Karazhan Illhoof

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Anesthesia
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#16 » Post by Anesthesia » 13 Oct 2017 15:05

Dunkelstein wrote:
13 Oct 2017 13:19
They just move too inconsistently, sometimes one or two run straight into ranged camp after spawning, sometimes five or more all at once.
What is your tank doing?
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flosr1
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#17 » Post by flosr1 » 13 Oct 2017 15:21

i guess you people did either not properly read what i wrote or seem not to understand what is sometimes going on in that fight. yesterday we really had everything in that fight that could be wrong. and not only for 1 try, i think it was 4 tries and we had similar issues last week, despite having a proper group yesterday and last week with enough single target dps and aoe dps.

the imps were just nuking away the raid in some tries, even tho we had - like Dunkelstein mentioned - constant AOE from 3 players on them. They melee dps people in a distance over half of the room. Despite having constant AOE on them, we had around 20-30 Imps up all the time.

Tank and Melees were attacking the chains and they still healed up to full HP in less then a second. As this happened last week too, this seems not to be an unlucky coincidence.

And btw. stop giving shitty replies and deny facts. This whiteknighting from some people with a special forum rank makes me sick and is exactly the reasons that annoys people so much about staff.
Last edited by flosr1 on 13 Oct 2017 20:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Fitzpatrick
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#18 » Post by Fitzpatrick » 13 Oct 2017 15:34

Im not saying youre lieing, but Im skeptical about how many imps you say youre having. Im not sure ive seen more 4 imps at once in my last 4 or 5 runs. Honestly there are times when the imps are dieing as the next round is spawning.

Imps also tend to move after stuns. Did you have multiple paladins using holy wrath or a destro warlock? That could explain the erratic behavior.

There is this thing going on these days where people say classes/specs/fights are underpowered/overtuned/whatever, but as soon as anyone points out problems with their approach, they get defensive af. Its called progression for a reason. Find your flaws, fix them, improve. Just nerfing everything into submission sounds quite unrewarding, unless all one cares about is loot.
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Dunkelstein
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#19 » Post by Dunkelstein » 13 Oct 2017 15:40

Anesthesia wrote:
13 Oct 2017 15:05
What is your tank doing?
Focusing on boss and chains, of course. Not 100% sure about every ability Elarim was using, are you saying some tank abilities (demo shout/roar) are affecting the imp melee bugs? I don't think tanks or melees were using any swipes/cleaves if that's what you mean.

Just because some people share their workarounds does not mean they are all against nerfs/tuning/bugfixing, flosr1.
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flosr1
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#20 » Post by flosr1 » 13 Oct 2017 15:50

if you call 20-40 imps that are oneshotting dps and healers normal and if you also call it normal that those are up all the time due to 3 heave AOE dps'ers thatn there is clearly something wrong. it is not about nerfing stuff, it is about making the stuff work as it is supposed to work. and atm, it is clearly NOT. arguments, like bringing up lvl 60 blue geared chars and clearing it aswell as it being part of progression are clearly wrong here, we are not some "fun guild" and know how to do stuff.

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Anesthesia
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#21 » Post by Anesthesia » 13 Oct 2017 15:52

Im assuming (because imps are running to the casters after spawning) that your tank is not generating enough AoE threat, as you just said "I don't think tanks or melees were using any swipes/cleaves";
flosr1 wrote:
13 Oct 2017 00:19
Also (and here comes the tuning part) way too many adds are spawning and it feels they also do too much dmg.
> How can we tune anything when your tank had no control over the adds.

EDIT;
> https://i.imgur.com/Dg9Osyr.png
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Dunkelstein
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#22 » Post by Dunkelstein » 13 Oct 2017 15:55

Fitzpatrick wrote:
13 Oct 2017 15:34
Imps also tend to move after stuns. Did you have multiple paladins using holy wrath or a destro warlock? That could explain the erratic behavior.
Nope
Fitzpatrick wrote:
13 Oct 2017 15:34
There is this thing going on these days where people say classes/specs/fights are underpowered/overtuned/whatever, but as soon as anyone points out problems with their approach, they get defensive af. Its called progression for a reason. Find your flaws, fix them, improve. Just nerfing everything into submission sounds quite unrewarding, unless all one cares about is loot.
This is not about nerfs but about a bugged encounter. The 'nerfs' are just suggested to be bandaids and workarounds for the bugs.
You haven't pointed out a single 'flaw with our approach' yet.
Like I said we were unprepared that night, with people filling on alts and so on, but we are not clueless :roll:
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Dunkelstein
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#23 » Post by Dunkelstein » 13 Oct 2017 15:58

Anesthesia wrote:
13 Oct 2017 15:52
> How can we tune anything when your tank had no control over the adds.
I think we were actively trying to avoid tank aggro over the adds, because they melee him for too much.
Will give it a try next time.
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flosr1
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#24 » Post by flosr1 » 13 Oct 2017 16:07

if this encounter would work correctly with Kil'rek spawning as he should chains working properly and Imps spawning properly/doing normal damage, this encounter would have been a one shot as it was all the weeks before those 2 weeks. it is not like we did the boss for the first time or we only do it ocasionally, we usually one shot most bosses there.

how does aggoring Imps or not explain 20-40 of them being up all the time? And no, i am not lying on this.

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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#25 » Post by Skembic » 13 Oct 2017 16:28

I usually stay away from these kind of topics because eventually it comes to clashing between guilds or some third stuff that is not important at given moment. I was there in those runs that flosr1 is mentioning. If any of us said "nerf" it wasn't in context of nerf boss please we can't kill, nerf please. We are talking about some stuff that should/shouldn't work like that. Yes, fact is, we had alts in that run, but we had mains as AoErs, still shittone of adds. Yes, i noticed in last 3 weeks various tries, how u can get 2-3 adds in one wave, then 1 add, then all of sudden full room of adds. Not sure if it's supposed to work like that or not, but i highly doubt it. You can correct me if i am wrong. Kil'rek not spawning at all, last 5-6 tries. Everybody just saying nuke the boss without it, but what's his purpose then ? You can still correct me if i am wrong when i say that you kinda need him? About damage on AoE people or healers, didn't really pay atention because i was pissed how amazingly those tries went. Maybe there were mistakes from our side, noone is trying to cover something up, but a lot of things didn't work out as in previous runs.
We are not doing this for first time, we had that content on farm so much like everyone else if not more than others at one point. So please, those comments that go like "i do it with my guild, so must be all fine, your guild or people are problem" is pure bias. Either you gonna look into this or not, but commenting like that is not helping.

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Fitzpatrick
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#26 » Post by Fitzpatrick » 13 Oct 2017 16:38

Ive never seen imps spawn any way other than 2 by 2. If that was the case it seems to me a bugtracker report would be better than asking for a tuning pass. Perhaps even record the glitched encounter. Im sorry you seemed to have gotten unlucky, but if you just say you had tons of imps, people will naturally assume your dps was failing. As to Kilrek, there is already an issue up on the bugtracker, but he is absolutely not required to win. As Theblomb said, every group Ive been in has just ignored him after week 1.
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flosr1
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#27 » Post by flosr1 » 13 Oct 2017 16:39

Fitzsimmons, you brought up a similar argument when i complained back then with heroics being buggy. You wrote something like "people in my guild are already BIS geared an have heroics on farm" Do you assume we are too stupid to handle heroics or stuff like that? With argumentation like that you are clearly disqualifiyng yourself as a MPV rank. Back then, i had around 500 heroic badges, after a few weeks (that is after having bought the gear for 3 different specs. Still i was not able to get a few remaining BIS pieces due to bosses being bugged or not dropping loot at all.

And now you are bringing up a similar argumentation.

Also, if you guys are so smart, i would like to see you tank 40 Imps and survive it.
Last edited by flosr1 on 13 Oct 2017 16:48, edited 1 time in total.

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natnat123
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#28 » Post by natnat123 » 13 Oct 2017 16:39

Theblomb wrote:
13 Oct 2017 09:51
The chains resetting health is most likely due to the thing Fitz mentioned, when a caster out of range gets aggro on them, they can't reach the player and starts evading.
This has nothing to do with it. In our group. Melee handle the chains pretty much every time and it can still happen. The chains don't aggro anyone

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Dunkelstein
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#29 » Post by Dunkelstein » 13 Oct 2017 16:44

Fitzpatrick wrote:
13 Oct 2017 16:38
Ive never seen imps spawn any way other than 2 by 2. If that was the case it seems to me a bugtracker report would be better than asking for a tuning pass.
flosr1 wrote:
13 Oct 2017 00:19
I am not really sure where to write this, because i have posted similar things like that on the bug tracker before, but was told then not do it because, it is tuning and not bugs. i think in this case it is both.
You are still missing the point, nobody is asking for a 'pass'
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Anesthesia
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Re: Karazhan Illhoof

#30 » Post by Anesthesia » 13 Oct 2017 16:48

Skembic wrote:
13 Oct 2017 16:28
Kil'rek not spawning at all, last 5-6 tries. Everybody just saying nuke the boss without it, but what's his purpose then ?
His death puts a debuff on Illhoof - https://truewow.org/armory/spell.php?id=30065&realm=p
At some point (higher DPS) it is faster to kill Illhoof if focusing on Kil'rek, if you think his HP is too high please bring more attention to https://truewow.org/bugs/view.php?id=6165
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