Are off-specs Viable, Warrior and Paladin.

maapaa · #1 » Post by **maapaa** » 13 Jul 2015 23:49

Dear community of Primal,

This is an exciting project but i need to know about class specs before i fully even consider that gruesome lvl 60 grind, even if its easier with all those Wrath steroids.

Warrior:
Is ARMS warrior in Raids and dungeons viable, i dont just mean sure give it a shot.. i mean people will actually not QQ you ever 20 seconds and not invite you as you are a spec you.. (enjoy playing) while seriously being carried by the other 4 as your dps humps!

Is PROT spec for pvp viable, without warbringer i think not atm? (a spec deep in prot tree that allows you to use any stance to charge and also removes snares..) equally shockwave will be sick when theres 60 twinks running around when wrath hits in ... 6 years *slapsface* wow long timez.

Paladin:
Is RET spec viable in Raids and dungeons, same applied with ARMS.. will people QQ or not invite you as you are having to be carried as your dps humps..

Is SHOCKADIN viable for pvp, i know you needed full T2 before you came online back in the day, is this still the case with new talents??

Is PROTADIN spec viable to Raid and dungeon.. pve, Prot pallys SUCKKKEDDD in Vanilla and were the laughing stock of everyone, trash tanks for trash talkers. Are they viable here, i mean given the Wrath stats and specs.

This information will help me make my decision about what to role, if i do decide to come over to the dark-side *primal*
Thanks!

.ithril11 · #2 » Post by **.ithril11** » 14 Jul 2015 02:12

Every spec of warrior is fine in all the ways you mentioned above.

Paladin is where things get rough. Retribution isn't viable in traditional forms, shockadin is being tested right now to my knowledge and Prot runs into the mana issue and gearing for them didn't really exist in Vanilla. However for leveling Prot paladins are super strong.

maapaa · #3 » Post by **maapaa** » 14 Jul 2015 02:21

Sounds to me like paladins are still where they used to be... back in vanilla, shite..

Oh well, guess its warriors all the way then?
How do warriors do vs frost mages and locks.. as arent the hps and dmg of spell casters buffed, especially in pvp? with talents etc

#4 » Post by **Huggies** » 14 Jul 2015 12:13

I've seen a few rets do some good dps. You just do not get all the tools you need to play proper ret. You have to think outside the box and try something different, what that is I don't know, I don't play a pally. With that being said play what you want because eventually you will get them(Crusader Strike,Divine Storm). As long as you are a decent person, I would have no problem raiding with a ret in vanilla content(but no pally on horde so soz!). Protection just doesn't have gear for it after MC.

#5 » Post by **.Felix** » 15 Jul 2015 02:47

Big issue for Ret is Crusader strike isn't there, and the reworked wrath Seal of Command no longer makes the big slow heavy hitting weapons as effective as they would be in straight vanilla - I actually wonder if the fast weapon w/ stacking +spell-power flavour ret would work here?

Prot pallis are MUCH better than they would be in proper 1.X vanilla (Actual taunt, yay!) and just like retail wrath they are better suited to AoE/Trash tanking than single target. Mana is the big issue really, with Spiritual Attunement just out of reach I think "stance dancing" with seals than you would have normally on retail will be needed?

#6 » Post by **Tomdeprimal** » 16 Jul 2015 23:25

I don't get why we (hybrids) would want to play on a 3.3.5 server if we can't get the (tbc/wotlk) talents that make certain specs viable - like retribution paladin for instance. Why not allow 41 tier-talents, ie. crusader strike?

The vanilla "feel" is kinda gone anyway, in my opinion. And to be honest, the 'progression feature' was only interesting to me because I thought it meant that shadowpriests, tankdruid/boomkin and ret/prot pally would be viable specs also in the 'level 60 period'. (Sure, they may be better off now, than in vanilla, but that doesn't really matter if they're still shit).

To be honest, being able to use wotlk/tbc talents during 'vanilla' was what I was looking for when I joined this server.

Why not allow talents below 31 points?

Anyone else with thoughts on this?

#7 » Post by **Roel** » 16 Jul 2015 23:33

We're already having enough trouble buffing the raids in an enjoyable way, buffing the classes with those talents would make that even worse. Unless you want us to change the 40 man raids into 10 man raids...

#8 » Post by **Doublespoons** » 17 Jul 2015 02:41

Paladins might not top meters, but every spec is definitely viable.

Retribution gives 3% damage and 3% crit to a raid. The ret damage is really really weird but you have to understand this is 3.3.5a so slotting in spellpower like T2 could give them a better chance at dps. Will they be top meters? No, but at least 1 will be needed in a raid setting for 40mans. We have a Ret paladin who on Shazzrah or w/e sat and use used Exorcism and did about the same dps as he was doing just using his regular rotation. Paladin SoC is modified by weapon speed, but everything else is modified by spell power. Since Ret isnt doing great damage, you can also use Paladins as some weird support class able to take Blessing of Sanctuary for a 3% damage reduction on tanks and Divine Sacrifice for raid damage. http://rpgworld.altervista.org/335/pala ... 0000000000

Shockadin could be something that works, idk someone try this and tell me. http://rpgworld.altervista.org/335/pala ... 0000000000
This talent spec can be tweaked for a little more damage, i just picked up things like Vindication since you'll be in melee and need to throw down Consecration, Judgement, and Seal of Wisdom since i'm sure you'll go Oom.

Protection however is jacked. For levelling and lvl 60 dungeon farming they're great, but in a raid setting is where it gets tricky. As said in http://www.primalwow.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=15763 if Prot were able to slot 3peice of Warrior T1 this would give them more of an option on gear. This way def cap could be reachable and still allow Paladins to slot Spell Power gear. Without Touch by the Light talent paladins will have issues with threat. With a decent amount of spell power ensures paladins can hold threat on bosses. You have to play this and think about TBC paladin 2.0 tanking. Paladins had to slot in a mixture of "Warrior" tanking loot to hit Def caps, while slotting spellpower "Paladin" gear for threat. My only issue with allowing the removal of class restrictions on Teir would be imbalances in other classes. For instance, 1.0 ATS on Feral druids using Rogue T2 Bloodfang with the 8Peice proc. The proc does specify "The Rogue" so I'm not sure if it would even work, but that's something our Devs will know. I think it could be a fun solution instead of what is now a big "Fu" to the whole spec.

#9 » Post by **bamfer123** » 17 Jul 2015 02:54

Just have to tough it out until ret is useful I guess

#10 » Post by **azreal313** » 17 Jul 2015 03:03

bamfer123 wrote:Just have to tough it out until ret is useful I guess

Did you even read what the guy above you posted..?

#11 » Post by **bamfer123** » 17 Jul 2015 03:40

That's not useful that's just scenario's in which they can be used, any holy paladin can spec into giving the raid 3% crit on Judge or sanc if needed, and bringing a ret for the 3% raid damage increase over any other dps class is stupid .

#12 » Post by **Doublespoons** » 17 Jul 2015 04:05

10 heals 3 tanks in MC with 27 dps. 3% damage and 27 dps= 81% damage. It stacks quick, it's not so miniscule. Not to mention the actual dps they'll bring added. Carapace was our only ret paladin yesterday and he was pulling 350ish dps. Mind you he also hit 60 1 day prior and had almost 0 gear. With pre-raid BiS he could probably hit 500dps + the 81% he'd bring the the table.

#13 » Post by **bamfer123** » 17 Jul 2015 04:28

I'm all for ret being useful in the raids double, farmed wep and some pieces already, but that's again one ret per raid?

#14 » Post by **Doublespoons** » 17 Jul 2015 04:56

Yeah unfortunatly 1 ret is prob enough

( We cant tell for sure. No telling how gear will enhance ret though.

#15 » Post by **phobossion** » 20 Jul 2015 20:53

Doublespoons wrote:10 heals 3 tanks in MC with 27 dps. 3% damage and 27 dps= 81% damage. It stacks quick, it's not so miniscule. Not to mention the actual dps they'll bring added. Carapace was our only ret paladin yesterday and he was pulling 350ish dps. Mind you he also hit 60 1 day prior and had almost 0 gear. With pre-raid BiS he could probably hit 500dps + the 81% he'd bring the the table.

Not to nitpick, but 3% is just 3% regardless of how many people if affects

For example, two guys doing 100dps each will be doing 206dps together with the buff (3% more), not 212dps (6% more)

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