Unholy tanking

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MusicianMan
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Unholy tanking

#1 » Post by MusicianMan » 23 Jan 2016 21:35

It's been a while since I've played a death knight at all, but I distinctly remember easily tanking as UH when WOTLK was live. I'm definitely having a much harder time this go around, and I'm not sure if it's me or this particular patch. Anyone else currently UH tanking or have done so on this server that I could ask questions? Thanks.

-MM

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Rascall
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Re: Unholy tanking

#2 » Post by Rascall » 24 Jan 2016 01:05

I am UH tank (actually i play all dk tank specs, experimented with a few variations too). With spell hit cap and expertise (unlike UH dps, UH tank should cap expertise to land runic strike etc) you should not have aggro issues. Apart from that I don´t see a reason why the spec should not work. Improved anti-magic shell, anti-magic zone is pretty cool thing and with a lot of avoidance you can keep Bone Shield (4 bones with glyph) almost constantly giving u 20% reduced dmg.

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Relina
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Re: Unholy tanking

#3 » Post by Relina » 24 Jan 2016 09:23

Rascall wrote:With spell hit cap and expertise (unlike UH dps, UH tank should cap expertise to land runic strike etc) you should not have aggro issues.
Just an FYI Rune Strike cannot be dodged, blocked or parried.
MusicianMan wrote:It's been a while since I've played a death knight at all, but I distinctly remember easily tanking as UH when WOTLK was live. I'm definitely having a much harder time this go around, and I'm not sure if it's me or this particular patch. Anyone else currently UH tanking or have done so on this server that I could ask questions? Thanks.

-MM
Care to list what exactly the points are that trouble you as an UH tank ?
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Rascall
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Re: Unholy tanking

#4 » Post by Rascall » 24 Jan 2016 11:05

Just an FYI Rune Strike cannot be dodged, blocked or parried.
Ah ye, sry I forgot. Let´say Death Strike then for self-healing.

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MusicianMan
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Re: Unholy tanking

#5 » Post by MusicianMan » 25 Jan 2016 04:08

Relina wrote:Care to list what exactly the points are that trouble you as an UH tank ?
Mostly just agro issues, although that was mostly in the early 60's. I just thought I remember it being easier the last time I did this.

One issue I'm having is trying to get my diseases spread around and get off a blood boil or death and decay and actually generate some threat before everyone else starts hitting them. Not normally an issue with single or 2-target pulls, but anything 3 or more is troublesome.

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Relina
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Re: Unholy tanking

#6 » Post by Relina » 25 Jan 2016 04:24

Sound more like trigger happy dps AoEing before you have established any AoE threat.

Though this might help:
Open any 3+pack pull with a DnD at range so that mobs have to run through it to reach you and if possible are still standing in it when they reach you ;)
That should give you some breathing room while you IT > Pest > Blood Boil(thankfully it only needs 1 active Disease to deal full damage).
Last edited by Relina on 25 Jan 2016 04:51, edited 1 time in total.
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MusicianMan
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Re: Unholy tanking

#7 » Post by MusicianMan » 25 Jan 2016 04:39

Ok, I'll give that a try.

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Rascall
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Re: Unholy tanking

#8 » Post by Rascall » 25 Jan 2016 11:13

Starting from a distance with DnD seems best option. Then it´s up to you how much time you have before dpsers overaggro you, either apply one disease or two and spread them and spam blood boils. Also, as UH tank u might want to get Corpse Explosion it helps on aoe. + Rune Strike queued all the time should do the job. Make sure you are spell hit capped 17% (16 as a draenei + 3% comes from virulence talent in UH tree, take that into account)

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Fastor
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Re: Unholy tanking

#9 » Post by Fastor » 25 Jan 2016 11:33

Rascall wrote: Make sure you are spell hit capped 17% (16 as a draenei + 3% comes from virulence talent in UH tree, take that into account)
And if lack of that, hope that Spriest and Bdudu are there to increase another 3% hit rating with Misery and Improved Faerie Fire

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Relina
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Re: Unholy tanking

#10 » Post by Relina » 25 Jan 2016 13:44

Hit caps at level 80:

VS Raid Boss
===========
Spell-hit cap(with Heroic Presence) = 17(16)% or 446(420) rating - 3%(Virulence) = 14(13)% or 368(342)rating -3%(Misery/Improved Faerie Fire) = 9(8)% or 289(263)rating

Melee specials cap(with Heroic Presence) = 8(7)% or 263(230) rating
Melee specials cap while Dual-wielding one handed weapons and 3/3 Nerves of Cold Steel talented(with Heroic Presence)= 5(4)% or 164(132) rating

VS trash mobs or RHC Boss the highest of which would be level 82:
===================================================
Spell-hit cap(with Heroic Presence)= 6(5)% or 158(132) rating -3%(Virulence) = 3(2)% or 79(53) rating

Melee specials cap(with Heroic Presence) = 6(5)% or 197(164) rating
Melee specials cap while Dual-wielding one handed weapons and 3/3 Nerves of Cold Steel talented(with Heroic Presence)= 2(1)% or 66(33) rating

P.S: Keep in mind that any hit % bonus from talents/racials/buffs do not show up on character sheet.
P.P.S: I included the dual-wielding caps just to be thorough even though as UH tank you won't need em but it never hurts to have the info :P
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Rascall
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Re: Unholy tanking

#11 » Post by Rascall » 25 Jan 2016 14:11

Also for aggro issues u might consider glyph of rune strike (+10% crit chance on it) and glyph of DnD (+20% dmg, the same is provided by tier10 set i believe) and glyph of icy touch (frost fever dot +20% dmg). Or if it is possible link us your talent build so we may propose any modifications if needed. But from my personal experience I never needed some of these so I invested into defensive glyphs.

P.S. I´m actually glad to see more people going into non-mainstream specs as I thought there were like 2-3 UH tanks max.

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Relina
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Re: Unholy tanking

#12 » Post by Relina » 25 Jan 2016 14:50

Major Glyph choices are: Bone Shield, Icy Touch, Rune Strike, Death and Decay and Disease with Dark Command and Anti-Magic Shell(openwow seems to show 2000 seconds, but that is wrong the increase is only 2 seconds) being situationally useful.

My Recommendations:
For Single Target: Bone Shield + Icy Touch + Rune Strike
For AoE: Death and Decay + Icy Touch + Disease
Ofc these are not set in stone and can be changed around or swapped as needed or to suit your playstyle.

As for Minor Glyphs: Blood Tap(can be dropped if you have tier10 4set bonus active) > Horn of Winter > Raise Dead / Pestilence(mostly used in AoE builds).
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MusicianMan
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Re: Unholy tanking

#13 » Post by MusicianMan » 25 Jan 2016 22:15

I appreciate all the help guys. This is the spec I'm currently using, I know it's not the best, and I'm trying new things. Currently level 68 and going.

http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#j0hZ0xZcg0Ixc0gchz0ucq

I currently don't have glyphs, but I am getting them soon, and I'll keep your suggestions in mind. Aggro is getting better and it's easier to hold it, but still some issues occasionally when I'm running with DPS 5+ levels higher than me, but that's reasonable.

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Rascall
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Re: Unholy tanking

#14 » Post by Rascall » 25 Jan 2016 22:18

there is one more minor glyph that could be useful for UH that is for increased range of corpse explosion that I would use instead of Horn of Winter (since its expected you or any other dk in raid would use horn at least once per 2 minutes thus keeping the buff)

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Rascall
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Re: Unholy tanking

#15 » Post by Rascall » 25 Jan 2016 22:55

Well, with your level I believe the problem might be gear that is missing hit and expertise caps. It will get better and better once u reach 80. Regarding your build I would personally avoid Scourge Strike and use Death Strike instead of it. And feel free to try Corpse Explosion, it consumes runic power so while spending runes on blood boil u can spend RP on explosions (instead of coil that hits only 1 target). I´m not that sure about Necrosis talent since autoattacks are not the main aggro-generator. I would use Vicious Stikes (6% more crit chance on tank might be better). I took also Improved UH presence since movement speed is of essence on several encounters. Rest is pretty good picked. Also, I don´t see why some dk tanks use Epidemic talent or Glyph of Disease to refresh dots since as tank you should spam icy touch as much as possible as your aggro generator (avoiding using IT with only disease refreshing seems to generate less aggro in my view). The case is ofc different for dps specs where Glyph of Diseases is a must have. Anyways, get glyphs regardless of your level. You should see some difference. Also you might want to macro key abilities with Runic Strike so its used on auto bases.

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