Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

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Amoriann
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Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#1 » Post by Amoriann » 17 Jun 2016 06:01

Past couple of months there has been a lot of progress in scripting ICC(props to the Devs) but due to some recent fixes specially LichKing most guilds "all" just ignore lichking specially go for 11 bosses and call it a day.

But we have to keep in mind there has been lot of other fixes regarding Lady Deathwhisper, Saurfang, Professor and even Sindragosa what i am saying is not all raids kill even 11/12 bosses in Heroic or even Normal specially for a pug grp due to lady deathwhisper "mind control semi fix" it has become pretty hard for them to even pass the 2nd boss in ICC.

We also have to keep in mind that majority of the server has killed LK in 25hc mode and it has been in FARM MODE for couple of months and now all of a sudden due to some changes in Lichking and making it unkillable most raiders in our guild or other "some i spoke to" are totally ignoring lichking killing 11 bosses and calling it a day, this may affect the server population "already affected the raid attendance in Divinity" we are at the 2nd week yet to get a Lich King kill in 25hc to our name, if this continues for too long most ppl will loose interest and move on to other game or other server.

I think this is the time to have the 30% buff for Icecrown Citadel which will help shorten the raid duration and also help PUG GRPS. There are 3 guilds that are killing LK in 25hc mode and also they are organizing SEMI PUG RUNS to help outsiders to have some loot and enjoy the game.
If a pug grp is killing 9bosses in icc10normal, 30% buff may help them kill 11 bosses ?? which can be 12bosses the following week onwards.
Am saying this cause i've seen a drastic change in raid attendance in our raids lot of ppls are not showing up for raids. And ICC is like a NEW raid instance everyweek.
And too our devs maybe u guys before applying such fixes can try it out in PTR and ask for volunteer to test it and then apply it on LIVE REALM so ppl dont get a shock while doing the raids.

30% BUFF FTW
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meraz
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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#2 » Post by meraz » 17 Jun 2016 06:08

+1
I totally agree that we should have 30% buff so it saves me some time instead of spending 4hrs in bugged lichking.
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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#3 » Post by mcheka » 17 Jun 2016 06:35

I'm okay with 30% buff if that's what most people on the server want, though I'm also fine with our current buff as presumably valk LoS issues will be fixed. The only two major issues left at LK now are that (which will make LK doable), and soul reaper still not working right (which will make LK even harder).

While I can't point to LK and general ICC fixes as the reason behind our own lower raid attendance, I agree that it's pushed out players who used to be able to attend raids, but are simply not good enough anymore as ICC has become harder -- many have left to other lower guilds. I'm not sure how overall server population has been affected.

The truth is, server population also always drops in the summer quite significantly. It's happened every year I've been on TrueWoW. I hope it's just that, and not really just people who want to stop raiding.

Also, great changes devs -- I think there's been more progress in the past few months than in any few month period since I started on TW. Really awesome job and keep it up!
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Justicelight
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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#4 » Post by Justicelight » 17 Jun 2016 06:44

I agree with this suggestion, but partially.

Instead of handing out 30% buff for all icc instances, I strongly suggest to give the buff only to 10 man normal/heroic. Here is where we lack people and here is where everyone starts to gear more or less. The lower number of players a raid has, the higher the impact of a less geared player from that raid influences the overall performance hence higher icc buff would dampen the newcomers low gear outcome of joining starter raids.

Icc buff is all about %, while highly geared players gets more benefit out of more %, lower geared players gets less benefit than higher geared ones. This means that the impact of icc buff raise in 25 man raids would be highly significant due to the possibility of a pug raid to hire a top shot tank + healer which will benefit from increased icc buff more than others, making the "icc carry" raid aspect be more applicable in this case.

So yes, give 30% buff but only in 10man normal/heroic. Looking at the gear of the players that play in 25 man raids, I would say that 30% buff applied on a highly geared raid would only lead to opening the possibility of having 20 man raids rather than 25 man raids.
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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#5 » Post by belendor » 17 Jun 2016 07:25

What haappend to lk? I think i killed him last week
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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#6 » Post by Longi » 17 Jun 2016 08:20

nothing ... ppl are just lazy to improve taktic for new updates


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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#7 » Post by Thexelez » 17 Jun 2016 09:52

Longi wrote:nothing ... ppl are just lazy to improve taktic for new updates
yet, the new enrage timer and fm require you to have full group alive. You can do the valkyr killing tactic and realize that in 3 seconds valkyr are in LoS for the melee dps or slows bug them and you have to dps the valkyr near the edge, while it is still moving towards edge and is at half-way mark.

Not to mention, people dropping through platform after valkyr gets downed to 50%, while there is plenty of room left for "the player to land safely".
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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#8 » Post by Gnurg » 17 Jun 2016 10:48

I think 30 % would make the encounter stupidly simple as you could likely just burst through phase 2 and hope for good RNG when it comes to grabs. I still find it lame that so many classes can make it back to the platform as that's obviously not how Blizzard intended it, but rather how the encounter turned out.

If you can't chain-cc, change targets and handle the defile while DPSing the val'kyrs in order to have a full group at phase 3, you simply don't deserve to kill the hardest boss on the server.

What about everyone who took down the easier versions of LK? I personally think the achievement for killing him on 25H should be reset to encourage people to really show that they are worthy of having defeated him (many have it from when valks could be snared to drop the player). But this is something I haven't seen on TW, so doubt that would ever happen.

Either way, -1 from me.
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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#9 » Post by Errorista » 17 Jun 2016 11:38

So after couple of months of farm fest there is finally some new challenge for you and you decide to call for ICC buff increase rather than adapt to new strategy? What a hell man, wait for Valkyr LoS fix and enjoy new (blizzlike) tactics.

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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#10 » Post by testeromir » 17 Jun 2016 13:02

Is blizzlike that valkirs are in los for few seconds. And that when we free some player on time, valkir still drops player from the edge even if the valkir is clearly still on platform.

Is soul reaper blizzlike ?

Is remorseless winter cast without moving to the center bliizlike ?

About Gnurg's achievement remove I agree with one more adition, I think all Ulduar achievements should be removed too, and players should do them in Ulduar gear, so they show they can beat those encounters and that they are worthy of those achievements . :D
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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#11 » Post by Chronic » 17 Jun 2016 13:08

i feel it should be 30% buff as it always has been back in official i still dont understand why they nerfed it in the first place I believe strongly on bringing the buff back to where it should be at 30% like back on official since now icc is working more properly as it should be if this is supposed to be a "blizz like" server bring back 30% buff and get rid of transmog cant advertise a server as being "blizz like " with transmog and icc buff nerfed
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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#12 » Post by Thexelez » 17 Jun 2016 13:51

Fk that buff, just fix an encounter fully so it's in doable state before releasing partial fixes into live realm.

Right now every time there has been fixes it feels like a new expansions raid because you never know what works, what doesn't. And that happens every week.
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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#13 » Post by Chillmaster » 17 Jun 2016 14:04

So i guess the people against it on this post are not thinking about pug raids at all? Yeah think about your own guilds only you freaking self bastards, the buff is not only about LK kill that btw is PRETTY BUGGED AND NOT BLIZZLIKE AT ALL, think about a freaking pug trying to kill Lady Deathwhispers LOL totally impossible, pug raids in 25hc just died forever, guess what people do when they can`t raid ? they leave server. Seems to me like this server will die sooner than expected if the "organization" keeps going like this.

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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#14 » Post by Hansrutger » 17 Jun 2016 14:14

Okay so I've read some posts just being accusations of guild this guild that in this thread, that's not okay please let's hold this as objective as possible without any guild wars in this thread, please?

On one hand I can see this being good, the suggestion being approved. I can see that more people will do ICC because "oh wow something new has changed they buffed us all!" which is good and it gives players motivation. On the other hand, let's think further into the future. Why did Blizzard create normal and heroic? So that players could see all content and furthermore they used this buff increased 5%+ every (month? don't know exact date) until to 30% so even casual players could see the content - on normal! It was never meant for everyone to be able to down LK25hc it is just that simple. So now that brings us to the problem, what happens in the future of TW? Will it ever decrease down to lower %-units? If so, wouldn't the situation be just like now where we are facing something harder? Obviously if we in the future (with LK being fixed) decrease it to 20% back, it will become harder again - exact same scenario as now. I do not believe Lich King is not doable after the fixes so my suggestion is: Let's wait for the fixes and then see where we land. Maybe the LoS issues are the only ones stopping us from actually doing the fight "properly" (can be defined differently from person to person).

As for Lady Deathwhisper, nothing has really become "harder" there in terms of more gear needed. Only thing that was done was that people have to care about mindcontrolled players in terms of CC, which is kinda the point of the fight to be able to handle both mindcontrolled players and adds at the same time. Only thing increased in this fight is the need of reaction time from classes that can CC, nothing else I'd say.

But please again I ask everyone to be objective here and not go into guild wars because it just is pathetic to do that.
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Re: Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff

#15 » Post by mcheka » 17 Jun 2016 14:53

What I can say is, we have the wrong mentality anyway. We seem to want to be able to kill LK while it gets fixed (easy by default and slowly made harder), while the more Blizzlike option is actually for the boss to be impossible and for nerfs (in our case fixes) to happen gradually until it's in a doable state. I'd say we should wait till it's fully fixed, guilds learn to down it properly, and only after that should we think about implementing the 30% buff.

About PUGs: as long as people don't quit by then, people will adapt and become better players. PUGs will be possible in the end, as they were on some other servers, for example the now-dead Sunwell, which was on the 5% or 10% ICC buff and had these fixes long before we did. Tougher servers just breed better players, so this should make us better. The only real concern here is our low-ish population, and having a smaller player pool of talented people capable of raiding ICC heroic. The 30% buff would help weaker players overcome higher skill requirements, essentially.

(I'm also unhappy that we've been farming ezmode LK for a long time and I'd be all for resetting those achieves and gear too, including my own)
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