Moonkin PVP playable on TrueWoW?

[Liebe]

Hi,

I just learned about some classes doing too much damage here (warriors, rets, hunters) and a resilience bug.

Since moonkins do get trained a lot and their playstile is pretty defensive outside Starfall and trees, you think they are playable on TrueWoW?

I'd hate to level to 80 at 1x, then learn any mouth breathing warrior/ret/hunter team can kill me in a HoJ or bladestorm while I'm at full HP, Barkskin and Frenzied Regen and wearing 1.3K resi for example.

[Vaen]

I don't think resilience is bugged, but some classes are indeed doing too much damage, maybe you won't notice warrior differences in pvp since fury is the bugged spec atm

[Discarnate]

Since majority of the player base finds it much more convenient to jump to speculated conclusions rather than finding out the reality, my personal suggestion for you is to refrain from fully believing these "facts" that you heard from others about what is bugged or not. Very few players actually have a grasp of the situation.

There are several bugs that are affecting several classes/specs by either increasing or decreasing their damage. But, as far as resilience is concerned, there is no bug regarding resilience as a whole. There is a minor bug about the crit damage reduction of resilience which sometimes REDUCES your crit damage done, not increases.

There is a bug which is mainly applicable to Shadow Priests (Mind Flay) and Arcane Mages (Arcane Missiles). Channeled spells' crit chance doesn't get reduced by resilience's own crit chance reduction. Note that the difference isn't in the damage, but in the crit chance which results in messy numbers.

Fortunately, most Shadow Priests in this server aren't experienced enough to use Mooncloth gear and they usually OOM after one Dispersion, so, you can always counter them by going really defensive in the beginning (of course, unless they're playing with a Rogue in which case, consider getting yourself a warm cup of tea for comfort). Arcane Mages are too squishy without a Rogue to be considered a serious threat. So, I think, you can live with that bug.

Now, the classes you mentioned: Ret Paladins, MM Hunters, Arms Warriors.

Ret Paladins: They have no bug in PvP helping their damage unless they're using Seal of Corruption/Vengeance and used Avenging Wrath with it -- which is almost never. They do have a PvE bug increasing their damage by a lot.

MM Hunters: It's sharing the same bug as Ret Paladins but are more commonly found taking advantage of it in a PvP setting due to their class mechanism (I'd like to believe, it's not their fault, and they do feel sorry for others). This bug also almost doesn't cause an issue inside arena. I will link you the description of the bug so you have an idea what it's all about. http://www.truewow.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7769

Arms Warriors: They have absolutely no bug increasing their overall damage at all. The Sweeping Strikes bug was a very old one and does not exist anymore. I tested this over a hundred times since I have an OCD about playing overpowered (in terms of bugs) classes/specs. However, there's a minor bug where Bladestorm also hits with your off-hand. Now, here's the thing, they HAVE no off-hand weapon. So, you're gonna be touched by their fist (not even the main-hand, the off-hand fist) each time they do a whirlwind while Bladestorming. My grandmother, may she rest in peace, who died when I was a kid and left a hole in my heart, I heard, could do better damage with her fist. Fury Warriors, on the other hand, do have a very minor bug increasing their damage (although nothing compared to the others) by 10%. Fury is only used in PvE. Refer to the aforementioned link for details.

Finally, Balance PvP. Entirely viable if you're used to it, know what to do, and find a decent/suitable partner. It has no serious bugs, does fantastic damage, etc. I have some experience in it as well even though I mainly play Feral. Try to buy yourself full Spirit gear and spec out of Eclipse.

I hope, I helped.
Good luck.

P.S. People in this server jump on the bandwagon of "that's bugged" every time somebody does a lot of damage to them. It's the "private server syndrome" and will be fixed as you learn to ignore it and find things out for yourself. Welcome to the server, new one.

[marko1984]

If u want some Balance pvp tips for this server u can ask Mac if u see him online... he is one of the few who is doing it (if you are horde)
oh and dont use typhoon thru walls please...

[Folkk]

Ret Paladins: They have no bug in PvP helping their damage unless they're using Seal of Corruption/Vengeance and used Avenging Wrath with it -- which is almost never. They do have a PvE bug increasing their damage by a lot.

No bug helping their damage but few bugs helping them annoyingly outlast you.
-Sacred shield absorbs allot more damage than it should or the 6 sec cd doesn't work,not sure about the cause.( cd bug probably)
-Sacred cleansing removes all 5 stacks of deadly poison instead of 1 at a time negating allot of damage from envenom rogues
-"Sacred Cleansing should only give 30% resistance to Disease, Magic and Poison
Currently, i think it is giving resistance to everything. When SC is up, the attacker has a high chance to miss the target or to have his spells resisted which is very annoying."< from TC bugs (open)

MM Hunters: chimaera shot ignores resilience.I know this from many sources including myself.

Arms Warriors: They have absolutely no bug increasing their overall damage at all.

Wait what?..
To put it simply if you disarm a bladestorming warrior he will still be imune to everything a warrior with a weapon on would normally be immune + it still does like 1k per spin and thats allot. Its like 40%% of non crit bladestorm spin(1k on a rogue)

[Vaen]

-Sacred shield absorbs allot more damage than it should or the 6 sec cd doesn't work,not sure about the cause.( cd bug probably)

Damn I honestly don't understand where you get this from ? Have you tried putting sacred shield on some few NPC's, you would see what it REALLY means to have no cooldown on it. Sacred shield internal cooldown is working perfectly and the damage it's absorbing is not bugged. Internal cooldown of proc does NOT begin from the moment you break the shield but from the moment it procs.

[Discarnate]

Ret Paladins: They have no bug in PvP helping their damage unless they're using Seal of Corruption/Vengeance and used Avenging Wrath with it -- which is almost never. They do have a PvE bug increasing their damage by a lot.

No bug helping their damage but few bugs helping them annoyingly outlast you.
-Sacred shield absorbs allot more damage than it should or the 6 sec cd doesn't work,not sure about the cause.( cd bug probably)
-Sacred cleansing removes all 5 stacks of deadly poison instead of 1 at a time negating allot of damage from envenom rogues
-"Sacred Cleansing should only give 30% resistance to Disease, Magic and Poison
Currently, i think it is giving resistance to everything. When SC is up, the attacker has a high chance to miss the target or to have his spells resisted which is very annoying."< from TC bugs (open)

Sacred Shield is working as intended. Sacred Cleansing (which does not apply to Ret Paladins), on the hand, has been fishy. I tested the shield yesterday as well. It breaks after the correct amount of damage done and has an internal cooldown as well. But, as the OP asked for effects increasing damage abnormally, even if it was completely bugged, that still doesn't qualify.

You do know that it scales with the Paladin's Spell Power, right?

Also, an important thing to remember, the internal cooldown is 6 seconds. And, it doesn't start counting from the moment you break the shield but from the moment the previous shield was procced. If you cannot break it within 6 seconds, I'm afraid, you'll have to face another proc. It's annoying but it's just the game mechanism.

MM Hunters: chimaera shot ignores resilience.I know this from many sources including myself.

Arms Warriors: They have absolutely no bug increasing their overall damage at all.

Wait what?..
To put it simply if you disarm a bladestorming warrior he will still be imune to everything a warrior with a weapon on would normally be immune + it still does like 1k per spin and thats allot. Its like 40%% of non crit bladestorm spin(1k on a rogue)

I have seen Chimera Shot from the same person with the same buffs do amazingly different on different amount of resilience (4k total to 18k total ~ a bit too obvious, isn't it). I ask you for your sources of such information since I only trust the Trinity Core logs. The reason why Chimera Shot does more damage than retail is included in the link I gave above and NOT because of it "ignoring" resilience.

About Warriors: Yes, you read right. And, you got that part right. The warrior should stop spinning which he doesn't and thereby making it immune to CCs for the duration of the Bladestorm.

Hopefully, they'll fix it very soon, I have a /cancelaura macro for these things since I find no logical explanations of why a Warrior will want to keep on spinning after a Rogue disarmed him. He has no way to Shield Wall and is very vulnerable to hard switches. I can, perhaps, see this as an exploit of ignoring Mages' snares for a bit longer to reach a certain destination though.

And, the Warrior did 1k per whirlwind with his offhand fist on you? What were you wearing? Or more importantly, what was the Warrior wearing? The last time I checked, with very decent gear, it did like 280 to 300 (tested on a 1.1k resilience target) more damage per whirlwind on leather/mail. I believe, it was the combination of his main hand fist (which you now disarmed) and his offhand fist. Even then, it seems rather high. The total damage considering the maximum possibility doesn't even measure up to one single Mortal Strike. So. The Warrior should be canceling his Bladestorm under any of such condition and Intervene away, Intimidating Shout you or Piercing Howl you anyway. Otherwise, it's just free damage done on the Warrior with no defense from his side.

Either way, even if you're completely correct about that damage data, it's still on a 1.5 minutes cooldown unlike pretty much all other classes benefiting from various things on a much, MUCH shorter cooldown.

Hopefully, they get fixed though.

[Folkk]

Edit: I am sure that I am right but I can also be wrong.If I am don't rage at me ,I'm just trying to prove something from what I saw and confirmed by others , not to QQ or imply that I'm very familiar to game mechanics and I have a very good gameplay.Sorry if I seem cocky.

Vaen nerd btw.

Spoiler:

Ret Paladins: They have no bug in PvP helping their damage unless they're using Seal of Corruption/Vengeance and used Avenging Wrath with it -- which is almost never. They do have a PvE bug increasing their damage by a lot. [ No bug helping their damage but few bugs helping them annoyingly outlast you. -Sacred shield absorbs allot more damage than it should or the 6 sec cd doesn't work,not sure about the cause.( cd bug probably) -Sacred cleansing removes all 5 stacks of deadly poison instead of 1 at a time negating allot of damage from envenom rogues -"Sacred Cleansing should only give 30% resistance to Disease, Magic and Poison Currently, i think it is giving resistance to everything. When SC is up, the attacker has a high chance to miss the target or to have his spells resisted which is very annoying."< from TC bugs (open)[/quote

]

Sacred Shield is working as intended. Sacred Cleansing (which does not apply to Ret Paladins), on the hand, has been fishy. I tested the shield yesterday as well. It breaks after the correct amount of damage done and has an internal cooldown as well. But, as the OP asked for effects increasing damage abnormally, even if it was completely bugged, that still doesn't qualify.

You do know that it scales with the Paladin's Spell Power, right?

Also, an important thing to remember, the internal cooldown is 6 seconds. And, it doesn't start counting from the moment you break the shield but from the moment the previous shield was procced. If you cannot break it within 6 seconds, I'm afraid, you'll have to face another proc. It's annoying but it's just the game mechanism.

AT has been here for quite some time so its safe to assume that almost everything works.
So let me give you an example: On AT when I duel paladins (who outgear me) with my 5.6k gs rogue
I can actually manage to win duels,they are more squishy.Even if I do huge mistakes i still manage to get them below half hp.
Now on the other hand , here with similar gear to the rets I duel ,I cant even get them below half hp before I get killed, EVEN if I don't make any mistakes.
Greensmoker and Zaakira can back me up on this.

Spoiler:

MM Hunters: chimaera shot ignores resilience.I know this from many sources including myself. Arms Warriors: They have absolutely no bug increasing their overall damage at all. Wait what?.. To put it simply if you disarm a bladestorming warrior he will still be imune to everything a warrior with a weapon on would normally be immune + it still does like 1k per spin and thats allot. Its like 40%% of non crit bladestorm spin(1k on a rogue)

I have seen Chimera Shot from the same person with the same buffs do amazingly different on different amount of resilience (4k total to 18k total ~ a bit too obvious, isn't it). I ask you for your sources of such information since I only trust the Trinity Core logs. The reason why Chimera Shot does more damage than retail is included in the link I gave above and NOT because of it "ignoring" resilience.

8k or more crits on 1400 resil druid.
9k on myself 1k resil.
I don't think there is anyone who hadn't noticed the insane crits but whatever , if its not on trinity it doesn't exist right? Like we are perfectly synchronized with the tc content and everything should work flawlessly.

About Warriors: Yes, you read right. And, you got that part right. The warrior should stop spinning which he doesn't and thereby making it immune to CCs for the duration of the Bladestorm.

Hopefully, they'll fix it very soon, I have a /cancelaura macro for these things since I find no logical explanations of why a Warrior will want to keep on spinning after a Rogue disarmed him. He has no way to Shield Wall and is very vulnerable to hard switches. I can, perhaps, see this as an exploit of ignoring Mages' snares for a bit longer to reach a certain destination though.

And, the Warrior did 1k per whirlwind with his offhand fist on you? What were you wearing? Or more importantly, what was the Warrior wearing? The last time I checked, with very decent gear, it did like 280 to 300 (tested on a 1.1k resilience target) more damage per whirlwind on leather/mail. I believe, it was the combination of his main hand fist (which you now disarmed) and his offhand fist. Even then, it seems rather high. The total damage considering the maximum possibility doesn't even measure up to one single Mortal Strike. So. The Warrior should be canceling his Bladestorm under any of such condition and Intervene away, Intimidating Shout you or Piercing Howl you anyway. Otherwise, it's just free damage done on the Warrior with no defense from his side.

Either way, even if you're completely correct about that damage data, it's still on a 1.5 minutes cooldown unlike pretty much all other classes benefiting from various things on a much, MUCH shorter cooldown.

Hopefully, they get fixed though.

[/quote]
Yes I read right but it seems that you didn't.
No defense from his side? what? i just said that ccs that shouldn't work while bladestorming don't work on a disarmed warrior bladestorming (example: stun) where they should work.
That 1k dmg per spin was from from a decently geared warr and i had 1k resil.
I just had a bg when a shadowmourne warr (implies best gear) did 1500 (and one 2k critical) dmg per spin (1.5k) , thats one and a half thousand while beeing disarmed+ I had 1150 resil.We were 3 rogues surrounding him( he got double disarm) so I guess they can confirm too.

[Discarnate]

Don't get me wrong, buddy. I'm not an asshole. I know that you have genuine concerns about the situation and aren't just here to cry about big damage.

I read everything you said carefully. But, try to understand that I too am aware of the high damage done by Chimera Shot. But, the reason you mentioned of it, ignoring resilience, isn't what causes this inflated damage. The reason why it does so much damage is an aura stacking issue that gives double benefit from any and every percentage-based overall damage increasing aura, talent, buff, etc. I gave a link there which will describe the situation including a link to a very talked over, open issue from the logs.

This is the same with Hammer of the Righteous (Prot. Paladins) and Frost Strike (Frost DKs). You can clearly test it for yourself. Do a normal Frost Strike, pick up Berserk in a BG, do it again. You can test it in other ways too -- do it with Unholy Presence and then again with Blood Presence -- you will see a 30% increase on Frost Strike, not 15%. I'm sure you get the idea. All of these things stack as well.

There are talents modifying Chimera Shot's condition which causes it to do such high damage. But, this isn't the fault of resilience as a whole which is working fine. I just wanted you to know that, not that Chimera doesn't do ridiculous damage because it does.

And the thing about Sacred Cleansing, it's working fine on AT, but it is buggy in TrueWoW. So, Holy Paladins will give you troubles. But, Sacred Shield is really working normally to be honest. I did a 5k Mortal Strike on Divovski as soon as his Sacred Shield procced. 3.5k got absorbed, and I had free room to hit him for 6 seconds before another Shield popped up. That's an example of it working as intended. Remember that part -- the internal cooldown is put on the timer as soon as the absorb is procced, not when it's broken. If it isn't broken, it'll constantly be up. If you barely broke on the 4th second, you'll only have room of 2 seconds of naked DPS before it's up again.

And, yeah, I can see the denial to a full Dismantle on Warriors is causing you troubles. But, if it makes you feel any better, good Warriors are more scared of good Rogues than bad Warriors are of bad Rogues. =) And, I don't know about other Warriors, I personally don't use any Bladestorm at all for 80% of my matches -- almost never vs any Rogue team.

I sincerely hope, these bugs get ironed out. I'm used to retail/AT. Anything out of the ordinary makes me uncomfortable just like you. For example, did you know that Unholy has several negative bugs affecting its damage? Corpse Explosion radius, Scourge Strike damage being double dipped by resilience, and the fact that neither of the ghoul or Gargoyle scale with haste.

=)

[marko1984]

this is so far off topic...
lets help this guy..
there is bugs and always will be and i'm personally tired of QQing... (and i QQ more then most ppl)
just help the Boomkin guy!!!

[Boxis]

8k or more crits on 1400 resil druid.
9k on myself 1k resil.
I don't think there is anyone who hadn't noticed the insane crits but whatever , if its not on trinity it doesn't exist right? Like we are perfectly synchronized with the tc content and everything should work flawlessly.

No way to hit like that,unless that guy is in pve with t10 abuse or in bg with berserker.Tested it on several targets today and overall dmg on priest,shaman,druid,hunter with 1000-1345 resi was 2900-4600 crit (depends on resi-4.6 on hunt 2.9-3.8kcrit on druid,shaman) and around 2-2.5k crit with serpent part of it,even on green with 833resi i did 5.5k crit and 2.7k serpent part crit what is high but still not 9k ,though sometimes can happen if u hit with all procs on some leather/cloth then it quite hurts :d.But still this dmg is like 5% higher than on at if i equip same gear,because of above mentioned buffs/talents.Not defending hunters,just telling that chimera is supposed to hit hard if u gem/spec right,and if u have poison dispeller in your team then it really shouldnt be any problem for you since he can dispell serpent 24/7 and without serpent part you as hunter will either go oom>means you need to go into viper>means less dmg- and also chimera itself wont be too dangerous for you without it(seen it on hpally/rshammy).

[Emcee]

Lol, Warriors don't even have bugged damage aside from Fury. Arms damage works fine. Whoever told you Warrior damage in PvP (assuming at least 90% of Warriors are Arms) is bugged lied to you.

And to Folkk, Bladestorm not being disarmed is just Bladestorm being bugged. You can't compare that to say, Hunters, and say that Warrior damage is bugged. Also, any Warrior can just /cancelaura Bladestorm (macro) once disarmed and play fairly, but unfortunately not all of them will do that.

[Liebe]

Ha! So many replies, thank you! Actually all this info is important for balance PVP, so it's not off topic at all. After reading it all I've decinded to continue leveling.

And yeah, moonkins in Wrath should be played with spirit gear and non-crit spec - I cry every time I see a fully geared owl stacking crit and picking talents like Eclipse :S.

Thanks again, seems like a great community you have there.

EDIT: About Typhoon LoS abuse, don't really know what's the culture here - do people typically get reported and banned for abusing bugs in arena? It's not that I want or plan to abuse it, but if a warrior won't cancel Bladestorm and use it just to get back on me, the last thing on my mind would be NOT to, say, blow his healer to the open through a pillar :3.

I'm also guessing that Starfall works through LoS, so that's pretty big by itself.

[Liebe]

Also lol, I love how we all have a gladiator helmet near our nicks - everyone on a private server is a retail gladiator, mright?

[Discarnate]

Wrong. PvP titles, in this server, are distributed in retail calculations. We only have Challengers, Rivals and Duelists. We have no Gladiators because the population doesn't allow it. Any Gladiator that you may see around has achieved the title through non-Blizzlike terms and from other servers. Do not forget -- two other servers have merged into us. We also have no titles in 2v2 here.

So, no, the titles gained from TrueWoW are suitable and normal.

Also, I'm glad that you understand the Spirit part. But, it doesn't boggle my mind when I see Balance Druids running around in Crit gear because, how will they learn if they don't competitively play it in arena or consult world class PvPers' reasons behind it? So, it's okay.

P.S. Some of the people that replied in your thread are some of the very best PvPers in the server.

Have fun leveling.