Worlds buffs, or no kill

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Tyoni
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Worlds buffs, or no kill

#1 » Post by Tyoni » 17 Nov 2016 10:56

I wrongly posted this on the bugtracker first, so this is a copy paste from my post there.

There seems to be a general concept, that to make hard bosses, you must have world buffs to kill them. This seems to be the case with a few bosses out there.
Princess Huhuran, Patchwerk. These are the current two. If we go back a few weeks, the list was longer, including a possible Anub in naxx, and Twins in AQ (and Fankriss when he was first released). I suspect additional bosses out there requires world buffs (C'thun perhaps?), but as we haven't had an attempt on him, I didn't "officically" count him in.

I think personally, that this is a very dull concept. It was epic the first time, but after so, so many times, it's just tedious and dumb. The fact that you have to spend an hour of raid time, just to muster enough health/dps to kill a boss, is dumb.
I get that harder bosses further into Naxx can be "unkillable" for now, because we don't meet gear requirements. But having a first boss of a wing be almost unkillable even with world buffs, is just dumb.

To summ up, it would be cool, if making hard bosses no longer revolved around forcing world buffs. Make bosses hard, not impossible.
Thank you.

I'm hoping this can fire up a healthy discussion. If you have an opinion on this, let's hear!

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Fitzpatrick
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Re: Worlds buffs, or no kill

#2 » Post by Fitzpatrick » 17 Nov 2016 12:26

Hey Tyoni,
I think this represents a viewpoint shift from early WoW to later expansions. Earlier, particularly the first two expansions, I think the development staff viewed raiding and the gear from it as rewards for those who organized and put in the time to overcome the bosses, while later they shifted to a pluralistic view where everyone should have access to content nearly regardless of play-time and skill.

Both have their arguments, but I will tell you as someone who played retail from release to WotLK, you lose something as the difficulty goes down. Marching through Icecrown was not very satisfying, but that first time my guild beat Lady Vashj after a couple weeks of attempts was EPIC. I still remember the feeling as she ticked down the last couple percent. I was one of only a few healers still up and I was throwing out Lifeblooms as fast as I could click, trying to maintain 3 on the tank, trying to dodge poison on the floor which was everywhere at that point, and my hands were shaking. I couldn't describe a single boss kill experience to you from all of WotLK.
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majstorfanta
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Re: Worlds buffs, or no kill

#3 » Post by majstorfanta » 17 Nov 2016 13:54

I do not think you have to worry about that too much. As soon as new content releases, old content gets a bit nerfed. So most likely you will not be needing w buffs for patchwerk when new bosses are released
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Theblomb
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Re: Worlds buffs, or no kill

#4 » Post by Theblomb » 17 Nov 2016 16:25

The only current problem I see with it is having to spend 30-60 mins to get buffs to get one attempt at a boss, and in case of a wipe or accident in between, out of luck, go repeat again. I'd be much more satisfied with spending that time attempting the boss more times, instead of running around buffing all over the world, my opinion is keep raiding in the raids. :)

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kurthos
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Re: Worlds buffs, or no kill

#5 » Post by kurthos » 18 Nov 2016 20:55

I actually made a thread about this over a year ago because I knew it would be an issue - http://www.truewow.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=33641

I agree with you that world buffs are not fun. Content as it is now, has to be tuned with world buffs in mind because of how easy things would be with them. I wish it weren't the case. I think in TBC we'll ensure that world buffs are no longer part of the game for the sake of competition, but as it is now we should leave them as part of the game since we're nearly finished with Vanilla and it does add to the experience of "endless effort for endless reward" versus future content which is very much self contained.

As people collect gear from Naxxramas, Cthun/Twins, etc. content will get easier naturally. Tanks will take less damage, players will deal more damage, and healers will do more healing. I think there are other major reasons or problems guilds haven't solved or other reasons guilds took longer to kill bosses than one another and thats totally normal for this game.

I feel that because you cannot kill Huhuran or Patchwerk without world buffs right now doesn't mean thats WHY you can't kill them without world buffs right now. To say the only reason you cannot kill a boss is world buffs is also saying you've done everything you can do other than world buffs to kill those bosses and that is something not even the most disciplined/hardcore guilds can say.

That pressure and motivation to do better is what makes competition in raiding great. Teams of players identifying where their team can get better and apply those changes. Its a major part of the game I enjoy and reason I love leading guilds.

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