The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

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nevo200
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The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#1 » Post by nevo200 » 05 Jul 2017 03:34

This is a post about how the introduction of Pw killed Tw's population.

We all know Tw's PoP is at historic lows and this is for a bunch of reasons, many of which are out of our control.
I think the biggest new factor is Pw and its increase in population.
As I've said before a lot of people here are fans of truewow and wotlk. So that people will play what they want and Pw isn't pure 3.3.5a by any means at all ... but the Tw community is present there and for a snowball effect of a reason it can quite easily have leached the Tw pop to near death.

See when you can't find anybody to get rbg's or rhcs/raids going on Tw, even if that's what you want to play, players will go to the next best thing, especially if it's brought to you by a company they already want to support.

Nyeriah
as aforementioned, players who want WotLK will play at TrueWoW. Those looking for an abstraction of Vanilla running on a WotLK server, will go for PrimalWoW. And those who want a Vanilla server, would probably be more suited at a Vanilla server.

What I'm trying to say is that if things didn't change so far, they surely won't be changing now. So don't expect an exodus or migration of any sorts. It might make it easier for players to check out either realm but that's rather harmless.

When the active populations of Tw/Pw were more equal it was less noticeable. But Tw's population was on the decline at the time Pw was added to the realmlist. Many players already couldn't find others to get things done and had other games logged on the side.
When Pw was opened it gave many players an opportunity to to level on a new (Tw) server. Now this was great for the low level community of Pw, but at this time Tw needed as many players to stay online as possible.
See when people are online it give others hope that something will come along to do, so that they stay online and it snowballs.. this can also happen is reverse.
This can happen to any server unless they are kept relatively separate or there is a massive population that wont notice the difference.

Even a really shitty instant 80 server linked to Tw realmlist could have been terrible for the population if it had bg's going during tw deadtimes; as the same thing would have happened and deadtimes would have grown.

I'm not sure if the staff care about Tw population anymore or if maybe they even encourage the shift in PoP to Pw as leveling players provide a much better auction house, dungeon and rbg community.
Will Truewow just become Primalwow?

Roal
But we're talking about something that's still supposed to be 5+ years into the future. Most of our current players won't even be playing until then but there will (hopefully) be new players who will be playing instead. Population is also an important factor and the majority will basically win when the vote for PvP v PvE comes. TrueWoW currently has more players but that doesn't mean that all of them want PvP or that all PrimalWoW players want PvE. Anyway I really wouldn't worry too much about it at this point in time, that merge doesn't even need to happen, it's just a safeguard to keep long-term population in check.

Either way i'm really sad to see populations getting as low as they have been for Tw.
And I really wish I could be able to afk on Tw to help with w.e is going on.

that's just a bit of a rant from a grumpy stoner.

It's a little reminiscent of my rant last year
viewtopic.php?f=115&t=34201&p=375497#p375497

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Deim
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Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#2 » Post by Deim » 06 Jul 2017 10:55

You cannot expect people to stay on servers where icc has been on farm for so long. People were leaving for various reasons, be it irl ones, lack of old friends (who left before lol), being burned out by constantly grinding same content. Myself I was about to quit TrueWoW, for some other expansions when Primal was introduced. It was the thing that's still keeping me in community here. Truewow was just burning out, guilds closing one by one, nothing new to do, no one to play with. The decline started way earlier. I watched two guilds that I put mutch effort to run and build die.

Primal might have increased the rate of people leaving at the end of the decline as people saw an alternative. But you also should keep in mind it was nearly as empty as TW is now for quite long time. I'd even risk the statement for majority of time PW wasn't getting pop (was at stale 150ppl peak) while TW was loosing.
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Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#3 » Post by Thexelez » 06 Jul 2017 19:41

All that the previous poster wrote.

Last few months our runs had real problem of filling up spots, some raids took few hours to fill. So any progression towards perfection got crippled hardcore. Let's be honest, there wasn't shit left to do except gear someones alt.

Idk what kept me going, maybe abusing bugs. There was just so many, most infamous one the rs 10hc :D Good times
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Nyeriah

Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#4 » Post by Nyeriah » 06 Jul 2017 21:06

You gotta be out of your mind to think Primal was the reason TrueWoW's population dropped

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Gadoschi
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Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#5 » Post by Gadoschi » 06 Jul 2017 21:12

One of the reasons, for sure.

Check your logs for when TW's population first started dropping more significantly - when Primal was launched.

I can atest to it because it was right about when I started playing on TW.

It's not the only reason, of course, but one very significant reason for sure, but not only because TW players started playing on PW, but also because of all the attention PW got (in the media and by the devs, the staff and the gms). And, the final nail in the coffin was the so called core update for WotLK, which broke about half of everything.

I mean, when was the last time you heard a single plan to do something proactive for the TW server by the staff or anyone else involved in leadership/development/maintenance around here?

A year? Two years? And, please don't count the "core update". That was an utter failure.

Check the website index page. Enough said (TBC, TBC, TBC, TBC, ...).
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Nyeriah

Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#6 » Post by Nyeriah » 06 Jul 2017 21:18

When Primal launched it was struggling with 100 players peak until Dodgykebab reviewed it and brought 500 people with him that left equally as fast. The only TrueWoW players it had at that time were Etro, Chasity and Roel himself. Maybe Dymond? I don't remember who else from the staff was involved with it. The moment succeeding it was marked by the still ongoing 100-150 players peak and the constant feeling that the realm was neglected by the staff as all the attention was put into TrueWoW and there was little communication from the staff (players felt like staff and players weren't quite close enough). That's what I heard from several players that were here from the beginning.

Better get your facts straight.

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Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#7 » Post by Gadoschi » 06 Jul 2017 22:46

What about the other part of my statement you conveniently neglected?

"I mean, when was the last time you heard a single plan to do something proactive for the TW server by the staff or anyone else involved in leadership/development/maintenance around here?
A year? Two years? And, please don't count the "core update". That was an utter failure.
Check the website index page. Enough said (TBC, TBC, TBC, TBC, ...).
"
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Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#8 » Post by IronSharona » 07 Jul 2017 00:31

As a member of staff I have heard many plans or suggestions for the TW realm recently. Recently here being within the last few months, certainly not years. Many of those ideas simply have not reached public consumption yet because of the urgency of preparing updates for Primal's TBC release along with increasingly busy staff RL schedules. Many GMs actively search for new ways to contribute to TW, but short of becoming developers, there are relatively few initiatives that we can take to meet player demands. If you have any suggestions that are non-developer heavy, I'd be happy to take time to listen, Gadaoschi. Please send me a PM if there's anything you would like to see considered that I can help bring to better attention of the rest of staff!

It is always a tightrope to walk in our unbalanced two realm network. If we focus on issues on the less populated realm, we experience an overwhelming backlash from those in the majority who feel they deserve priority for being more numerous. If we focus on issues of the more populated realm, we are accused of letting the less populated realm die, or giving up on it. Given that we have seen both negative and positive feedback from players of either realm, I think that goes to show that for a small team we have found a relatively acceptable medium trying to balance the tightrope.
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Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#9 » Post by Sabin » 09 Jul 2017 16:57

TW's lifespan was destined to run its course one way or another. It was just a matter of how you wanted to facilitate the process.

Easing it down slowly by letting people choose to move on their own reasons is certainly better than pulling the plug prematurely, when there were still hundreds of people engaged in their characters every day. By adding a fresher realm at the realmlist, at least you get to cash in on the stragglers and keep them part of this community. The other option would have been to let those people wander to other servers.

And when PW finishes its progression cycle, who knows what the future could bring. It's always possible for a merger to bring some sort of reinvigoration.

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loveable
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Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#10 » Post by loveable » 09 Jul 2017 21:29

anyway tw is dead
if u open 1-1 transfer for (mount / pet / achiev) tw -> pw , last tw players will come pw
i know the only reason they wont come is they dont want farm mount / pet / achiev again , as i know they r ok with gear


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Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#11 » Post by Ancestor » 09 Jul 2017 22:08

Sad is that to wait transfers to pw..
So many chars and time invested in tw...~10 years loyality ditch away and what...start 0 from pw..ye i didnt go to another server been allways here. Its just sad atm.
Got 70 in pw now...no pvp activity and pve is not in intrest anymore cos RL...raided enough in past...now just to play this game here im just lvling more alts..

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Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#12 » Post by Eronox » 09 Jul 2017 23:20

Ancestor wrote:
09 Jul 2017 22:08
Sad is that to wait transfers to pw..
So many chars and time invested in tw...~10 years loyality ditch away and what...start 0 from pw..ye i didnt go to another server been allways here. Its just sad atm.
Got 70 in pw now...no pvp activity and pve is not in intrest anymore cos RL...raided enough in past...now just to play this game here im just lvling more alts..
viewtopic.php?f=92&t=38082
.

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Randayn
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Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#13 » Post by Randayn » 13 Jul 2017 04:23

Eronox wrote:
09 Jul 2017 23:20
Ancestor wrote:
09 Jul 2017 22:08
Sad is that to wait transfers to pw..
So many chars and time invested in tw...~10 years loyality ditch away and what...start 0 from pw..ye i didnt go to another server been allways here. Its just sad atm.
Got 70 in pw now...no pvp activity and pve is not in intrest anymore cos RL...raided enough in past...now just to play this game here im just lvling more alts..
viewtopic.php?f=92&t=38082
Are dks up for transfers to PrimalWow?

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Psyentific
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Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#14 » Post by Psyentific » 15 Jul 2017 09:20

if we can transfer characters from retail, we should also be able to transfer from truewow.

the players clearly care enough to stick around, forum post, and maybe log in occasionally. we should try not to lose them through negligence. even bog-standard template characters would be better than nothing, but obv. the more accomplished players would prefer mount & achievement transfers if only so they don't have to farm them again.
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Faralion
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Re: The death of Tw and the rise of Pw

#15 » Post by Faralion » 18 Jul 2017 22:50

Psyentific wrote:
15 Jul 2017 09:20
if we can transfer characters from retail, we should also be able to transfer from truewow.

the players clearly care enough to stick around, forum post, and maybe log in occasionally. we should try not to lose them through negligence. even bog-standard template characters would be better than nothing, but obv. the more accomplished players would prefer mount & achievement transfers if only so they don't have to farm them again.
I think the issue is when WoTLK comes out, they already have the achievements. It... lowers the value of them. As Primal WoW will be patch by patch, content by content, those who instantly get it are... using pre-gained goods so to say.

And said pre-gained goods may or may not be worth it. Since, due to gear acquisition (True WoW do things tier by tier or instant ICC?). And then you have times/dates, those that were pulled or bought.

You have one hell of a massive mess that no one really cares about. E-Peen reasoning and such. If they really want to play and enjoy the community, the won't let a silly thing such as mounts and achievements get in the way.

I mean, if it wasn't for selfish reasons, how ****ing dedicated were they?

EDIT:

In fact, is this not a re-do of old times with retail-like rules/rates? Characters, even on the same realm, did not share mounts or achievements, lol.

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