opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

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KeeperA
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opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#1 » Post by KeeperA » 17 Dec 2016 23:42

Hello,
I recently returned to play on truewow after a three years break and see the server is in a deplorable dying state which greatly saddens me. I am thinking if anything can be done about it and I looked at other wotlk servers which are still doing well.
Lordaeron realm on Warmane and Algalon realm on Dalaran-wow are WotlK progresive realms. People seem to like that.
So why not open a new, WotLK progresive realm with WotLK content?
Surely there are WotlK players who want progresive WotLK content but don't want to put up with the pay-to win bullshit of Warmane and Dalaran-wow?
Yes, Dalaran -wow is pretty pay to win-ish as well:for example buying lv 70 character with a set of gear and 900 gold for 12 donation points( around 12 euro) is bulshit. Saying that it is "temporary" since the start of the server is also bullshit. They also sell mounts, pets and other stuff such as Foror's Crate of Endless Resist Gear with real money ONLY (via donation points), no way to vote for those. Also Dalaran-WoW has an "eternal progresion system" with which I and many others disagree with.

You get my point. There has to be players willing to play a WotLK progresive realm without the pay to win, non-blizzlike features other servers offer. Maybe you can capitalize on that.
And some of the old players will get sick and tired of playing other expansions and will sooner or later return to WotLK. By that time maybe the new realm will reach ICC content and you can transfer their accounts on the new realm or merge the old and the new realm.
Think about it, discuss about it and vote for it. Maybe things will work out, maybe not but it's worth trying this in my opinion. Nothing much to lose at this point.
As for the life support you call crossfaction features on a blizzlike server, it is what it is, a life support system. I am not thrilled about it but I can live with it as long as life is at stake (or the server's life in this case).
Last edited by KeeperA on 18 Dec 2016 02:37, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#2 » Post by Gnurg » 18 Dec 2016 00:16

There has been some rumours about Stormholdwow being our new WotLK server. Somewhy the site was empty today, but it used to have a few things. Maybe the idea was scrapped?

Cached version of the site: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... ldwow.com/
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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#3 » Post by Jiranthos » 18 Dec 2016 00:20

Tin foil hats on!
:?

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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#4 » Post by Gnurg » 18 Dec 2016 00:24

Jiranthos wrote:Tin foil hats on!
:?
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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#5 » Post by Royo » 18 Dec 2016 01:45

Does it have to be WotLK?

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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#6 » Post by Nyeriah » 18 Dec 2016 02:17

Hello,

I am glad that you still thought of us after all these years and even more gratified that you took the time to write this and express how you felt about our server. A lot of things happened in these 3 years, not only to our server but to the private server scenario in general.

To work with a community is necessary to accept that it's constantly changing. It's never in a finished state, it's never definite. Despite the existence of the maximum telling us that people never change, it has proven to be untrue, in terms, at least a dozen of thousand times. People do change - their interests change, their lives change, the way they think and see things change.

With that said, as time passes by the community alters itself, constantly deconstructing and recreating itself - people come and people go, the edification remains. The server has remained here after all those long years, the community changed but the model presented, the shape of content, in essence, has always been the same.

The private server scenario has suffered an extreme shift the past years and there are several factors that contributed to it. If for once we can say that the game has got too old and the expansion in special does not shine as bright as it did before, on the other hand the demographic itself has also changed a lot over these years.

The private server market isn't really a market that quite refreshes itself that often. You have players who hop from server to server and never settle anywhere, players who are already settled on those big servers and won't really move elsewhere unless they're forced to (and chances are that they'd just quit if they had to invest time into another server anyway) and then a very small fraction of new players looking for a new server to play. And that minority looking for a home is still fractionated, seeing how people got different interests - some want to play WotLK, some want to play Cataclysm, some want end-game servers, some want progression servers, so on and so forth.

Most of the players that want to play on endgame WotLK servers are veterans, players that have been around the game for a long while and experienced several expansions, more importantly, Wrath of the Lich King. But with time, this demographic has also drifted away as the game gets old and people age as well, whereas they simply don't have the time or will to play the game. Life also moves on.

Having these things in mind, there has indeed been a shift that caused progressive servers to get a considerable amount of attention lately. I dare say it's because, by a large part, they please both the veterans and the players who never experienced the game before. What's more, building your character slowly and progressing through content has proven to give people a large share of fun. Sadly, our TrueWoW realm has stopped progressing long ago and could no longer offer people such amusement, reason why some of them drifted away to different servers and other hobbies.

There are many things going on at our server right now. We have a lot of discussions in progress and there's a lot of thinking being put into everything we plan and what steps should we take to preserve our community.

We are aware of TrueWoW's current state. We are not by any means neglecting it in any way. But we have also acknowledged that advertising it right now as it is without any changes will be of no help. It's really hard to create any excitement towards a server that is fully progressed and people walk around with just too much gear. It has always been. For what concerns the staff, we'll be doing everything we can to give our players fun and ensure game play still enjoyable to everyone regardless of what happens. TrueWoW isn't going down, we are not shutting it down.

On the other hand, I speak for all of us when I say we're rather glad that PrimalWoW is flourishing. As a progressive server - and a quite innovative one at that - it has quite a bright future so long we do our job right and keep the symphony harmonious.

About Stormhold and our own new "WotLK Progressive Server", it's true that we have discussed such possibility. It's true that we have considered such possibility. A while ago we've made contact with two of the major guilds, namely Inquisition and Hellraisers, to research their interest in the project and how welcomed would the idea be. Sadly, it was proved that these players who were approached had no interest in a new WotLK progressive server or participating in it, some were actually strongly against the idea. Nonetheless, we still regarded the project as a key element to the future of our network - it represents the renewal, a the change of course, so the development didn't cease, we just took a different approach to it.

There were also other rumors saying TrueWoW may upgrade to Cataclysm. Ultimately, this is not true. Is it a possibility in the future? I don't know, I can't tell. Being quite honest, and perhaps this may be the source of some of the rumors, I have suggested upgrading to Cataclysm in the long future if several elements take place. Elements such as players not losing their characters in any way or any changes that could affect what players have got so far in the game. I won't give any further details about it, because there's no reason to. There's nothing concrete, there's nothing decided, there's nothing tangible. It's just a suggestion like any other.

So as you see here we are working with expectation. Will Stormhold be a thing? Probably. Will #CataTW be a thing? I don't know, it's just speculation.

As a personal request, It would have been a lot better if the people who got hold of confidential information while working with us cooperatively didn't expose it in the public forums or spread rumors. All things in their due time, there's no conspiracy in play, we are most certainly not going to toy with our community's expectations, so it would be quite respectful to conceal until the staff decides it should go to the public domain. It prevents a lot of misunderstandings.

This new year will certainly present us with a lot of updates. Our PRL should present an announcement with a briefing of several things we've discussed and planned for the future in the following days. I would stay tuned in for it so until then, just hold on :)

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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#7 » Post by KeeperA » 18 Dec 2016 13:13

Nyeriah, thank you for your words of encouragement.
Royo, yes it has to be WotLK unless truewow has a very well scripted Cataclysm realm up their sleeve and ready to launch.

[I have to remind you , if you go Cataclysm route, you will go against the behemoth called Dragonwrath realm (Cataclysm 1x rates).

*snip*
Edit: We appreciate the feedback but this is not the place to advertise another server. You may rephrase and repost if you like.
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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#8 » Post by Gadoschi » 16 Jan 2017 10:47

I, too, am questioning the validity of the decision to go with WotLK expansion specifically for the new progressive realm.

Why?

1. I fear it will seal the fate of the current WotLK realm. I am fairly certain a good deal of already low population will move to the progressive realm. And the fact is, many players have devoted their lives developing their TrueWoW realm characters (the fact that there are 100+ characters with over 9500 achievement points is proof enough). I suppose there will not be an option to move current realm characters to the progressive realm for obvious reasons. A good example of that is Dalaran's Kirin Tor realm with all content available (it's virtually empty even though it was introduced before Algalon.

2.I fear it will seal the fate of TrueWoW as a project in general. Why? There are already 2 solid (but far from ideal) progressive WotLK options out there that hold vast majority of the entire WotLK private server player base (Lordaeron Warmane and Algalon Dalaran-WoW - I am mentioning them not as suggestions to move and where, but because they are our strongest competitor for players seeking solid WotLK experience), and it is very unlikely players will move from those 2 highly populated and, quite frankly, solid realms, to a new and very low-populated realm simply because TrueWoW will offer few less bugs and few better scripted encounters. Also, running 1 additional realm will substantially increase the maintenance costs for TW servers.

Perhaps there are bigger "player market" opportunities for some other expansions (like progressive TBC realm for example). But I guess there are already options available for every expansion, though, apart from TBC and WotLK, I'm not very familiar with them, since other expansions don't really interest me that much.

Also, players as a social group are becoming more and more lazy every day, and it is my opinion that not offering instant lvl 70 or 80 (at least via donations) is a mistake from today's perspective.

Once again, I am writing this with the best intentions, from the perspective of a current TrueWoW realm player playing in the best guild the Horde has to offer right now - which says enough on its own, since we can't even kill Sindragosa 25HC and PP 25HC, and it's having a visibly discouraging effect on many players, including myself.

The situation has become critial enough for me to seriously consider other options (including both "solid" alternatives I mentioned earlier), and I have to say - in terms of content, server stability, encounter scripting, gm friendliness and willingness to help with bugs/problems, COMMUNITY (and I can't stress this enough - no silly requirements for raids, half of boss loot reserved in every run, etc.) - TrueWoW is by far the best WotLK realm out there (apart from a few earlier content bubus), and I would be very sad to see it go down and having to permanently move somewhere else.

The ONLY thing TrueWoW is missing is more players. Unfortunately, this is not so easy remedied.

What I would do to improve on this matter?

1. more aggressive advertisement (with more benefits for new players) - I understand this is hard to do with nothing new being offered for months of even years, but it needs to be done - why do you think Nost project was such a big success? because of sublime scripting? excellent GM support? friendly community? no way! - advertisement advertisement advertisement all the way; the bigger the hype, the more players will join

2. more lenient character transfer policy (with limits only on BoE items and gold transferred) with additional benefits for guild transfers, with much more aggressive character transfer advertisement (because THIS is what sets TW apart from every other decent WotLK option out there at the moment)

3. offer instant levelling option for a reasonable ammount of donation points (or a considerable ammount of vote points as well)

4. leaving PrimalWoW a Vanilla realm, adding 1 more TBC realm, together with the existing TrueWoW realm, would complete TW's offer in terms of expansions players most often desire when leaving blizzard servers

Finally, I would like to conclude my monologue by pointing out that, although there are some random dungeons since crossfaction was enabled, and even though I was initially for this option, I must say that, judging from in-game player reactions, most active players would prefer the option not being available as they feel (and I must agree with this opinion) this option moves TW further away from what it originally was designed to be - fully blizzlike no pay 2 win realm.

I understand that suggestions such as instant levelling and more lenient transfer policies (from higher rates server, for example) may also be steps away from blizzlike, but I feel they might be necessary in order to provide the server with a pool of new quality players. Unlike crossfaction, they directly tackle TrueWoW's main problem - server population.

I hope this won't be seen as a rant of a grumpy old guy, but as an honest overview of how most of the community I interact with in-game feels about the current state of this server. Population level on TW is, indeed, critically low, my friends.
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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#9 » Post by Jiranthos » 16 Jan 2017 13:10

Thank you for your insight. You make valid points, but I have some counter arguments. I'll see if I can come back and write them down when I'm less busy and by my computer.

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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#10 » Post by loveable » 16 Jan 2017 13:22

well i agree with "Gadoschi" , for ex: i farmed hour's this days for "Insane in the Membrane" or some hard achiev that i wont do em again ... or something hardest like Hk's , will ppl move in new realm w/o 300k hk ???????? :?: :?:
i said before in a topic about a fair transfer , we can have our char's in new realm with achiev's , hk's , banks ..
But about gear ? it can be up to staff , they can decide to transfer w/o gear or transfer our gears with an Exchange too
Like 277 gears to naxx gears or something else , so we can come play in new realm and it can be fair cuz noone will has sm or rs and gears or etc to play in naxx
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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#11 » Post by Jiranthos » 16 Jan 2017 15:23

NB! Everything I write going forward is my own opinion as a player, mere speculation and not an official statement from the Staff as a whole body, and thus cannot be interpreted as such or treated as absolute, definite, final and truthful.
Gadoschi wrote: 1. I fear it will seal the fate of the current WotLK realm. I am fairly certain a good deal of already low population will move to the progressive realm. And the fact is, many players have devoted their lives developing their TrueWoW realm characters (the fact that there are 100+ characters with over 9500 achievement points is proof enough). I suppose there will not be an option to move current realm characters to the progressive realm for obvious reasons. A good example of that is Dalaran's Kirin Tor realm with all content available (it's virtually empty even though it was introduced before Algalon.
I had this concern myself when PrimalWoW was released. The thing is people don't budge, they don't move. I only know of a handful of TrueWoW players who moved to PrimalWoW. My guildmates on TrueWoW that I talked to about PrimalWoW were not interested of hearing about it either. PrimalWoW got itself a whole new community, effectively doubling the population of our entire network, even if the communities do not really interact with each other (or at least didn't until the websites, realmlists and forums were merged into one). This, of course, does not help TrueWoW in any way, but it proves that opening another realm, especially if it's different, brings in new, different people. It is true, that PrimalWoW is a lot different to TrueWoW (PvE vs PvP, Vanilla progression vs WotLK content complete) and that may be why it works. I see your concern with the new WotLK progression realm idea may be being to similar to the existing realm. But I am still optimistic. As for people who have >9500 achievement points. I am one of them, I have >10000 points and I do feel invested in TrueWoW, just like the next guy. To that, I want to tell you that your supposition about transfers shouldn't be so hasty. I'm sure that there can be a way, something figured out to make this possible. Maybe even in a way similar to what lovable (Ghoststray) has outlined above this post (transferring with gear limited or downscaled).
Even if execution may be spot on, I still understand that Dalaran-WoW and Warmane, and even Gamer-District are our fierce competitors, especially in the WotLK niche, but still I am hopeful, but this is definitely the dealbreaking point here. The competition, not the ubiquitous "Population will split" issue.
Gadoschi wrote: 2. I fear it will seal the fate of TrueWoW as a project in general. Why? There are already 2 solid (but far from ideal) progressive WotLK options out there that hold vast majority of the entire WotLK private server player base (Lordaeron Warmane and Algalon Dalaran-WoW - I am mentioning them not as suggestions to move and where, but because they are our strongest competitor for players seeking solid WotLK experience), and it is very unlikely players will move from those 2 highly populated and, quite frankly, solid realms, to a new and very low-populated realm simply because TrueWoW will offer few less bugs and few better scripted encounters. Also, running 1 additional realm will substantially increase the maintenance costs for TW servers.


This is as doomsayer-y as you could make it. Sure, there are options out there, and it's important to acknowledge them, and maybe this idea is not quite the right one for us, but this cannot spell the end of the entire TrueWoW network, especially since PrimalWoW is booming (yes, it's low population and niche, but for that niche it's well regarded, and has great reputation "abroad", and being recommended to those who want to experience such an adventure). The network will be just fine (the network being our players, our staff, our website, our realms altogether, not just a single realm). I'm sure it has weathered bigger storms before.
Gadoschi wrote: Perhaps there are bigger "player market" opportunities for some other expansions (like progressive TBC realm for example). But I guess there are already options available for every expansion, though, apart from TBC and WotLK, I'm not very familiar with them, since other expansions don't really interest me that much.


You may still be right, and may convince me, as an individual, and, yes, TBC is a low-hanging fruit ripe to be plucked, but I will address this further...

Gadoschi wrote: Also, players as a social group are becoming more and more lazy every day, and it is my opinion that not offering instant lvl 70 or 80 (at least via donations) is a mistake from today's perspective.


I guess that is true, but we are a niche network, hell-bent on not being P2W, not making profit, staying true. To abandon all that, would be to abandon our mission, our purpose, our "thing" that sets us apart from the rest of the realms and networks out there. Even if we have some custom stuff, and sometimes stray from Blizzlike, our selling point is the "True" part of "TrueWoW". I hope you can see why abandoning that can cause backlash and deteriorating reputation. Also, I'm not sure the administration of TrueWoW would ever be up to this, I'd rather them see launch a new "network", completely under another name, disassociated with the virtues and values that the TrueWoW name encompasses.
Gadoschi wrote: The ONLY thing TrueWoW is missing is more players. Unfortunately, this is not so easy remedied.


Word.
Gadoschi wrote: 1. more aggressive advertisement (with more benefits for new players) - I understand this is hard to do with nothing new being offered for months of even years, but it needs to be done - why do you think Nost project was such a big success? because of sublime scripting? excellent GM support? friendly community? no way! - advertisement advertisement advertisement all the way; the bigger the hype, the more players will join


Our Public Relations Manager is working hard daily to promote our realms out there. As a person that frequents the wowservers subreddit often, I can directly see how he, myself, and even other "mere" players are contributing to that cause, but there is only so much you can talk about with no new content (TrueWoW), especially like you mentioned, with such strong competition. And, sadly, we lost our TrueWoW population to mostly guild dramas, staff vs player dramas, boredom of said players, exhaustion of said players from the old content they had been doing weekly for years, and that is understandable. But that is mainly what bled TrueWoW, not our competitors being better in any way. Civil war ruined our kingdom, not wars with other kingdoms.
Back to advertising: 1) No content to advertise. 2) Just advertising for advertisings sake (i.e. look, we are this, come join), equivalent to LFG spam or Guild Recruitment spam, but on another level of abstraction, one meta level higher, is frowned upon out there. People who clearly advocate one server over another are labelled shills and are not treated seriously anymore. An overly aggressive approach has already proved itself for the worse in the past. C'est la vie.
Our administrator Nyeriah has also expressed this opinion (advertising TrueWoW as it is now will accomplish nothing) earlier in this very thread.
Gadoschi wrote: 2. more lenient character transfer policy (with limits only on BoE items and gold transferred) with additional benefits for guild transfers, with much more aggressive character transfer advertisement (because THIS is what sets TW apart from every other decent WotLK option out there at the moment)

3. offer instant levelling option for a reasonable ammount of donation points (or a considerable ammount of vote points as well)


Same deal, TrueWoW, blizzlike, values. All depends on if we are ready to abandon our mission, values to "sell out" and just become just like everybody else (and smaller than everybody else, for that matter) and risk just being crushed entirely, by not providing a niche and unique product.
Gadoschi wrote: 4. leaving PrimalWoW a Vanilla realm, adding 1 more TBC realm, together with the existing TrueWoW realm, would complete TW's offer in terms of expansions players most often desire when leaving blizzard servers


PrimalWoW is our main driving force at the moment, and just leaving it at the Vanilla stage on a 3.3.5a client would be weird as heck, let's face it. The environs on PrimalWoW in the Vanilla stage are not perfect. PvP is awkward, specs are awkward, it's not amazing. TBC on PrimalWoW in my eyes, personally, has greater prospect. Besides many players (even those not playing, but just *knowing* about PrimalWoW already have it ingrained in their minds that PrimalWoW is what it is, a 6 year progression, and I have seen many players stating that they will return for TBC. There is a huuuuuge demand for TBC out there and I expect a huge influx of players come June 2016 for PrimalWoW.
Having a TBC realm for just the sake of it seems without merit, especially with PrimalWoW soon overlapping with its content in that case. The TrueWoW realm is hard to "sell" at this point and I don't know what to do, personally.

Thank you for your input, I just wanted to show you my side of the equation, and I really enjoy valid discussion like this, so don't apologize.

In conclusion, I believe that you may be right that the WotLK market is overly saturated and there may be a problem, but I also wanted to point out how your suggestions do not really solved anything either (minus the ones that ask abandoning our blizzlike values, which if we did, still do not guarantee success). Our network/project will be doing just fine, it's just the TrueWoW WotLK realm that needs resuscitation and sustenance but I cannot see any options myself. As for the third realm, we may be shooting in the wrong direction, but I want to emphasize that I feel that it does not really affect PrimalWoW or TrueWoW (WotLK) in any way, if history has shown me anything.
I may be wrong in all of this, of course.

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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#12 » Post by Gadoschi » 16 Jan 2017 16:35

loveable wrote:well i agree with "Gadoschi" , for ex: i farmed hour's this days for "Insane in the Membrane" or some hard achiev that i wont do em again ... or something hardest like Hk's , will ppl move in new realm w/o 300k hk ???????? :?: :?:
i said before in a topic about a fair transfer , we can have our char's in new realm with achiev's , hk's , banks ..
But about gear ? it can be up to staff , they can decide to transfer w/o gear or transfer our gears with an Exchange too
Like 277 gears to naxx gears or something else , so we can come play in new realm and it can be fair cuz noone will has sm or rs and gears or etc to play in naxx
Should the old WotLK realm really go down the sink and the new realm should blossom, I think it's only fair that we be given the opportunity to move our chars there - if there are gear adjustments to be made, so be it - but we should be allowed to keep achievements, pets and mounts.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, @Jiranthos, what is the point of "blizzlike values" if the realm has virtually nothing going on. Players are the ones honoring those values, and if there are not enough players to perform activities as they were meant to be carried out (PvE and PvP), everything sort of loses its point.

And finally, paying 2 level up does not equal paying 2 win. Level guarantees you nothing but a CHANCE to win faster by skipping the part that most ppl find extremely exhausting and annoying.
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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#13 » Post by Eronox » 16 Jan 2017 16:47

What about a new rule? Read all the current posts before submitting your own! ^_^
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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#14 » Post by Xtremest » 17 Jan 2017 10:53

i somehow recommend a merge with another server, does't matter if its not blizzlike. I know its against TW's pride but if we can just somehow merge it will be great. Spermik and bloodcraft merged with TW. But now its time for TW to merge with idk... something ! its just my idea so don't rage guys <3 i love TW and after so many years mutes bans and what-not i still love this server and the lovely GMs.
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Re: opening a new WotLK progresive realm?

#15 » Post by Longi » 17 Jan 2017 11:05

Gadoschi wrote: Once again, I am writing this with the best intentions, from the perspective of a current TrueWoW realm player playing in the best guild the Horde has to offer right now - which says enough on its own, since we can't even kill Sindragosa 25HC and PP 25HC, and it's having a visibly discouraging effect on many players, including myself.
:-D If you cannot kill boss. The problem is somewhere between a keyboard and wow-client , not in low server population :-D


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