Whats going on with our server?

#1 » Post by **oooooooooolde** » 20 Aug 2017 22:15

Hello

Long time primal-player here

I usually don't go and complain on the forum, but recently the server stability issues have been a big let down. In vanilla we had good scripting, great stability and something to look forward to (TBC). Nowadays we got neither of those.

Crashes happens frequently and ALWAYS during prime EU raidtime. This makes raiding very unpleasant to the point where a bunch of people either are thinking of quitting or already have quit the server - including myself, my co-officers and a lot of my guild-members. The population is dwindling and it's understandable why.

We peaked 700 people on TBC launch night, we managed to sustain 4-500 for a few weeks, but the quality and uptime was in such a bad state that most of the hype just vanished. You recently said that the hardware got updated - but we're still crashing primetime.

I've been one of the biggest advertisers for this server, but I honestly don't have anything to advertise the server with. How does low-population, halfscripted-wrath/tbc server with frequent crashes during prime raid hours sound to you?

There's a few other present currently present which weren't issues in vanilla - like a lack of worldchat moderation, worse GM help, poor management decisions, which easily could be solved... but for some reason isn't.

We're in a sad state at the moment and I'd like to here some staff comment of this. It honestly feels like you're trying to kill the server off. I know you aren't... but it feels like it :(

-Juve

#2 » Post by **Eronox** » 20 Aug 2017 22:17

Well, it's because of Trinitycore theirselves.
Latest merges with them have caused some severe damage, my opinion based on what issues I found so far.

But since it's a community, I would hope to count that it'd be fixed faster than implemented

Most recent crash was due to a GM command not functioning, great huh?

#3 » Post by **Catacus** » 20 Aug 2017 22:20

Agree completely. It no longer feels like home and logging is almost painful now. I have loved this server for so long and met so many great friends here. Now I barely want to log to raid because I know it's going to crash half way through a kill or a boss will reset. It's so demoralising.

It hurts to see Primal like this.

Cata

#4 » Post by **Jiranthos** » 20 Aug 2017 22:49

You guys make it sound like we want to have the crashes, like we want to hear the complaints, like we are super lazy. It's just not that simple. Crashes are unexpected. And like Eronox pointed out - it's due to the upstream core, TrinityCore. Their fixes can conflict with ours sometimes. One day you just wake up and a command that always worked crashes the server for no apparent reason.
I remember how it was as a player, annoying to have to re-do long encounters. But there's nothing new I can say. I swear we care and I swear we are doing our best. It's annoying for both sides. We're doing what we can to stop it as fast as possible.
The only way to never ever (probably still sometimes) have crashes would to Freeze development and never change a single line of code again. This means no more fixes to existing bugs or updates to content. And I'm sure we don't want that.

#5 » Post by **rene** » 20 Aug 2017 23:28

Jiranthos wrote: ↑
20 Aug 2017 22:49
You guys make it sound like we want to have the crashes, like we want to hear the complaints, like we are super lazy. It's just not that simple. Crashes are unexpected. And like Eronox pointed out - it's due to the upstream core, TrinityCore. Their fixes can conflict with ours sometimes. One day you just wake up and a command that always worked crashes the server for no apparent reason.
I remember how it was as a player, annoying to have to re-do long encounters. But there's nothing new I can say. I swear we care and I swear we are doing our best. It's annoying for both sides. We're doing what we can to stop it as fast as possible.
The only way to never ever (probably still sometimes) have crashes would to Freeze development and never change a single line of code again. This means no more fixes to existing bugs or updates to content. And I'm sure we don't want that.

Ofc. u dont want the crashes but u guys can solve it by updating server from time to time like original retail. We can have some planned downtime and everyone would agree on that if its gonna fix things i dont know can u do it like that instead of upstream the core constantly. Plus i dont understand the reason going on new core since we are doing tbc bosses and you guys customizing everything by yourself, tuning bosses etc. because 3.3.5 client. what was the point of moving on the new core? if u are thinking about the future wrath of the lich king, there is still so much time for it and who knows what will happen at that time. and it might not be about update, it might crashing because some script not working and breaking the server like we had before in my old server when we r trying c'thun it was crashing server so no one didnt do c'thun until it fixed or the datacenter problems since u guys switched on another machine maybe it was not capable of handling the bandwith of 200 online i dont know that sound awkard tho. The devs left the server or something ? i see lots of things on r/wowservers about other servers that devs leaving etc. maybe u might recruit some of them.
Right now u guys need to take some action and solve this problem before losing more active players, Magtheridon trash took our 1 hour or something with assembling groups then we wiped couple times due to our player's mistakes and when it was looking like kill, Boss was around %20 and 1 ppl was dead server crashed. We lost our 3 hour for nothing. That happened on karazhan aswell like last week, everyone pissed and left the raid tonight. it just ending the fun of playing game and becoming painful to stay on this server if its gonna crash because of the core upstream like this, we r getting stress for nothing. And i know some of u guys are trying hard really but working hard not solving things always as u can see. Hoping to see some fixes soon about this situation.

#6 » Post by **Xenitron** » 21 Aug 2017 01:07

I have been playing since 2014 on TW and there were times when you couldn't do single boss in raid just because somebody started fixing something but guess what nobody started whining about it on forum that they will leave server like developers and GMs don't know it.Everybody was patient and waited for fixes because community there consisted of people who remained through all server merges and core changes and they knew staff is doing their best to fix stuff.

The real truth is that more popular servers is people tend to care less about bugs like they are blind or something I have seen that on other servers with 10x more population and guess what community service(staff) on every each one of them was worse 10x times too.

#7 » Post by **Catacus** » 21 Aug 2017 01:33

The issue seems to be communication. In Vanilla there would be warnings and/or explanations for what's happening. When you issued a ticket someone would respond and be polite. Mods would actually pay attention to the worldchat etc.

Since the new core I can understand there are a lot of difficulties and I know (as my partner is a programmer) that it's not as simple as pressing 123 and it's all done...but you have to communicate things with people.

Give us hope that things are changing and progressing for the better, not just silence or a flat response of no when we ticket you because loot bugged or a boss reset for no reason that we could help.

We aren't whiny little kids but when there are serious issues we have a right to voice concerns.

#8 » Post by **Thena** » 21 Aug 2017 01:58

I don't quite know what you've been exposed to in the past, but from what your telling me, I apologize if we've made you feel ignored.

Your concerns are well placed, and as always everyone has a right to their opinions and sharing them.

As I've talked to some in-game and through messages, I promise that we have people working on the issues and doing their best to implement fixes. I think a bit of understanding and empathy needs to be given to the situation from either side. Please do understand that our staff is based off volunteers who work tirelessly in their real lives as well as in trying to better the server.

We do our best with informing through our forums and discord, but as I said, most of our staff is being worked thin and prioritizing issues that need to be fixed. Patience is key, and I know that phrase has been thrown around lately, but honestly that is what it boils down to. It is hard to ask for it constantly, and I know that most of the player base have been extremely patient with us, but it needs to be understood that we are people just like you doing the best that we can.

#9 » Post by **kronic** » 21 Aug 2017 10:54

You have to understand there is an exodus on Primal that maybe doesn't show in the server stats. Every player in our guild knows more than a dozen people who have left in the last month, and more are leaving every week. Each server disconnect is another nail in the coffin so like Catacus said above, we aren't whiny kids, we are speaking now (arguably too late) because the thing we care about is dying faster than people are openly discussing.

#10 » Post by **Storm** » 21 Aug 2017 11:13

Hey Guys,

Having been in a raid affected by crashes/downtime i fully understand the frustrations currently.

To shed a little light on the core issues from my time working with the team and from my own understanding, they are in abit of a tricky spot.
Trinity Core updates somewhat frequently, every time they do the core gets updated to the newest build.

The problem is every build update seems to bring some kind of issue, so the devs are always just firefighting the latest crash when its discovered.

They could stop updating, but they lose all the fixes from trinity core which was part of the reason to update(Security and improvements).

They could update at a set time, but it will just group up the issues to fix, so the net result will be the same.

They could go back to the old core, but they lose everything from TBC launch onwards (a huge amount of work).

So, that leaves primal is abit of a sticky spot.

All i can say is, from having seen behind the scenes the team are really working hard on primal to make it stable and improve the current situation and they hate crashes as much as you guys do.

Just stick with them for now.

Storm/Itburns

#11 » Post by **kronic** » 21 Aug 2017 11:53

Should we be asking the question, do we trust trinity core updates?

#12 » Post by **Storm** » 21 Aug 2017 12:08

Depends what you define 'trust' as.

It could be just Primal it conflicts with its hard to tell. If you want to keep receving any benefits from it, you basically have to stay upto date with TC which means doing it anyway.

Storm/Itburns

#13 » Post by **MerelyASetback** » 21 Aug 2017 12:35

A good move from the staff then would be releasing the pros and cons evaluation of updating/keeping up with latest trinitycore versus branching off into a 'stable' 'dead' branch (like late vanilla primal was apparantly). Also taking into account the foreseen/expected/needed and now available dev time/skill.

I'm certain this professional staff team will have done an extensive in-depth analysis of the pros and cons that goes further than 'future updates are good'. :^)

Keep in mind that all foreseen short term instability issues have turned into long term instability issues, atleast from the customers pov.

We've gone from what seemingly was ripping off a bandaid and then applying some first aid now and then, to repeated multiple open leg fractures with long painful revalidations where Hugh Laurie is the actual surgeon.

Nyeriah · #14 » Post by **Nyeriah** » 21 Aug 2017 13:52

Storm couldn't have explained it better.

The time we had most stability was indeed during the vanilla Naxx times, at the time we spent 6 months without any updates from Trinity. At that point, we simply could not update it anymore (explained here viewtopic.php?f=115&t=37593&p=410184&hi ... es#p410184)

You can't simply evaluate it as "being good" to the server, or "being bad" to the server. Because it might make no sense to merge updates now when there's nothing interesting in the short term, but there might be in the future, and if you wish to have the fixes that may come in the far future, then you need to merge updates often or you end up falling behind quite fast.

And if you fall behind... then it becomes impossible to update again, and you need to go through that basically 1 year long process of reapplying fixes, that we are on at the moment.

#15 » Post by **Meladath** » 21 Aug 2017 14:10

Isn't this why almost every "successful" (warmane, nost etc) private server either has their own fork, or only applies trinitycore updates like once every few months? Sounds like complete development hell merging in fixes from a core like that so often, and will produce the effect it is indeed producing, an unstable environment where you are fighting new fires every other day.

EDIT: Especially when a lot of the bugs produced by the trinitycore commits themselves will be fixed later on down the line by other trinitycore commits!

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