it's not blizzlike in wotlk to have more than x1, it's bad from a purist point of view, but if the leveling pop is very low then we need to review that.
We have to make a choice. Would you rather be by yourself leveling x1 or would you rather have something non blizzlike in your opinion but have 5 others leveling beside you?
Yes I m aware that server stability could affect new peeps joining but we have to address that separately.
It's more tricky to sort out technical and server issues than to decide settings.
We can say we want to stick with our principles and all that, but in reality how many ppl will stay and play?
End of day, we have to make hard choices about the direction of the server and people need to understand that we need to address these issues before our pop goes lower.
The ideal situation is for ppl to be able to choose what XP rates they want when they level, but not sure if possible.
Some peeps want x1 rate, but if they are allowing 60 transfers and if ppl are doing it means many peeps do not want to level up x1 from scratch.
Putting onus to get peeps to RAF to level x3 sounds like a good idea but in reality is harder to implement. The counter argument for players without RAF is why can't server allow them to choose to have x2 or x3 when they leveling alone? How is RAF blizzlike then?
RAF doesn't need to be a multiplier effect on increased XP rates. You can choose one of the multipliers, either RAF or X2/3
And it doesn't have to be 1-60 can be 1-50 whatever makes sense.
Numbers speak for themselves. I know it's not blizzlike in wotlk to have more than x1, it's bad from a purist point of view, but if the leveling pop is very low then we need to review that.
We have to make a choice. Would you rather be by yourself leveling x1 or would you rather have something non blizzlike in your opinion but have 5 others leveling beside you?
Yes I m aware that server stability could affect new peeps joining but we have to address that separately.
It's more tricky to sort out technical and server issues than to decide settings.
We can say we want to stick with our principles and all that, but in reality how many ppl will stay and play?
End of day, we have to make hard choices about the direction of the server and people need to understand that we need to address these issues before our pop goes lower.
Last edited by jetteroo on 28 Aug 2017 08:09, edited 1 time in total.
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
@Eronox - I know it has been discussed many times before on increased XP rates.
I been here since vanilla, but now the 1-60 rdf is very dismal compared to pre tbc.
It was not great pre tbc but at least it would pop.
Just compare the 1-60 pop now to pre tbc....
Let's not argue about it here. It's just a suggestion in view of whats happening. I feel it's time to bring it up again, I see most peeps coming in with transfers but not with fresh characters.
I been here since vanilla, but now the 1-60 rdf is very dismal compared to pre tbc.
It was not great pre tbc but at least it would pop.
Just compare the 1-60 pop now to pre tbc....
Let's not argue about it here. It's just a suggestion in view of whats happening. I feel it's time to bring it up again, I see most peeps coming in with transfers but not with fresh characters.
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
There should be option for XP rate 1-60 of even higher than x2, or allow instant 60. The population is too low and--key here for people asking for "blizzlike"--there are transfers to instant 60 already, it's just a time-consuming and annoying process that not everyone can take advantage of, since maybe their server was taken down.
That's part of the "dead server" vicious cycle issue, which has become a big issue for servers that aren't super-high-pop hype servers nowadays.
Another thing that would attract people to this server is fully taking advantage of what makes it unique: Wrath gameplay in TBC content. I would guess that most people who come to this server come for the gameplay, and not just to be able to progress from TBC to Wrath with one character.
A big part of that gameplay is being able to play more specs than were available in vanilla or TBC. Unfortunately, not only did Blizzard stack a lot of the wrath class changes in post 70-abilities, but Primal unnecessarily blocks off talents lower in the talent tree (at least the next level of talents), and combined this means that there are not really more specs available for gameplay--perhaps even less specs are available than in TBC, as it seems some specs like destro lock just don't make the cut. I already provided various suggestions for this issue, but regardless of what is done--or even what has already been done--it would be cool for new players to see that the server has worked for balance between neglected classes and the mega-classes that are OP single-target and AOE.
Lastly, I would encourage buffing boss HP to be used a bit less. There are multiple encounters that are either immensely tedious (Moroes) or much more difficult (Shaffar in MT HC, Illihoof, Gruul) leading players to leave. I'm aware Murmur and a couple guilds have cleared available content with the appropriate gear level, but unfortunately it is the perfect situation for new players and guilds to immediately fall apart, and for the server to turn into a place for 50 raid loggers and lonely levelers who will have to grind to 70 while everyone tells them server is dead and their spec isn't viable.
A lot of this is critical, so of course it's important to mention that server isn't dead, that I appreciate work done on classes, that bug fixing and most staff are fantastic so far, and that this is a unique server that is arguably more promising than any other server.
That's part of the "dead server" vicious cycle issue, which has become a big issue for servers that aren't super-high-pop hype servers nowadays.
Another thing that would attract people to this server is fully taking advantage of what makes it unique: Wrath gameplay in TBC content. I would guess that most people who come to this server come for the gameplay, and not just to be able to progress from TBC to Wrath with one character.
A big part of that gameplay is being able to play more specs than were available in vanilla or TBC. Unfortunately, not only did Blizzard stack a lot of the wrath class changes in post 70-abilities, but Primal unnecessarily blocks off talents lower in the talent tree (at least the next level of talents), and combined this means that there are not really more specs available for gameplay--perhaps even less specs are available than in TBC, as it seems some specs like destro lock just don't make the cut. I already provided various suggestions for this issue, but regardless of what is done--or even what has already been done--it would be cool for new players to see that the server has worked for balance between neglected classes and the mega-classes that are OP single-target and AOE.
Lastly, I would encourage buffing boss HP to be used a bit less. There are multiple encounters that are either immensely tedious (Moroes) or much more difficult (Shaffar in MT HC, Illihoof, Gruul) leading players to leave. I'm aware Murmur and a couple guilds have cleared available content with the appropriate gear level, but unfortunately it is the perfect situation for new players and guilds to immediately fall apart, and for the server to turn into a place for 50 raid loggers and lonely levelers who will have to grind to 70 while everyone tells them server is dead and their spec isn't viable.
A lot of this is critical, so of course it's important to mention that server isn't dead, that I appreciate work done on classes, that bug fixing and most staff are fantastic so far, and that this is a unique server that is arguably more promising than any other server.
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
i know i have been complaining about a lot of stuff since the start of TBC and this is very frustrating and annoying for the staff. one of the thigns that annoy ME, when i read replys from staff on suggestions or whatever is, that it always makes me feel like a few people in charge here on the server are trying to shape the server the way they want or they think they always know it best.
i have a lot of ideas i could share here aswell, i have been supporting the server in the past with not so small amounts of donations and i would do that again. i have been advertising this server to around 15 people, some of them brought there friends with them, but most of them leftagain, because of the recent issues. I am kinda done after i read this reply from Kurthos:
I think my first "complain post" was pretty much reasonable and polite, but he did not like it. He whispered me ingame to not write stuff like that publicly in the forum, because it is not appreciated by the staff and it prevents new players from joining. I did not post it in the super secret tester forum, because i wanted it to be read by all players on the server, because i knew this was not only an issue for me.
In that talk he also encouraged me to use the bug tracker more, which i did from that point on, i actually used it a lot for some time, until i got frustrated again, because some of the issues have been ignored or were obviously not seen as bugs altho they are or were bugs. THAT kind of ignorance, along with some staff members (not all) thinking they know everything best and kinda want the server to be run and to be adjusted the way they want it. i am not going into details now.
Then i have been removed from the tester forum, which kinda was the top of the iceberg for me. You really think all of this is letting me untouched and not making me angry? OFC it does.
But i am not complaining here for the sake of complaining i try to improve the server like everyone else. If i would not care, i would not still play here, because there are not really many reasons to keep someone playing here atm. But i have always been a loyal person, and other than he, i did not leave yet. Also i do not need to use exploits or hacks to have fun here.
If i would not care for this server (despite als its issues atm) i would not play here. So yeah, i think replies like that from a (former) staff member are totally unacceptable.
i have a lot of ideas i could share here aswell, i have been supporting the server in the past with not so small amounts of donations and i would do that again. i have been advertising this server to around 15 people, some of them brought there friends with them, but most of them leftagain, because of the recent issues. I am kinda done after i read this reply from Kurthos:
kurthos wrote: ↑22 Aug 2017 04:05What exactly do you think they can do that the staff isn't already doing? You are doing two things here: you are firstly blaming stale content on the staff as if it were a planned occurrence. SSC release is planned for October 2017 and had been for over a year. It's been publicly known since march of this year. Secondly, you are shaming the staff as if they don't understand what's going on with the server.
Every time you talk, it is never constructive. Every post you make is the same thing. What can the staff do that is more than they are already doing?
Where was your criticism when I was asking for help over a year ago to test endgame vanilla and TBC content?
I begged the server for more help testing content and preparing for TBC, Naxx40, and AQ40 releases. Begged players that include several of you who now post here.
In my eyes, you don't deserve to play here. There are many people who do deserve a better server than PrimalWoW currently is, but you specifically, deserve exactly what you have now.
Toxicity breeds toxicity, and you are quite the overflowing pool.
I think my first "complain post" was pretty much reasonable and polite, but he did not like it. He whispered me ingame to not write stuff like that publicly in the forum, because it is not appreciated by the staff and it prevents new players from joining. I did not post it in the super secret tester forum, because i wanted it to be read by all players on the server, because i knew this was not only an issue for me.
In that talk he also encouraged me to use the bug tracker more, which i did from that point on, i actually used it a lot for some time, until i got frustrated again, because some of the issues have been ignored or were obviously not seen as bugs altho they are or were bugs. THAT kind of ignorance, along with some staff members (not all) thinking they know everything best and kinda want the server to be run and to be adjusted the way they want it. i am not going into details now.
Then i have been removed from the tester forum, which kinda was the top of the iceberg for me. You really think all of this is letting me untouched and not making me angry? OFC it does.
But i am not complaining here for the sake of complaining i try to improve the server like everyone else. If i would not care, i would not still play here, because there are not really many reasons to keep someone playing here atm. But i have always been a loyal person, and other than he, i did not leave yet. Also i do not need to use exploits or hacks to have fun here.
If i would not care for this server (despite als its issues atm) i would not play here. So yeah, i think replies like that from a (former) staff member are totally unacceptable.
Last edited by flosr1 on 28 Aug 2017 11:23, edited 1 time in total.
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
IMHO the bugs after TBC release, stability, and the fact that it is not "true" TBC nor PVP cemented this servers faith as a fun server.
As a relative newcomer to WOW my suggestions would be to make it possible for people to choose once per char if it is PVP or PVE. Once a char is flagged it cant be changed. Because RDF is so dismal ATM I would love 3 man dungeons implemented. Leveling 1 - 60 make it possible to change rates 1x - 3x. With transfers already possible let people choose how fast they want to level if they do not have/want a transfer. As incentives to play I would significantly reduce the cost of level 40 mounts. For all newly created accounts give the Ethereal Soul Trader as a gift. If you don't have this little bugger you don't know what a life/time saver it is when farming or leveling. Your bags will thank you
.
To attract PVP players run world PVP events or tournaments. For example "Defenders of Redrige" event where the goal would be for Alliance to defend or horde to take control of the bridge in Redrige. This would be a timed event. Winners would receive web points, vanity items, and bragging rights. Organize 1v1 tournaments at Capital cities where the winners fight for the continent title. The continent champion (1 per continent) would fight for the "Slayer/Champion of Azeroth" title.
My 2c
As a relative newcomer to WOW my suggestions would be to make it possible for people to choose once per char if it is PVP or PVE. Once a char is flagged it cant be changed. Because RDF is so dismal ATM I would love 3 man dungeons implemented. Leveling 1 - 60 make it possible to change rates 1x - 3x. With transfers already possible let people choose how fast they want to level if they do not have/want a transfer. As incentives to play I would significantly reduce the cost of level 40 mounts. For all newly created accounts give the Ethereal Soul Trader as a gift. If you don't have this little bugger you don't know what a life/time saver it is when farming or leveling. Your bags will thank you
. To attract PVP players run world PVP events or tournaments. For example "Defenders of Redrige" event where the goal would be for Alliance to defend or horde to take control of the bridge in Redrige. This would be a timed event. Winners would receive web points, vanity items, and bragging rights. Organize 1v1 tournaments at Capital cities where the winners fight for the continent title. The continent champion (1 per continent) would fight for the "Slayer/Champion of Azeroth" title.
My 2c
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
Seems like there are two things going on here: 1) best XP rates, and 2) rewards for RAF. 1-60 can be made much faster for people sick of leveling on private servers (as the server recognizes with transfers) and we can give other incentives for RAF.
As far as the stuff on staff and bugs, please keep in mind that TBC servers are usually way more buggy, that for some reason a lot of bugs haven't been reported until now. And ignore Kurthos, he's just not nice sometimes.
As far as the stuff on staff and bugs, please keep in mind that TBC servers are usually way more buggy, that for some reason a lot of bugs haven't been reported until now. And ignore Kurthos, he's just not nice sometimes.
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
First of all I would like to thank you for sharing your ideas and so far civilized discussion.
I highly doubt higher rates will ever get implemented as those are against one of core TrueWoW values of being as blizzlike as possible.
Considering question if RaF is blizzlike, yes it is
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Recruit-A-Friend
As Eronox pointed out before, anyone willing to help with development and testing is more than welcome.
I would like also kindly ask not to post things not connected to the main topic. Consider it as a warning flosr1. If you wish to discuss how you got wronged by anyone please fins more suitable place for example PM.
I highly doubt higher rates will ever get implemented as those are against one of core TrueWoW values of being as blizzlike as possible.
Considering question if RaF is blizzlike, yes it is
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Recruit-A-Friend
As Eronox pointed out before, anyone willing to help with development and testing is more than welcome.
I would like also kindly ask not to post things not connected to the main topic. Consider it as a warning flosr1. If you wish to discuss how you got wronged by anyone please fins more suitable place for example PM.
There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.
~Niccolo Machiavelli
~Niccolo Machiavelli
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
@Almsivi thanks for the RAF link. I wasn't aware.
I know higher rates isn't blizzlike. But increasing xp rates isn't the goal of my post. It was always just a suggestion to try to see if we can address issue of lack of levelers rather than just let 60s transfer in and be happy with that.
That's the objective and important issue we need to address - the lack of leveling toons between 1-60 and hence the make up of the population
Although ... If we are happy with having new peeps just transferring in at 60 to shove up the population... Then I guess I will stop commenting on this particular suggestion.
I know higher rates isn't blizzlike. But increasing xp rates isn't the goal of my post. It was always just a suggestion to try to see if we can address issue of lack of levelers rather than just let 60s transfer in and be happy with that.
That's the objective and important issue we need to address - the lack of leveling toons between 1-60 and hence the make up of the population
Although ... If we are happy with having new peeps just transferring in at 60 to shove up the population... Then I guess I will stop commenting on this particular suggestion.
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
How about increasing XP rates to 2x at times when server is low on population like from 4:00 to 17:00 from monday to friday it would be nice reward for players who don't raid log and would help stimulate activity during rest times of day thus increasing overall population
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Nyeriah
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
I see 3 days uptime, 4 days uptime before that. Seems quite stable to me, time to change the record and bust some myths.
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
One way I can think of ... exchange of web points to get some increased xp potion that lasts for a certain amount of time?
We can get more levelling toons to vote and at same time get them to be boosted while levelling
We can get more levelling toons to vote and at same time get them to be boosted while levelling
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Fitzpatrick
- Honorary Member
- Posts: 470
- Joined: 21 Jan 2016 19:34
Re: How to increase primal wow server population
Ok, well this is near stream-of-consciousness but I'll see what I can do.
This seems to be at odds with your previous suggestion. Also, be careful ascribing your motivations to the rest of us. Also, lets not forget that Wrath content is ~2 years off.
Hope that helped or at least spoke to your criticisms.
Leveling is already super fast and there are already numerous ways to bypass it. I guess I'm not against a lower level (5-58) type increase but I sincerely doubt that's the reason people don't play here. Increasing it more just gives you new raiders with no tradeskills. Instant 60s seems completely awful to me. In my opinion, the less people have invested in their characters, the less likely they are to continue to play as soon as they do the rounds through Kara or whatever.dgreenbe wrote: ↑28 Aug 2017 08:08There should be option for XP rate 1-60 of even higher than x2, or allow instant 60. The population is too low and--key here for people asking for "blizzlike"--there are transfers to instant 60 already, it's just a time-consuming and annoying process that not everyone can take advantage of, since maybe their server was taken down.
Another thing that would attract people to this server is fully taking advantage of what makes it unique: Wrath gameplay in TBC content. I would guess that most people who come to this server come for the gameplay, and not just to be able to progress from TBC to Wrath with one character.
This seems to be at odds with your previous suggestion. Also, be careful ascribing your motivations to the rest of us. Also, lets not forget that Wrath content is ~2 years off.
Which are the neglected classes? As far as I can tell every class has more diversity of specs/roles at 70 than we did at 60. Taking your example of Warlock: at 60 there was one spec that everyone played in PVE. At 70, there are 3 completely viable PVE specs, and destro spec will be used by at least 1 warlock per raid in t5, t6 content for tanking (probably).A big part of that gameplay is being able to play more specs than were available in vanilla or TBC. Unfortunately, not only did Blizzard stack a lot of the wrath class changes in post 70-abilities, but Primal unnecessarily blocks off talents lower in the talent tree (at least the next level of talents), and combined this means that there are not really more specs available for gameplay--perhaps even less specs are available than in TBC, as it seems some specs like destro lock just don't make the cut. I already provided various suggestions for this issue, but regardless of what is done--or even what has already been done--it would be cool for new players to see that the server has worked for balance between neglected classes and the mega-classes that are OP single-target and AOE.
Firstly, raid bosses will have their HP tuned down as new content is released, as has happened with all previous content. Secondly, I'm not sure the difficulty you're speaking of isn't also *keeping* people here. A lot of us prefer some level of difficulty. Thirdly, don't forget that at the moment there are only two short 25 man instances available. I think the amount of content will keep people logging in more once t5 starts getting released, and onwards. Guilds that want to clear t6 will likely also continue to clear both t5 raids and Gruul to attune new players.Lastly, I would encourage buffing boss HP to be used a bit less. There are multiple encounters that are either immensely tedious (Moroes) or much more difficult (Shaffar in MT HC, Illihoof, Gruul) leading players to leave. I'm aware Murmur and a couple guilds have cleared available content with the appropriate gear level, but unfortunately it is the perfect situation for new players and guilds to immediately fall apart, and for the server to turn into a place for 50 raid loggers and lonely levelers who will have to grind to 70 while everyone tells them server is dead and their spec isn't viable.
Hope that helped or at least spoke to your criticisms.
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