Overpowered Classes in PVP

[Shave]

I think some classes should get somekind of a balance asap, Shadowpriests are insanely OP along with Frostmages and Hunters and Warlocks.

[Zanmato]

3 out of the 4 you meantioned are "countered" by dispells. Unfortunatly having 2v2 WSG or 4v4AB the odds of having someone with dispels in your team is pretty low, especially for the horde where only priests can do it as opposed to alliance having pallys aswell.

WoW was never meant to be balanced for smale scale skirmishes, that's why some classes might seem slightly overpowered in a 1v1 or 2v2 scenario.

[Shave]

Its not just about DMG but Survivability, Frost mages get double Iceblock, Icebarrier, blinks, a melee class cant even touch them.

[Zanmato]

Frost mages have always had the upper hand vs melee. That's just how the game has worked for the last 10 years.

Enh shamans can be somewhat annoying to them due to ranged interrupts or grounding;
Proper rogues can be annoying aswell if they got all their cooldowns up (including preparation). I can't remember, do rogues get the silence component in their garrote till 60 ?
A good feral should actually give a mage an extremelly hard time if they shift properly.
If you're a warrior, then you're out of luck, as they were never designed to have a favorable matchup vs a frost mage.

EDIT: I've seen Grand Marshal warriors from our old premades back in the day reroll mages due to the frustration of fighting them during their grinds. Whatever class or spec you like playing, just don't give up on it just cause class X or Y gives you a hard time. Keep going at it and eventually you're turn around those 10/90 odds into something like 40/60.

[Shave]

Rogues have no CoS, no silence on garrote ,no shadowstep, they cant even touch them.

[.Sorrugis]

3 out of the 4 you meantioned are "countered" by dispells. Unfortunatly having 2v2 WSG or 4v4AB the odds of having someone with dispels in your team is pretty low, especially for the horde where only priests can do it as opposed to alliance having pallys aswell.

WoW was never meant to be balanced for smale scale skirmishes, that's why some classes might seem slightly overpowered in a 1v1 or 2v2 scenario.

The problem with that is that if this server takes the same route as true wow, then 2v2 arena is what will decide who gets the rating for the best gear, due to the low population.

Do we then balance around this in mind, or accept this and only allow those with the strong class comps get the rewards?

Even with dispels though, unless you have 3+ people sitting on a warlock they feel impossible to take down. Their multiple self heals feel way too strong in comparison to healing on its own, because of the debuff. Besides that, I'm pretty sure their felpups are bugged. I know there are talents to increase their attack speed, but they are freaking out in seizure mode attacking SUPER fast.

After fighting a few locks in 2s, even with a dispel I'm starting to think it's statistically impossible to beat a lock / healer team with my current comp.

Rock paper scissors, but the warlock rock right now is more of a boulder.

I'm curious, where do you see frost mage being too strong? You are the first person I've seen mention magi being imbalanced.

[Cleofatra]

I'd have to agree with Sorrugis/Pliny. The warlock survivability seems really strong atm. Often times you will have 2-3 people on a warlock and they still don't go down. Add a healer into the equation and NO TY!

4k hp + 1200 heatlhstone + 20% soul link + death coil + drain life = 6720 unbuffed hp.

This is all assuming 0 spell damage, not casting drain life, decent stam/pvp gear (maybe a piece or two of tier 1 and an honor piece), and the normal soul link pvp spec. Seems a TAD strong to me since it is not effected by healing debuff

edit: Also I forgot talents, they for sure have a 6% decreased damage talent also so throw that into the mix if you like.

[.Sorrugis]

I'd have to agree with Sorrugis/Pliny. The warlock survivability seems really strong atm. Often times you will have 2-3 people on a warlock and they still don't go down. Add a healer into the equation and NO TY!

4k hp + 1200 heatlhstone + 20% soul link + death coil + drain life = 6720 unbuffed hp.

This is all assuming 0 spell damage, decent stam/pvp gear (maybe a piece or two of tier 1 and an honor piece), and the normal soul link pvp spec. Seems a TAD strong to me since it is not effected by healing debuff

Indeed. In 2s kept a healer completely locked down with Sheep --> Sheep --> Counterspell --> Fear, then with dispels on myself, power infusion and all of my cooldowns popped still couldn't even dent the Warlock.

[Zanmato]

TL;DR: I agree with warlock's being extremelly strong as of now... but maybe there's a reason for it?

Please help me understand as i feel slightly confused right now.

Right now, damage >> received << while in PvP gets reduced by 33%, as explained by Prime:

Player damage will not be directly debuffed but players will receive a buff that decreases their incoming damage. It works like having a 66% version of Divine Protection active at all times.

Wait, how much is the damage and healing debuff In PvP? It sounds like 33%, but I just want to make sure.

Yes it's 33%.

According to Prime, mechanics such as rage gained from damage dealt are/should not be affected. What i'm fearing right now is that mechanics that generate healing from damage dealt (Siphon Life, Death Coil, Vampiric Embrace and Devouring Plague comes to mind) are getting the full benefict from the damage dealt (because its not the damage dealt that is getting debuffed, right?).

So a warlock is receiving 33% less damage (not accounting for Soul Link or other talents) but gaining full benefect from self healing ? If this is the case, then the same would apply to Shadow Priest i would guess, and that would be the reason why they seem to have such an insane survivability. Their self healing would need to be brought down to be accommodated to the reduced damage received.


Maybe Prime could clarify.


EDIT: Fixed the reduction values as they were reflecting PvE values instead of the PvP ones.

[Shave]

Good frost mages will be the most OP creatures you could ever encounter if it stays like this.The reason is simply that some classes get nearly NOTHING from the current talent trees.The last point you get as a Rogue is Premeditation, you cant compare this ability with Cold Snap, and Ice Barrier.Sure rogues get another vanish but still the amount of cc , slow and survability Mages have is INSANE

[Cleofatra]

I'm not gonna go into the theorycrafting of everything but it is 100% possible or a rogue to 1v1 a mage even with Ice Barrier and Ice Block. Coming from a player who played Mage for about 1.5 years on a vanilla server- I won about 80% of my 'duels' against rogues but could lose to a good rogue who knew when to blind/trinket/etc and pop things like improved sprint/vanish/cold blood.

Is it rough? yes.
Doable? If you play it ~perfectly and use lots of CDs to match the Mage using CDs.

Some hints that used to annoy the crap out of me as mage:
1. Use Blind if they blink out of your cheap shot/kidney and just restealth, no need for vanish. This guarantees their blink is on CD for your next stun combo.
2. If they ice block just go behind a tree and bandage, or bandage in their face.

[Zanmato]

Or if you're feeling ballsy, gouge his blink.

[Shave]

Iam not here to argue, ask any of the top rogues atm, they will tell you their opinion.

[Roel]

Vanilla doesn't really offer the best balance in PvP and neither does level 60 twinking in WotLK. Obviously we want to provide the best balance but it's hard to judge what actually needs to be balanced. From what I have seen, literally every class has been declared overpowered in some way.

I am not yet sure if warlocks gain the full benefit from self healing in PvP, it's something that would need to be tested. If they do then it might be better if all classes get the healing debuff, at least in PvP.

[.Sorrugis]

Or if you're feeling ballsy, gouge his blink.

50g to the first pro to do that to me.

Haven't seen anyone do that since good ol' Sniffles.