Battlegrounds

Discuss Player versus Player mechanics and tactics with both stout friends and vanquished foes from the battlefield.
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Auric

Battlegrounds

#1 » Post by Auric » 31 Mar 2015 14:55

Alright these are my opinions and suggestions, based on my observations of the battlegrounds on this realm. This isn't a QQ post, so calm yourself. My intention ain't to insult anyone here either, but give tips to those who need them and some suggestions aswell. This is just my personal subjective opinion, so think whatever you want of it :) I'll try to do this respectfully as possible, so there's no flame wars etc and people can give feedback here and discuss things in a mature way. The points may seem in a random order. This is from the perspective of an alliance player.

1)The pvp balance / as far as bgs go) is obviously quite tilted. Checking my own statistics, i saw that alliance had won about 20% of the bgs that i'd been in. I'd been in nearly 50 bgs.
2)As i'm writing this, i see that 14 H are queued and 2 A. It seems like a spiraling thing, because A don't queue up, because they know they're gonna loose and hence the ones that do queue up, shall be outnumbered and they will loose and then they won't queue up either, because they saw that they lost and on aand on it goes until there's noone to queue up.
3)Do horde players really get any challenge out of defeating allies in almost every bg, because they outnumber them? I mean what sort of fun is there to be had from that? Pretty boring imho. I'm not accusing horde, because they obviously can't do anything about the fact that they outnumber allies, so i understand that ofc...but haven't you thought about faction changing into ally, or rolling some ally chars? With that we could restore the balance and have more ppl queue up and have real fun in the bgs.
4)Horde teams usually:
*have well geared ppl ( and actual PVP gear with resilience, not typical allies with their 6 k icc gear who think they're tough, yet get rekt in 3 secs because they lack resilience)
*have healers
*have teamwork (as in cc allies, nuke the same target with several ppl instead of nuking different targets to no effect, help other players of their faction with buffs, offheals, cc etc)
5)Alliance teams usually:
*have well geared ppl too, although i call them "geared nubs" - because they use pve gear with 0 res and get dropped like flies and then they moan about other allies not having enough gs. Do these ppl not understand that it doesn't matter if you have good pve gear ( yes you can do more damage and it all depends on your def cds/class/skill etc ), because you will DIE FAST with 0 RES. Get PVP gear.
*Also just a few days ago i was in WSG with sub 5 k gs and i was almost first in dam done, i was first in hks and 4th in heals and defended 1 flag too, yet there were 14-16 ppl in there, most of whom were higher geared. What does that say? It says that you need to get SKILL (which means a lot of things put together) instead of whining about gear.
*they almost never have any healers and when they do it's some useless clowns, who don't heal, or get rekt by horde because other allies never protect them
*have 0 teamwork, no buffs, no offheals ( seems that shadowpriests, ret/prot paladins, enh/ele shamans and feral/balance druids don't understand that although they're not specced for it, THEY CAN STILL HEAL ), no help whatsoever to other players.
6)Why don't more ppl (specially in alliance) roll healers? It's such a fun role and much more challenging then dps. You're not gonna win without healers. If you have 10 dps and the horde has 9 dps +1 healer, they will win.
7)I'm not claiming to be some "uber leet pro", but i know how to play. Played since TBC and done a lot of stuff, raided, played arena, had around 100 k HK on my main, played in retail and in privates. Now here's the thing, when i go healer mode, ppl around me don't seem to do any damage. When i do dps, noone is healing. This may sound funny, but that's honestly how it feels every fucking time. When i dps, i get to a horde and their health goes DOWN fast, when others dps, it feels like they're flies running around doing 0 damage... like how is it even possible to do such low dam? Target the enemy and press your buttons lol. When i heal, i keep ppl and myself ALIVE, i fakecast, i line of sight the enemies ( why are so many nub healers in the forefront of battle anyway? Stay behind ffs) and i pop them cds, trinkets, and HEAL. That's what your role is in a bg, you keep yourself alive and you keep everyone else alive, buffed and supported, while ALSO trying to cc the enemy as much as possible and bloody help with dps ( you CAN do damage as a healer). Right now it feels like the few healers that allies have, just run around, don't heal and are never there when you need them to and always get killed so fast. I remember running from one end of WSG to the other with 3 enemy dps on me in retail and i kept myself alive and kept EVERYONE alive.
8)What's up with alliance in WSG jumping off the GY cliff into horde players? Like you have 6 allies in midfield, now let's say 3 of them die and are wiaitng to be ressed. Now let's say they ress and start going back to midfield...by the time they get there, the other 3 have died and are now in the GYT waiting their turn to be ressed. Guess what happens to the 3 clowns that just jumped down, instead of logically understanding that those other 3 are gonna die soon too and waiting for them? They get outnumbered and REKT and this keeps on going until the bg is lost. WAIT until all have ressed, then BUFF and then go in as a SINGLE group!
9)I'm not aware what the price of faction change is, but the staff should monitor things such as balance in bgs and make it so that the faction change is way cheaper for the side that's winning too much. Then hordes (not all of them, becasue then it would just be vice versa with allies winning every time) could change to ally and that would also bring other ppl who were too afraid to queue before, into the bgs.
10)The bgs are meant to get honor and buy pvp gear, but right now allies can only dream of that. So how are we supposed to get gear? Bloody furious from the triumphs? What about the rest of the offset gear? Bloody stone keepers shards lol?
11)Alliance wins Alterac Valley in every server, every time almost, but here we get owned even in there. I mean why are you ppl running around randomly? Go kill the miniboss, grab the towers and kill the end boss...what's so hard about that? Even when we have equal numbers we get owned. This bg has been out for 11 years and ppl still don't know how to play it LOL.



12)So in summary:
*Allies get HEALERS
*Some hordes should reroll to ally, because they won't have anyone to play against if this keeps going. Also the queue times for horde suffer from this overpopulation, allies get them instantly.
*Get PVP gear and get SKILL, because clearly some ppl with lower gear are doing much more in the bg then your typical nubs who get carried through icc and think because they won a roll on a piece of gear, they're now badass.

Thanks for reading. If you made it to the end, you have an attention spam that surpasses that of most people these days :)

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Justicelight
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Re: Battlegrounds

#2 » Post by Justicelight » 31 Mar 2015 15:09

You're not gonna win without healers.
Support class can sustain the entire bg if the dps is strong enough.
This bg has been out for 11 years and ppl still don't know how to play it LOL.
Doesn't matter since when it was released, it matters since when people start to play it.


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belendor
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Re: Battlegrounds

#3 » Post by belendor » 31 Mar 2015 15:19

alliance doesn't have healers? O.o
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Wilcox
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Re: Battlegrounds

#4 » Post by Wilcox » 31 Mar 2015 15:35

belendor wrote:alliance doesn't have healers? O.o
lol... everyone has healers its the attitude of others that make healers sick of queuing. nobody coverw you, you're entirely on your own and the battleground objective is mission impossible

i have been experiencing the exact same things as you, op, but sadly there isnt much to do about it. i see only a couple of solutions.

first one is like you suggested, a volunteering group transfers to alliance

second one, make it free to transfer to alliance once again

third one is temporary, queue with a premade group of people you know so you wont have to rip your hair off each time you lose, at least you will have fun.


belendor you know very well how each time we faced each other in a battleground, i gave relentless efforts to make my team win, so much that sometimes you would log on an ally toon to say 'woah finally you died lol' its really not going to get any better unless people change themselves

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Fastor
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Re: Battlegrounds

#5 » Post by Fastor » 31 Mar 2015 15:58

Auric wrote: 12)So in summary:
*Allies get HEALERS
*Some hordes should reroll to ally, because they won't have anyone to play against if this keeps going. Also the queue times for horde suffer from this overpopulation, allies get them instantly.
*Get PVP gear and get SKILL, because clearly some ppl with lower gear are doing much more in the bg then your typical nubs who get carried through icc and think because they won a roll on a piece of gear, they're now badass.
- Allies have healers, very good ones. Problem is they got tired of other people around them.
- Some allies that came horde should return ally.
- tinyurl.com/startpvp

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Auric

Re: Battlegrounds

#6 » Post by Auric » 31 Mar 2015 16:52

Justicelight: Yes it's obvious allies have some healers, i also pointed that out, but obviously not enough compared to the masses of wannabe dps :)
Not sure by what you mean with "support class can sustain an entire bg. Also the dps is NOT strong enough :)

Belendor: They do, as i also pointed out before, but not enough compared to the mass of wannabe dps :)

Wilcox: Hmm indeed, the other players usually fail to protect the healers and when i played as a healer (not in this realm) it always seemed to me like noone was doing any REAL damage to the enemies so my healing felt pointless. The premade idea probably ain't gonna happen though.

Fastor:Never seen any good ally healer in a bg, maybe it's just a coindicence. Some hordes should indeed come to ally.

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ItchyVortex
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Re: Battlegrounds

#7 » Post by ItchyVortex » 31 Mar 2015 17:06

Ally doesnt lack healers, ally lacks teamplay overall and maybe a bit of gears. Ive seen players "underperform" in alliance and cooperate well at horde for some reason.
And ive also had enough bg's where alliance was crowded with healers, but our damage was not even enough to scratch their frontline.
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Fretykso
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Re: Battlegrounds

#8 » Post by Fretykso » 31 Mar 2015 17:17

@ topic author - if you wanna blame anyone, blame blizz for not making triple talent spec (its been made in WoD I think). Not the ppl who don't wanna change their specs every 5 min for every raid and bg (like me for example) ^_^

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Fastor
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Re: Battlegrounds

#9 » Post by Fastor » 31 Mar 2015 17:30

Not triple, better is multy. lm mage and l need 5 talent sets D:
Six if l start fire in pvp.

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Justicelight
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Re: Battlegrounds

#10 » Post by Justicelight » 31 Mar 2015 17:37

Fastor:Never seen any good ally healer in a bg, maybe it's just a coindicence. Some hordes should indeed come to ally.
A healer's potential can be fully obtained in bg only when the dps shields him and protects him.
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"I write about the power of trying, because I want to be okay with failing. I write about generosity because I battle selfishness. I write about joy because I know sorrow. I write about faith because I almost lost mine, and I know what it is to be broken and in need of redemption. I write about gratitude because I am thankful - for all of it."

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belendor
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Re: Battlegrounds

#11 » Post by belendor » 31 Mar 2015 19:43

Wilcox wrote:
belendor wrote:alliance doesn't have healers? O.o
lol... everyone has healers its the attitude of others that make healers sick of queuing. nobody coverw you, you're entirely on your own and the battleground objective is mission impossible

i have been experiencing the exact same things as you, op, but sadly there isnt much to do about it. i see only a couple of solutions.

first one is like you suggested, a volunteering group transfers to alliance

second one, make it free to transfer to alliance once again

third one is temporary, queue with a premade group of people you know so you wont have to rip your hair off each time you lose, at least you will have fun.


belendor you know very well how each time we faced each other in a battleground, i gave relentless efforts to make my team win, so much that sometimes you would log on an ally toon to say 'woah finally you died lol' its really not going to get any better unless people change themselves
nigga, u took 2 hrs to die D: ofc i log in to wisp ya :p
but ye, you've tried so many times to get alliance get the win. I doubt that many people on horde like me in bgs since i spam chat like crazy, 'kill this guy', 'dispel me now' ect :p and ofc the rage :D
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No need to mention the other paladins.

Best word in west flemish 'toetoet'

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Wilcox
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Re: Battlegrounds

#12 » Post by Wilcox » 31 Mar 2015 22:01

so yeah i think thats it for this topic, there isnt much to do unless players decide themselves. like i said i gave up on queuing after a long while of trying tirelessly, everything regarding pvp quality just went worse and worse, at a point i just said 'fuck this its not even fair'. allied players affect you more than enemy players so if you got a shit team to begin with, god bless your patience

i remember a time where 10-79 passage interfactions was free and i had a level 69 rogue that i kept switching factions with so i could join battlegrounds, i think this should be implemented again, and pasaage to alliance at 80 should be either free or discounted. no sane person will give 500wp to join the losing side so come on

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Torcano
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Re: Battlegrounds

#13 » Post by Torcano » 01 Apr 2015 06:39

IDK, the once or twice a week that I log ingame nowadays the bgs seem to go quite well on alliance... it isn't as terrible as it used to be now that is for sure. But alliance in general lack teamplay, and the "lowbies on alliance" excuse doesn't really work because hordies have lowbies too and most of them actually try to do objectives and work with the geared ones rather than run in rambo style to get one shotted and leave right after 2 deaths. And alliance don't exactly have determined geared people that bg all day long like horde has, so most of the time it comes down to experienced hordies facing inexperienced allies leading to the illusion that horde is somehow too stronk. More often than not the bgs are actually quite balanced during peak times from what I saw. Horde has more than enough bg people anyway and that is why I play on alliance. Asking hordies to switch to alliance to help balance bgs is just a pathetic begging exercise and nobody really in their right mind would switch anyway, if people learned how to coordinate and work together then all this hassle won't exactly be necessary. :)
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Auric

Re: Battlegrounds

#14 » Post by Auric » 01 Apr 2015 08:02

ItchyVortex: Well in my experience (which granted, hasn't been that big on this realm) i haven't met any good healers, i've seen very few healers in general. Maybe it's just a coincidence. Also you're right about the dps, they can't even scratch the horde frontline. Also they don't have the brains to nuke the same target, they all go for different people and noone ever notices the horde healers who just keep everyone alive while standing 10 m behind the horde dps. The alliance player's lack of situational awareness astounds me.

Fretykso: I don't want to blame anyone, but just point out my observations and give suggestions that could improve the situation, but you're right about the triple spec, that would indeed be useful. Can you imagine the solo spec back in the day? That was hardcore :D

Justicelight: I didn't need much protection in retail because i had brains, i LoS-ed the enemy, stayed behind friendly dps to be out of range and generally just kept myself alive and kept everyone else alive. A good healer should be able to do that even without protection, but indeed the protection from dps helps. The thing is, that alliance here seems to lack all teamwork so i'm not amazed if healers quit because they try their hardest and noone helps them. Dps don't seem to realize that if the healer dies, they die...usually. Well allies die all the time anyway because they roll in pve gear :D

Wilcox: indeed the staff should monitor such things better and reduce the price of facton changing into alliance and not by a marginal amount either.

Torcano: I would say that even during peak times they're not balanced. An example from yesterday: Both factions in EoTs had 13 players. A few minutes after the start of the bg horde had the flag + all four bases and allies were either leaving, afk-ing on top of the starting cliff or the few that were on the field still, were getting rekt. I agree about horde having dedicated pvpers, allies just seem to have random people with mainly pve gear and no teamwork and no healers usually.
This has got nothing to do with a "pathetic begging exercise". It's simply a suggestion to provide more balance to the game and i've seen it work on other realms. The horde suffer from this themselves, because of their prolonged queue times. Having 2 allies and 14 hordes queued = good luck with your long wait time horde. I think plenty of people would switch once they begin to see that there's barely anyone to fight against, because no allies are joining the bg because they know they'll loose and so horde queue times increase even more and when they do get a bg it's a boring win. Specially the pvp oriented people.


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